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Medical experts: Would a blood test show a difference between a bee sting and a snake bite?

Ichinisan

Ichinisan

Lifer
My dog had two marks on her face. I thought it was strange that she would be stung by bees in the middle of the winter, and certainly a snake bite would be far less-likely. My dog had been panting and drooling the night before Christmas Eve, so I was concerned for her health. After talking to the woman who owns the property, she said that there was an underground hive of yellow-jackets in the back yard, so I was somewhat certain that she was reacting to a few bee stings. When I came home later in the day (Christmas Eve), I found that the woman had taken my dog to the veterinarian, who had determined that it was a snake bite. The bill is overwhelming, especially after recent Christmas shopping.

When a veterinarian does a blood test, would snake venom be easily differentiated from bee venom? What type of toxins do these tests check for? What are the differences between a bee sting and a snake bite?
 
Considering that the venom in a poisonous snake would be different from that in a bee I find it quickly likely that it could be found in a blood test. I'd guess that this is how hospitals decide which treatment course to run for snake bite victims, if the snake can't be identified. I'm not an expert though 🙂

I was shocked to find that a common course of anti-venom treatment for a human being can run well into the 10s of thousands because the anti-venom is so freaking expensive. Your dog isn't as big as a human (although the amount of venom in the victim would be important obviously) but I'd not be surprised to hear that the treatment for it was pricey as hell. What did it run you?
 
The vet bill was $157.10

Physical Exam - Comprehensive
-$38.00
Complete Blood Count w/Retic count
-$30.00
Rimadyl Injection 36 - 50 lbs.
-$28.00
Gentamicin Injection
-$19.00
Rimadyl 100 mg per tablet
-$?
Dicural 136 mg
-$42.10

"Recheck in 7 days"
That means, more charges...and probably more meds.
I'm already in the black...I don't know what I'm going to do.

Strange thing: I just researched those meds, and none of them are anti-toxin. One is a pain reliever, and the other two are for microbial infections.

Back to my original question, would the test be based on the actual toxins present or the body's reaction to toxins? Is bee venom similar to snake venom?
 
Originally posted by: Ichinisan

I'm already in the black...I don't know what I'm going to do.
Click to expand...
The phrase you're looking for is "in the red." "In the black" would mean that you have money and no debt. As for what you're going to do: gift returns.
 
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
The vet bill was $157.10

Physical Exam - Comprehensive
-$38.00
Complete Blood Count w/Retic count
-$30.00
Rimadyl Injection 36 - 50 lbs.
-$28.00
Gentamicin Injection
-$19.00
Rimadyl 100 mg per tablet
-$?
Dicural 136 mg
-$42.10

"Recheck in 7 days"
That means, more charges...and probably more meds.
I'm already in the black...I don't know what I'm going to do.

Strange thing: I just researched those meds, and none of them are anti-toxin. One is a pain reliever, and the other two are for microbial infections.

Back to my original question, would the test be based on the actual toxins present or the body's reaction to toxins? Is bee venom similar to snake venom?
Click to expand...

Um, would you really have wanted to pay for anti-venom if you're already complaining for the current charges? Anti-venom are extremely expensive... most places certainly don't carry them unless there's a serious risk for it.
 
Just because it's a snake doesn't mean it's venomous. Are the two marks pronounced? Are the located close to each other? I would trust what the vet says cause he is the expert.
 
157 is expensive for vet care? I mean... typical shots, deworming, and spaying/neutering of a puppy cost far more than that. Is this the first time your dog has been to the vet?
 
Aside from a few very expensive tests, there's no simple way to determine if it's a snake bite vs a bee sting. It's pretty safe to say your dog wasn't tested for insect vs snake bite.

Unless the doc found a fang or the wounds were pretty obvious, it's unlikely it was a snake bite.

Your vet prescribed some antibiotics so an infection doesn't set in or get worse, whatever the wounds are from.

You can call the vet & find out what your dog's WBC (white blood cell count) was, an elevated WBC would suggest an infection already in progress.
 
The two lumps on her lip are close together, and do sort of resemble two fang marks. I believe that all snakes with fangs are poisonous, no? If it was a snake, it would have to be venomous to cause the drooling/panting reaction so soon after the bite.

So I guess this could possibly be either a snake bite or a few stings.

Scorpions are another possibility...do they ever sting repeatedly?

The vet bill seems affordable, but I still have to come back for another visit (possibly more). The dog has not had any kind of shots in the past. She was given to me and I'm a semi-naturalist. As of now, I have NO money to spare and I'm supporting my mother, older sister, and twin brother.

I was concerned about the medications that were given because I thought that an animal would surely die if it did not receive treatment for the poison...I guess not. Is brain damage a possibility?
 
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
The two lumps on her lip are close together, and do sort of resemble two fang marks. I believe that all snakes with fangs are poisonous, no? If it was a snake, it would have to be venomous to cause the drooling/panting reaction so soon after the bite.

So I guess this could possibly be either a snake bite or a few stings.

Scorpions are another possibility...do they ever sting repeatedly?

The vet bill seems affordable, but I still have to come back for another visit (possibly more). The dog has not had any kind of shots in the past. She was given to me and I'm a semi-naturalist. As of now, I have NO money to spare and I'm supporting my mother, older sister, and twin brother.

I was concerned about the medications that were given because I thought that an animal would surely die if it did not receive treatment for the poison...I guess not. Is brain damage a possibility?
Click to expand...


Not all snakes with fangs are poisonous. Pythons, for example, have a really nasty set of teeth.

Dave
 
Strange thing: I just researched those meds, and none of them are anti-toxin. One is a pain reliever, and the other two are for microbial infections. Back to my original question, would the test be based on the actual toxins present or the body's reaction to toxins? Is bee venom similar to snake venom?
Click to expand...
First, there is no readily available test to determine the type of venom in the United States. Serological/immunological studies can be performed for this purpose, but would be costly and not yield results timely enough to be valuable.

There is a 'rapid detection' test available in Australia, because there are four distinctly different classes of snake antivenom that require proper venom identification. In the United States, there are only two - one that is effective for all pit vipers and another for coral snake venom.

Antivenom is not always administered for snake bites, depending on the suspected severity of the envenomation and availability of the antivenom. In the case of antivenom, the cure can be worse than the disease. Severe reactions to antivenom are a known risk, resulting in anaphylactic shock and/or death.

On edit: I had to take back what I said about the course of treatment for snakebite. After further checking, it seems antihistamine, epinephrine, and steroids are given as prophylaxis, not to treat the snakebite, but to mitigate or counter the risk of anaphylactic reactions to the antivenom. If no antivenom is given, these meds would not normally be indicated.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
Anti-venin people, anti-venin 😛

If it's any consolation, vet bills are usually much more than that in my experience...
 
Anti-venin people, anti-venin
Click to expand...
Tell it to the world.

Anti-venom is used consistently throughout eMedicine, MedLine, MedScape, hundreds of biology and medical journal articles, even the manufacturer of Antivenin Crotalide Polyvalent, Wyeth-Ayerst, uses "antivenom" in their literature. CSL, Australia's principal producer of antivenom and venom detection kits, uses anti-venom.

Six of one...half-dozen of the other. 😛
 
Originally posted by: Mill
157 is expensive for vet care? I mean... typical shots, deworming, and spaying/neutering of a puppy cost far more than that. Is this the first time your dog has been to the vet?
Click to expand...

My brother is an bumpkin for not mentioning it, but the vet is requiring exactly that on the return visit. He mentioned hookworms, though I do not think our dog has worms. He mentioned that she will need the full suite of shots. He also said that we should go ahead and spay her plus the land lord is requiring this. This is the same vet that told me it would cost "anywhere between $200-$600 for the spay proceedure" and tried to console me by saying that they would probably try to charge me $2,000 if I asked the question in an Atlanta vet office. This is NOT going to be cheap.

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Aside from a few very expensive tests, there's no simple way to determine if it's a snake bite vs a bee sting. It's pretty safe to say your dog wasn't tested for insect vs snake bite.

Unless the doc found a fang or the wounds were pretty obvious, it's unlikely it was a snake bite.

Your vet prescribed some antibiotics so an infection doesn't set in or get worse, whatever the wounds are from.

You can call the vet & find out what your dog's WBC (white blood cell count) was, an elevated WBC would suggest an infection already in progress.
Click to expand...

I don't know why he didn't mention it, but no, it did not look like a snake bite. There were two blisters on her lip and the lip was swollen and a little stiff (May not have closed properly causing the drooling). Only after being told that it was a snake bite did I even consider the possibility that the two blisters were close enough to be induced by fangs.

"Swelling + blisters?" I thought. "Must be an insect sting." It's tough to google for, but Google showed me that a snake bite can cause blisters on a dog (Almost all search results revealed crap about dealing with dog bites vs snake bites vs spider and insect bites, etc). I now support the vet's conclusion although I still think he's pulling a "Mechanic Scam" on us where the repeated visits are concerned by telling us we need proceedures we do not require.
 
Vets can charge $20 ~ $60 per dog for a single deworming treatment you can buy for much less.

Drontal Allwormer for Dogs contains three different anthelmintic medications and is effective for every common type of parasitic worm and fluke; roundworms, tapeworms, hookworms, pinworms and whipworms (not effective for heartworms).

This 5-Tablet pack of Drontal for Medium Dogs will treat five 22lb dogs, ten 12lb dogs, or twenty 6lb dogs, for about $22.00 shipped. The tablets are scored so they can be halved or quartered. Very strong doses are usually well-tolerated in healthy animals, its hard to overdose on this stuff, so if you have a small dog, its not necessary to divide a tablet into eighths. 😛

Heartworms are treated with Ivermectin (e.g. HeartGard) or Revolution, but neither Ivermectin or Revolution is effective against the other worms/flukes mentioned above. HeartGard Plus is effective against hookworms and roundworms, but not tapeworms or whipworms.

Check with your local animal shelters (public and private) to see if they have discount vaccine, spay, and neuter clinics. Many county or city animal shelters subsidize this stuff.

That said, if you can afford it, pay the vet's normal prices. Vet school is nearly as expensive as medical school, and increasingly becoming every bit as expensive, not to mention the costs of starting a practice. But nobody wants to fork-over hundreds or thousands of dollars for their pet as they would their children. While some vets enjoy good incomes, most have trouble paying-off their school loans in a timely manner.
 
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
She was given to me and I'm a semi-naturalist.
Click to expand...

So in other words your a tight ass who doesnt want to take care of your animals. :disgust:

Course, if it was YOU who might DIE from worms and whatnot it would be a completely different story, your inhumane ass would be in the doctors office before you could say "HOLY HEARTWORM BATMAN!"

Get rid of the dog to someone with money to give it proper care.
 
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