[mecheye] Why I’m excited for Vulkan article

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Azix

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
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http://blog.mecheye.net/2015/12/why-im-excited-for-vulkan/

Interesting read.

What’s Vulkan

In order to program GPUs, we have a few APIs: Direct3D and OpenGL are the most popular ones, currently. OpenGL has the advantage of being implemented independently by most vendors, and is generally platform-agnostic. The OpenGL API and specification is managed by the standards organization Khronos. Note that in closed environments, you can find many others. Apple has Metal for their own set of PVR-based GPUs. In the game console space, Sony had libgcm on the PS3, GNM on the PS4, and Nintendo has the GX API for the Gamecube and Wii, and GX2 for the Wii U. Since it wasn’t expected that GPUs were swappable by consumers like on the PC platform, these APIs were extremely low-level.

OpenGL was originally started back in the mid-80s as a library called Graphics Layer, or “GL”, for SGI’s internal use on their own hardware and systems. They then released it as a product, “IRIS GL”, allowing customers to render graphics on SGI workstations. As a strategic move by SGI, SGI allowed third-parties to implement the API and opened up the specifications, transferring it from “IRIS GL” to “OpenGL”.

In the 30+ years since GL was started, computing has grown a lot, and OpenGL’s model has grown outdated. Vulkan is the first attempt at a cross-platform, vendor-neutral low-level graphics API. Low-level APIs are similar to what has been seen in the console space for close to a decade, offering higher levels of performance, but instead of tying itself to a GPU vendor, it allows any vendor to implement it for its own hardware.
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I could go on. NVIDIA has broken Chromium because it patched out the “localtime” function. The Dolphin project has hit bugs because having an executable named “Dolphin.exe”. We were told by an NVIDIA employee that there was a similar internal testing tool that used the API wrong, and they simply patched it up themselves. A very popular post briefly touched on “how much game developers get wrong” from an NVIDIA-biased perspective, but having talked to these developers, they’re often told to remove such calls for performance, or because it causes strange behavior because of driver heuristics. It’s common industry knowledge that most drivers ship with hand-compiled or optimized forms of shaders used in popular games as well.

You might have heard of tricks like “AZDO”, or “approaching zero driver overhead”. Basically, since game developers were asking for a slimmer, simpler OpenGL, NVIDIA added a number of extensions to their driver to support more modern GPU usage. The general consensus across the industry was a resounding sigh.

A major issue in shipping GLSL shaders in games is that since there is no conformance test suite for GLSL, different drivers accept different variants of GLSL. For a simple example, see page 85 Glyphy slides for examples of complex shaders in action.

NVIDIA has cemented themselves as the “king of video games” simply by having the most tricks. Since game developers optimize for NVIDIA first, they have an entire empire built around being dishonest. The general impression among most gamers is that Intel and AMD drivers are written by buffoons who don’t know how to program their way out of a paper bag. OpenGL is hard to get right, and NVIDIA has millions of lines of code invested in that. The Dolphin Project even concludes that NVIDIA’s OpenGL implementation is the only one to really work.

How does one get out of that?
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9

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
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A former Red Hat (now part of Khronos Group) employee is excited about the API that his former employer is backing?

Color me shocked.





That's a threadcrap.
Post to the topic or not at all.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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chimaxi83

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
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96Firebird said:
A former Red Hat (now part of Khronos Group) employee is excited about the API that his former employer is backing?

Color me shocked.
Click to expand...

Surprising, the thread starts off with a threadcrap.

What does some random guys former employer have to do with anything? As another random guy, I couldn't care less what my former employers do. Hell, I don't care what my current employer does either, if it doesn't affect our employment.

You're trying too hard.
 
N

nismotigerwvu

Golden Member
May 13, 2004
1,568
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Honestly I don't care who it comes from. If a free piece of software makes my existing hardware perform better all while making development a bit easier for devs that sounds like a homerun.
 
R

richaron

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,357
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chimaxi83 said:
Surprising, the thread starts off with a threadcrap.
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But it's not made by nV so you're all whinging/dreaming.

...Back in the real world; Mantle pushing DX12 and then opening up to Khronos has been the best thing for gaming in a long, long time. Once again we have a modern, open, high performing, platform independent API, which is also within reach of Devs (similar to DX12, which is the "alternative" anyway).

The only people hating this are truly lost in their fantasy worlds.
 
D

dacostafilipe

Senior member
Oct 10, 2013
797
297
136
richaron said:
Mantle pushing DX12 and then opening up to Khronos has been the best thing for gaming in a long, long time.
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Same here.

With Google now in the Khronos Board and using Vulkan as main API in future Android versions, this looks great!

I'm just sad that Apple does not want to use it officially, but I have hopes that nVIdia's Web drivers will support Vulkan.
 
T

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
2
26
96Firebird said:
A former Red Hat (now part of Khronos Group) employee is excited about the API that his former employer is backing?

Color me shocked.
Click to expand...

See, posts like this are why you're labeled as an Nvidia fanboy. What is even the point? I never see you make posts like this in threads where an Nvidia rep praises an Nvidia technology...

Also, why are Nvidia fanboys extra obsessed with "red v. green?" Is it just because your "side" is winning?




You do not get to call other members, fanboys.

Its considered a personal attack.

Please post to the topic or not at all.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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MajinCry

MajinCry

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2015
2,495
571
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The draw call efficiency alone should be cause for great excitement. Seeing as how Skyrim uses around ~3,500 draw calls, that being the general upper-limit for D3D9. If it had been made with these low-level APIs...Hoo-ee! Ya could fit in all the eye candy mods ya like, and still have juicy-high framerates.

I'm pumped. Gimme my open world sandboxes.


More on-topic: Are there devs that have pledged to use Vulkan? It'd be a damn shame if it's going to be largely ignored like OpenGL was; don't need Windows 10 for Vulkan after all
 
TheELF

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
4,027
753
126
richaron said:
But it's not made by nV so you're all whinging/dreaming.

...Back in the real world; Mantle pushing DX12 and then opening up to Khronos has been the best thing for gaming in a long, long time. Once again we have a modern, open, high performing, platform independent API, which is also within reach of Devs (similar to DX12, which is the "alternative" anyway).

The only people hating this are truly lost in their fantasy worlds.
Click to expand...

Will be,maybe...at some time in the future.Hopefully soon.
"we have a modern, open, high performing, platform independent API"
No we don't,not yet anyway,we have promise of some such.
"The only people hating this are truly lost in their fantasy worlds."
And the only people doing propaganda on something we know so little about ... are?
 
9

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,738
334
126
Techhog said:
See, posts like this are why you're labeled as an Nvidia fanboy. What is even the point? I never see you make posts like this in threads where an Nvidia rep praises an Nvidia technology...

Also, why are Nvidia fanboys extra obsessed with "red v. green?" Is it just because your "side" is winning?
Click to expand...

Uhh, where did I even mention any GPU vendor in my post? Please stop obsessing over me, it has gone beyond flattering to creepy... :eek:

Has anyone else noticed this blog poster is working for a company that sells a computer that runs on an open-source OS? It would be dumb not to talk up the only graphics API they will inevitably use, if that project gains any traction.
 
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sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
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I like this part:
But what you get in return is all that you got on the PS2, and in particular, you get something that hasn’t been possible on the PC so far: accountability. Since the layer is so thin, there’s no place for the driver vendor to cheat. The graphics performance of games is as much as what the developer puts into it. For once, the people gamers often blame — the game developer — will actually be at fault.
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So much for the execuses from the Oxide guys for nVidia's worse DX12 performance in comparision to DX11. They have just done it intentionally. :sneaky:
 
S

Snafuh

Member
Mar 16, 2015
115
0
16
sontin said:
I like this part:
So much for the execuses from the Oxide guys for nVidia's worse DX12 performance in comparision to DX11. They have just done it intentionally. :sneaky:
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I like this part in the Nvidia 355.60 driver release notes
Best gaming experience for the Ashes of the Singularity preview
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So Nvidia is lying about their driver optimizations? I don't know why people even discuss a preview/beta benchmark
 
T

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
2
26
Techhog said:
See, posts like this are why you're labeled as an Nvidia fanboy. What is even the point? I never see you make posts like this in threads where an Nvidia rep praises an Nvidia technology...

Also, why are Nvidia fanboys extra obsessed with "red v. green?" Is it just because your "side" is winning?




You do not get to call other members, fanboys.

Its considered a personal attack.

Please post to the topic or not at all.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
Click to expand...

And where is his infraction for thread crapping/derailment?




If you have an issue with the moderation make an MD thread.

You do not get to discuss moderation in the threads.




esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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T

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
2
26
96Firebird said:
Uhh, where did I even mention any GPU vendor in my post? Please stop obsessing over me, it has gone beyond flattering to creepy... :eek:

Has anyone else noticed this blog poster is working for a company that sells a computer that runs on an open-source OS? It would be dumb not to talk up the only graphics API they will inevitably use, if that project gains any traction.
Click to expand...

"red hat"

Also, nice serial thread crapping.

This is the third time I've replied to you in the past month or so, and I wouldn't have even read this if you hadn't lied in a report and post about me harassing you. This is also the last time I'm responding to you because you're really not worth anyone's time. Have a good day. :)





You continue to threadcrap, and to talk off topic after being issued a previous infraction.




esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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M

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
1
0
96Firebird said:
Please look up Red Hat.

He now works for a company that sells a "computer" running an open-source OS, and if they were ever to use a graphics API for gaming, Vulkan is their only choice.
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not that vulkan is limited to gaming but you do know that redhat pretty much only makes an enterprise level operating system, even fedora is enterprised focused. Rhel isn't quite cutting edge like ubuntu or bleeding edge like arch. your comments make no sense in any context.
 
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