Medical insurance pays for End-of-Life consultations

[Fenixgoon]

It's far uglier when you never have a conversation about end of life care, which results in your 90 year old grandmother getting intubated and her ribs cracked before dying anyways because the default option is for all heroic measures to be taken.

this x10000000000000.

 

[boomerang]

Congratulations, you just described medical insurance. And your point was?

It wasn't to reel in simpleton's but it appears that may have been the result. At least in the short term.

 

[ivwshane]

So wait, are conservatives in favor of death panels now?

They don't know what the fuck they favor, they haven't received their talking points yet!

 

[OverVolt]

Death is over-medicalized by the way. I sure don't want to go in a hospital. Most people on resuscitation teams have DNR's themselves.

 

[Brainonska511]

I'm, with my loved ones, and have been, every step of the way, until death.

What I will not do, is give power to Government Hippos, and let them think they are doing it better than I.

They are not. They never will do it better than family.

-John

Nice strawman. A doctor having a conversation and letting a patient know what could lie ahead is hardly a government death panel deciding the fate of your loved ones.

 

[senseamp]

Looks like Conservatives think only rich people with private insurance should have end of life conversations with their doctor, not people on Medicare.

 

[werepossum]

I agree.

It is ugly.

But socializing medicine is not the answer.

Let life and death, and medicine happen.

But not with the beurorcacy of Government.

That's just extra pain on pain.

Dr.'s help people live, and die, and God Damn It, Government has NOTHING to do with it.

-John

I don't think it really involves the bureaucracy, except in the bureaucracy saying the conversation needs to happen. That's a good thing in my opinion as we all tend to not want to think about it, but not thinking about it means the default, which as CottonRabbit points out is heroic measures which tend to painfully and expensively keep us barely alive as long as possible.

 

[Matt1970]

So wait, are conservatives in favor of death panels now?

They don't know what the fuck they favor, they haven't received their talking points yet!

I thought the death panels didn't exist?

 

[kathi b]

I'm, with my loved ones, and have been, every step of the way, until death.

What I will not do, is give power to Government Hippos, and let them think they are doing it better than I.

They are not. They never will do it better than family.

-John

This is something I know well. My mom had a lawyer with her the entire time she was dying. But the docs still managed to kill her - constantly doing things they were legally forbidden to do.

Don't assume that any of those end-of-life directives will be followed. Even with lawyers right there my mom still got mistreated.

We're going to win the malpractice suits but it doesn't mean anything. Mom is still gone.

Warning - you can't fight the medical industry. You're going to die exactly the way the medicos say you will.

 

[Paul98]

Making people take personal responsibility for end of life decisions and saving the tax payers money. Sounds like something republicans should love.

 

[waggy]

This is a great idea. To many just don't take the time to talk about living wills.

 

[Victorian Gray]

It wasn't to reel in simpleton's but it appears that may have been the result. At least in the short term.

How does this not describe the way insurance companies work?

"So who determines when that last year starts? Who shoots the starting pistol? That determination must be made. Once the determination is made, the revenue stream for the medical community has then been reduced. How much of that can go on before repercussions are felt?

Medical care by its very nature is about treatment versus cures. A cure is a highly desirable scenario. A one time cost and the problem is corrected. Treatment however is a lengthy commitment. Costs spread out over potentially a very long period of time. Good? Bad? Depends on your perspective. It depends on if you are the recipient, the provider or are paying for it.

So the last year of grandma's life is going to be very expensive. How about the year before that? How about the premature baby? What's the cost of that and for what length of time? What is the return on the investment in that child? Ooh, that's a harsh way of looking at it, isn't it? Will it come to that? Who gets the cancer treatment that will extend life for on average five years but with somewhat debilitating side effects? It's five years. Who deserves it and who doesn't? Everyone? No one?

Starting off with grandma isn't all that difficult. Where does it end?"


You know damn well that this coverage is for people who, for example, are told one day, "this cancer? you've got a year, better start planning.". Or maybe it's " Sorry, you brain is turning to mush and you will be a vegetable in 18 months, better start planning", Or, "ya know, you're 82 years old, perhaps you should be planning for your 'end' somewhere down the road"

But no, you had to go the Palin route with the scary death panel implications. Yeah, Death Panels, what insurance companies do every single day.

This stuff? It's not Death Panels, it's here, you're now covered to see the specialists that you might need to to plan for the time you have left.

Anyone who presents it in the manner that you did is either a complete fool or completely dishonest.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I thought the death panels didn't exist?

Ask your insurance company about that. This isn't that.

 

[ivwshane]

I thought the death panels didn't exist?

Whoooosh!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why not? Hospice care is mostly end of life discussions with patient and family.

 

[Matthiasa]

Why should that surprise you when hospitals, physicians, etc are required to have all patients 65 and older to have some kind of advanced directive regarding this kind of stuff?

 

[boomerang]

How does this not describe the way insurance companies work?

You know damn well that this coverage is for people who, for example, are told one day, "this cancer? you've got a year, better start planning.". Or maybe it's " Sorry, you brain is turning to mush and you will be a vegetable in 18 months, better start planning", Or, "ya know, you're 82 years old, perhaps you should be planning for your 'end' somewhere down the road"

But no, you had to go the Palin route with the scary death panel implications. Yeah, Death Panels, what insurance companies do every single day.

This stuff? It's not Death Panels, it's here, you're now covered to see the specialists that you might need to to plan for the time you have left.

Anyone who presents it in the manner that you did is either a complete fool or completely dishonest.

My post was in regards to providing or withholding treatment. Read again the post I quoted before I responded. You've tried to conflate it with the first post about end of life consultations. Well as conversations do, this one, for myself and others took a different direction. If you don't like that, I could care less.

If my post described how insurance companies work, and BTW I would argue against that, how would it work with government controlled healthcare? Free treatment for any and all conditions for everyone? If you answer, you'll be willfully taking the discussion further in a direction that makes you uncomfortable. And just so you know, your answer is of no consequence to me. But somebody here might find it entertaining.

 

[Matt1970]

Whoooosh!

Ya sure pal.

 

[Victorian Gray]

My post was in regards to providing or withholding treatment. Read again the post I quoted before I responded. You've tried to conflate it with the first post about end of life consultations. Well as conversations do, this one, for myself and others took a different direction. If you don't like that, I could care less.

If my post described how insurance companies work, and BTW I would argue against that, how would it work with government controlled healthcare? Free treatment for any and all conditions for everyone? If you answer, you'll be willfully taking the discussion further in a direction that makes you uncomfortable. And just so you know, your answer is of no consequence to me. But somebody here might find it entertaining.

Ok, so it's being "completely dishonest" rather than being a "complete fool". Although I guess, in your case, the two could be combined.

As for the bolded, start here:

http://www.nhs.uk/Pages/HomePage.aspx

 

[Greenman]

This is a make believe issue. Everyone who is terminal talks to their doctor about it, if they can't their next of kin do. You discuss options, DNR orders, even who to call for finial arrangements.
I guess you could call your doctor a death panel if you really wanted too, but they respond better to "doctor", and they generally want to make your last days comfortable. That's a good thing, screaming, gurgling, and kicking may be heroic, but it ain't pleasant.

 

[Zorkorist]

Nice strawman. A doctor having a conversation and letting a patient know what could lie ahead is hardly a government death panel deciding the fate of your loved ones.

They are a figure of authority We're supposed to believe they have our best interests in mind, but when our interests are part of a socio-economic, decision, then it is EASY TO SEE HOW THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Don't even START to say that Obama Care, Socialistic Medicine, BEGINS to compare to family care, individual care.

Recognize it for what it is... socialized medicine.

The least common denominator.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

This is something I know well. My mom had a lawyer with her the entire time she was dying. But the docs still managed to kill her - constantly doing things they were legally forbidden to do.

Don't assume that any of those end-of-life directives will be followed. Even with lawyers right there my mom still got mistreated.

We're going to win the malpractice suits but it doesn't mean anything. Mom is still gone.

Warning - you can't fight the medical industry. You're going to die exactly the way the medicos say you will.

Kathi, this is so common, and more people need to be made aware of the malpractice by LAWYERS, that tell us common practice, and to protect ourselves from Government (see the connection here? Lawyers and Government) we need to do certain things. Legally. Then we are all good.

It's laughable.

Just like Socialized Health Care is laughable.

These people, (Government and Lawyers and Insurance Companies) are only there to STEAL your money.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Why not? Hospice care is mostly end of life discussions with patient and family.

Hospice Care is Death Discussion. They aren't discussing life, but death.

I guess we all know this, or should, but what most people don't know is that when you sign up for Hospice, your loved one dies quickly.

Any you don't have to sign up with Hospice.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Why should that surprise you when hospitals, physicians, etc are required to have all patients 65 and older to have some kind of advanced directive regarding this kind of stuff?

In a nursing home, they will not allow life saving devices like AED (Automated External Defibrillator.)

The reason is clear. The families would rather the person die.

-John