Meet the Former Janitor Who Scrimped to Give $1,000 to Hillary Clinton

[werepossum]

So then y'all really don't need outsiders raining down on you guys with the tired stereotyping and attempts at inducing guilt for sins committed hundreds of years ago... That's handled internally if you will lol.

Seriously, how can the collective south ever move onwards and upwards with so much outside bullshit sent your way coupled with one foot figuratively in the past?

Oh, we do okay. Look at Charleston. One of the worst racially motivated terror killings in our history and no riots, just good people supporting each other. In Chattanooga the road lining the Naval Center shooting park is lined with flags and memorials. Southerners are just nicer.

 

[Jhhnn]

So then y'all really don't need outsiders raining down on you guys with the tired stereotyping and attempts at inducing guilt for sins committed hundreds of years ago... That's handled internally if you will lol.

Seriously, how can the collective south ever move onwards and upwards with so much outside bullshit sent your way coupled with one foot figuratively in the past?

They can start by condemning people who believe in the old ways & those who pander to them. Rand Paul comes to mind.

They can abandon displays of symbols they know have been used in the systematic suppression of black people back to the time of slavery.

They can quit glorifying the Civil War as something it wasn't & they can demand that their LEO lay off of racist enforcement tactics.

They could just say that the Civil War & Jim Crow were morally wrong, live accordingly, & get past all of it.

Fat Chance. Werepossum knows it better than I do.

 

[davmat787]

They can start by condemning people who believe in the old ways & those who pander to them. Rand Paul comes to mind.

They can abandon displays of symbols they know have been used in the systematic suppression of black people back to the time of slavery.

They can quit glorifying the Civil War as something it wasn't & they can demand that their LEO lay off of racist enforcement tactics.

They could just say that the Civil War & Jim Crow were morally wrong, live accordingly, & get past all of it.

Fat Chance. Werepossum knows it better than I do.

The suggestions you make won't happen as long as the south collectively feels the contempt and condescension constantly thrown at them from the rest of the country.

Basic psychology dictates that nearly any group or individual will resist change or self accountability when demanded by those who don't respect them or are a constant source of ridicule. This almost always leads to them digging in their heals and resisting.

This is why I've often said those constantly ridiculing the south and who seemingly have the biggest problem with them value the ability to hate and use them as a source for moral superiority far more than any change they falsely clamor for.

 

[werepossum]

The suggestions you make won't happen as long as the south collectively feels the contempt and condescension constantly thrown at them from the rest of the country.

Basic psychology dictates that nearly any group or individual will resist change or self accountability when demanded by those who don't respect them or are a constant source of ridicule. This almost always leads to them digging in their heals and resisting.

This is why I've often said those constantly ridiculing the south and who seemingly have the biggest problem with them value the ability to hate and use them as a source for moral superiority far more than any change they falsely clamor for.

But this is a circle: Southerners won't change because Northerners don't respect us and Northerners don't respect Southerners because we won't change. If something in the past is morally wrong - and Jim Crow as well as the reason behind the Confederacy were beyond any doubt morally wrong - then demanding respect before one drops support for that thing is simply foolish. Getting one's back up over being called out for something one knows is wrong is simply stupid and counterproductive.

Beyond that, demanding respect from anyone is foolish. Respect comes first from within. I want to live my life as someone I can respect. Others - most especially strangers - are free to respect me or not. Frankly, I could not care less unless it is due to a misunderstanding; then I will attempt to clear it up. I care less about being disrespected by strangers than about whether a random squirrel makes it safely across the road. People are under no particular onus to respect me, and depending upon their values I might even prefer that they not respect me. They are of course free to articulate their reasons for not respecting me, and I will evaluate those reasons and if I find them compelling, change my behavior. But demanding that people respect me is just a waste of my time.

 

[davmat787]

But this is a circle: Southerners won't change because Northerners don't respect us and Northerners don't respect Southerners because we won't change. If something in the past is morally wrong - and Jim Crow as well as the reason behind the Confederacy were beyond any doubt morally wrong - then demanding respect before one drops support for that thing is simply foolish. Getting one's back up over being called out for something one knows is wrong is simply stupid and counterproductive.

Beyond that, demanding respect from anyone is foolish. Respect comes first from within. I want to live my life as someone I can respect. Others - most especially strangers - are free to respect me or not. Frankly, I could not care less unless it is due to a misunderstanding; then I will attempt to clear it up. I care less about being disrespected by strangers than about whether a random squirrel makes it safely across the road. People are under no particular onus to respect me, and depending upon their values I might even prefer that they not respect me. They are of course free to articulate their reasons for not respecting me, and I will evaluate those reasons and if I find them compelling, change my behavior. But demanding that people respect me is just a waste of my time.

I will always defer to a southerners real life experiences and expertise before I insist I am right on any related subject.

I was more talking in general terms regarding people resisting demands from those who ridicule them.

Having exactly zero horses in this race it really surprises me just how much the collective guilt and near culpability heaped on today's south for sins hundreds of years old truly irritates and bothers me.

I fully admit I'm probably not understanding all the complexities of problems hundreds of years in the making and from afar no less, and thus not offering the most cogent argument on the subject lol.

 

[marincounty]

I will always defer to a southerners real life experiences and expertise before I insist I am right on any related subject.

I was more talking in general terms regarding people resisting demands from those who ridicule them.

Having exactly zero horses in this race it really surprises me just how much the collective guilt and near culpability heaped on today's south for sins hundreds of years old truly irritates and bothers me.

I fully admit I'm probably not understanding all the complexities of problems hundreds of years in the making and from afar no less, and thus not offering the most cogent argument on the subject lol.

Sins hundreds of years old? Then quit flying the flag of racism and treason. Quit trying to prevent black people from voting.
The North is pretty much over the civil war, we won, time for Southerners to get over it.
Put away the crosses and the battle flags, and quit inciting ridicule.
Northerners are not flying pictures of Sherman and driving around in their pickups.
Any ridicule the South gets is self-inflicted and deserved.

 

[MongGrel]

I've been living in the South myself 25 years now.

I actually used to vacation here long before that, my Grandparents moved here in 1969.

Anyone claiming the Civil War is relevant to anything these days is pathetic as some of the Rednecks promoting KKK crap even when I used to live in Indiana, you'd be surprised how many probably still running around up there.

It's all backwards bullshit from people too dumb to grow up IMHO.

There are ignorant people everywhere.

The thing that really scares me these days, is the ignorant people seem to have a growing base of supporters.

 

[werepossum]

I will always defer to a southerners real life experiences and expertise before I insist I am right on any related subject.

I was more talking in general terms regarding people resisting demands from those who ridicule them.

Having exactly zero horses in this race it really surprises me just how much the collective guilt and near culpability heaped on today's south for sins hundreds of years old truly irritates and bothers me.

I fully admit I'm probably not understanding all the complexities of problems hundreds of years in the making and from afar no less, and thus not offering the most cogent argument on the subject lol.

Nah, your argument is fine. It bugs me as well, but when we insist on flying the Confederacy's battle flag over government buildings and insisting that the Civil War was not about slavery, we should expect to get what we get.

I've been living in the South myself 25 years now.

I actually used to vacation here long before that, my Grandparents moved here in 1969.

Anyone claiming the Civil War is relevant to anything these days is pathetic as some of the Rednecks promoting KKK crap even when I used to live in Indiana, you'd be surprised how many probably still running around up there.

It's all backwards bullshit from people too dumb to grow up IMHO.

There are ignorant people everywhere.

The thing that really scares me these days, is the ignorant people seem to have a growing base of supporters.

I quite agree, but here we're talking about Jim Crow and Jim Crow was within my lifetime, albeit barely. How could I argue that systemic and systematic government discrimination within my lifetime has no effect on me and others?

 

[davmat787]

Nah, your argument is fine. It bugs me as well, but when we insist on flying the Confederacy's battle flag over government buildings and insisting that the Civil War was not about slavery, we should expect to get what we get.


I quite agree, but here we're talking about Jim Crow and Jim Crow was within my lifetime, albeit barely. How could I argue that systemic and systematic government discrimination within my lifetime has no effect on me and others?

I'm about to retire from the subject of how the south is stereotyped and disparaged by the rest of country and my reactions to that. Your welcome forum.

But first I just wish to reiterate my annoyance of just how monolithically the south is viewed. In your quoted text above you even used 'we' many times to imply a complete agreement, and thus culpability, of issues like the confederate flag and reasoning behind the civil war.

Am I wrong to assume that many or most southerners don't deny slavery's role in the War Of Northern Aggression? Hehe...

 

[werepossum]

I'm about to retire from the subject of how the south is stereotyped and disparaged by the rest of country and my reactions to that. Your welcome forum.

But first I just wish to reiterate my annoyance of just how monolithically the south is viewed. In your quoted text above you even used 'we' many times to imply a complete agreement, and thus culpability, of issues like the confederate flag and reasoning behind the civil war.

Am I wrong to assume that many or most southerners don't deny slavery's role in the War Of Northern Aggression? Hehe...

You are correct about the South being incorrectly seen as monolithic, but you would be surprised at how many people I have heard say that the Civil War was about states' rights. And I say "we" because I happily self-identify as a Southerner.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nah, your argument is fine. It bugs me as well, but when we insist on flying the Confederacy's battle flag over government buildings and insisting that the Civil War was not about slavery, we should expect to get what we get.


I quite agree, but here we're talking about Jim Crow and Jim Crow was within my lifetime, albeit barely. How could I argue that systemic and systematic government discrimination within my lifetime has no effect on me and others?

Thank you for that. Well said.

 

[davmat787]

You are correct about the South being incorrectly seen as monolithic, but you would be surprised at how many people I have heard say that the Civil War was about states' rights. And I say "we" because I happily self-identify as a Southerner.

Personally I would never use "we" in attaching ownership to an action or issue that I personally find repugnant or offensive. I'm guessing you don't sport a confederate flag when you drive your Challenger down to the studio to watch hee-haw filmed?

By using "we" I, and I think most people, would assume you meant so inclusively and thus participate in the attached action yourself. You're taking ownership as well in other words.

Now you provided disclaimers stating otherwise but I find it interesting none the less. Do you feel some responsibility for these issues at the root of the stereotypes even though you aren't personally participating? If so would you mind telling me why?

I would have assumed anyone not in favor of those things like the flying of the confederate flag would want to distance themselves as far as possible and not add any credence to the stereotype.

I am probably missing something or looking at the issue in black and white and not seeing all the shades of grey in between.

Unfortunately I don't think the south, regardless of any efforts from within, will be viewed any less negatively in my lifetime. For whatever reason so many people feel a pass exists to stereotyping the south but would never level equivalent venom elsewhere.

Look forward to your thoughts if you're interested but otherwise I'm out of juice for this subject. Many replies from many people have admittedly widened my view a bit which always appreciated.

 

[werepossum]

Personally I would never use "we" in attaching ownership to an action or issue that I personally find repugnant or offensive. I'm guessing you don't sport a confederate flag when you drive your Challenger down to the studio to watch hee-haw filmed?

By using "we" I, and I think most people, would assume you meant so inclusively and thus participate in the attached action yourself. You're taking ownership as well in other words.

Now you provided disclaimers stating otherwise but I find it interesting none the less. Do you feel some responsibility for these issues at the root of the stereotypes even though you aren't personally participating? If so would you mind telling me why?

I would have assumed anyone not in favor of those things like the flying of the confederate flag would want to distance themselves as far as possible and not add any credence to the stereotype.

I am probably missing something or looking at the issue in black and white and not seeing all the shades of grey in between.

Unfortunately I don't think the south, regardless of any efforts from within, will be viewed any less negatively in my lifetime. For whatever reason so many people feel a pass exists to stereotyping the south but would never level equivalent venom elsewhere.

Look forward to your thoughts if you're interested but otherwise I'm out of juice for this subject. Many replies from many people have admittedly widened my view a bit which always appreciated.

I had a battle flag license plate and an air horn that played Dixie when I was a teenager (amusingly, that was when I was a Democrat) so I have to take ownership. In that sense I perpetuated the problem before I really educated myself, so it wouldn't be honest for me to pretend to ride the high horse just because I know better now. When one begins to research all those non-slavery states's rights issues (thanks, bulletin board discussion groups!) one finds there isn't much meat on those bones. Thankfully I can admit when I am wrong, but that doesn't mean I haven't been part of the problem.

I love the South and Southerners, but only been one perfect man. Refusing to admit when one is wrong just makes one wrong twice. I completely agree with your statements about the hate directed toward the South (or any group proggies hate) but I can't pretend that it's all them and none of us. Like any person or group of people, we sometimes do stupid stuff.

 

[davmat787]

I had a battle flag license plate and an air horn that played Dixie when I was a teenager (amusingly, that was when I was a Democrat) so I have to take ownership. In that sense I perpetuated the problem before I really educated myself, so it wouldn't be honest for me to pretend to ride the high horse just because I know better now. When one begins to research all those non-slavery states's rights issues (thanks, bulletin board discussion groups!) one finds there isn't much meat on those bones. Thankfully I can admit when I am wrong, but that doesn't mean I haven't been part of the problem.

I love the South and Southerners, but only been one perfect man. Refusing to admit when one is wrong just makes one wrong twice. I completely agree with your statements about the hate directed toward the South (or any group proggies hate) but I can't pretend that it's all them and none of us. Like any person or group of people, we sometimes do stupid stuff.

Ok that makes a lot of sense and shows great integrity and character on your part.

Did you by chance also rock a mullet as a teenager too?

 

[werepossum]

Ok that makes a lot of sense and shows great integrity and character on your part.

Did you by chance also rock a mullet as a teenager too?

Lol Not an actual mullet, although I have had a ponytail and bangs so not that far off. Long hair is one thing I had to give up to move up. Not a lot of guys with ponytails are invited to buy into AEC engineering firms' management, although I had a ponytail as a project engineer in manufacturing. Incidentally at two different manufacturing companies I personally heard the owner ask "You didn't hire that n****r did you?" (80s Georgia, early 90s Tennessee.) I have heard the exact same sentiment expressed by people in Michigan as well. I think far too much is attributed to racism, but it still is a force in American society.