Mechanic question - brakes

[pete6032]

So I took my '01 Civic to a mechanic and told him I was hearing a squeaking noise from the front driver side brake when I release the brake pedal. The mechanic told me that he looked at it and that the brake pads were worn and causing this noise. The recommendation was to replace the pads and rotors.

Now the funny part about this is that the mechanic also told me that he couldn't get the front driver side wheel to come off. He said his team tried to get the wheel off but it was not coming off, and they didn't want to apply any additional force for fear of stripping the wheel stud.

So my question is 1. how the hell did he determine that the pads/rotors need to be replaced if he couldn't get the wheel off?

Also when do rotors need to be replaced? Can't they just be resurfaced? I'm not having any problem with feeling a vibrating when I brake at all, so why would the rotors need replacing?

 

[T2urtle]

1. You can see the brake pads thru the wheels openings in most wheels.

2. Could he not get the lug nuts off or the wheel itself off. How good is this mechanic? I've seen MANY wheels STUCK to the hubs of the car. Where i needed to hammer the wheel a good amount of the time to get the wheel off the car. Nothing more then 5 minute of work at most.

3. Rotors can be resurfaced, but it all depends on the shop if they have a brake lathe. Back in the day every shop had them because it was a easy money maker, now a days some manufactuers frown upon resurfacing rotors and some are just cheap like 25-50$. If your pad still has material left on it, you MIGHT be able to get away with just pads and cutting the rotor. This one is normally a judgement call.


Seems like you dont trust this place very much, i would get a 2nd opinion at another place. A simple brake job is what it sounds like to me. So almost anyone can do this. A civic front brake job should be $100 or less in aftermarket parts ( 2 rotors and pads) and the rest is labor.

 

[MongGrel]

1. You can see the brake pads thru the wheels openings in most wheels.

2. Could he not get the lug nuts off or the wheel itself off. How good is this mechanic? I've seen MANY wheels STUCK to the hubs of the car. Where i needed to hammer the wheel a good amount of the time to get the wheel off the car. Nothing more then 5 minute of work at most.

3. Rotors can be resurfaced, but it all depends on the shop if they have a brake lathe. Back in the day every shop had them because it was a easy money maker, now a days some manufactuers frown upon resurfacing rotors and some are just cheap like 25-50$. If your pad still has material left on it, you MIGHT be able to get away with just pads and cutting the rotor. This one is normally a judgement call.


Seems like you dont trust this place very much, i would get a 2nd opinion at another place. A simple brake job is what it sounds like to me. So almost anyone can do this. A civic front brake job should be $100 or less in aftermarket parts ( 2 rotors and pads) and the rest is labor.

Everything he said.

I'd take it elsewhere and get a second opinion, doesn't cost you anything.

Sounds more like they had trouble getting a lug nut loose ???

Odd to me if ya got to that point a few hits with a dead blow hammer would take care of the stuck to hub thing.

Or should unless something really weird up.

 

[pete6032]

It was a lug they couldn't get off. I have steel wheels so not sure how much of the rotor could actually be seen without removing the wheel.

 

[T2urtle]

It was a lug they couldn't get off. I have steel wheels so not sure how much of the rotor could actually be seen without removing the wheel.

You also have a view of the rotor sometimes from the other side, when the car is lifted.

I'm going to assume that he most likely made a judgement call on the side that he could get off. Or maybe that shop's general practice is to replace pads/rotors at the same time always.

 

[pete6032]

Well I just took to a local place and they tried to get the lug off and it broke the stud in the process. The threads of the bolt and stud were not aligned when they got it off.

This is the second wheel stud I've had to replace on this car. Coincidentally the first stud replacement was also the front driver side. I wonder if it was the same stud that just broke. Wonder if the first time it was replaced if it was done incorrectly.

 

[T2urtle]

Most likely the last installer cross-threaded the lugs. Happens when noobs are messing with ur tires. Like rotation or installing them.
Replacing studs while doing brakes isn't much more work.

 

[pete6032]

Most likely the last installer cross-threaded the lugs. Happens when noobs are messing with ur tires. Like rotation or installing them.
Replacing studs while doing brakes isn't much more work.

Would they remove the wheel to do an alignment? I think the last place I went was a Goodyear a few months ago to get the alignment checked out.

 

[T2urtle]

Would they remove the wheel to do an alignment? I think the last place I went was a Goodyear a few months ago to get the alignment checked out.

Shouldn't need to. Wheel alignments are done with wheels on. So its doubtful.

 

[phucheneh]

No pulling wheels for alignments, except in rare instances, like changing out caster/camber bushings on Ford trucks.

I can tell you exactly what happened with regard to the OP. You went somewhere to have your brakes checked out. You had the type of noise that is very clearly associated with wear indicators (i.e. it needs new pads).

They could have just sold you brakes up front, but mechanics don't like service writers diagnosing cars, even if it's as simple as 'it needs pads.' And customers get upset when you come back and tell them that, well, actually, you need front AND rear pads, or the rotors are below discard and need to be replaced, ect, and the price jumps up a lot.

So they took a quick peek at it and gave you an estimate. Someone did actually try and pull the wheels, but you had a crossthreaded lug nut. They told you this and probably gave you a price on replacing one or more studs. Past that, I'll avoid personal commentary, but suffice it to say, I get the feeling they probably knew you weren't going to have the work done, so they had no reason to start snapping studs.

 

[Greenman]

1. You can see the brake pads thru the wheels openings in most wheels.

2. Could he not get the lug nuts off or the wheel itself off. How good is this mechanic? I've seen MANY wheels STUCK to the hubs of the car. Where i needed to hammer the wheel a good amount of the time to get the wheel off the car. Nothing more then 5 minute of work at most.

3. Rotors can be resurfaced, but it all depends on the shop if they have a brake lathe. Back in the day every shop had them because it was a easy money maker, now a days some manufactuers frown upon resurfacing rotors and some are just cheap like 25-50$. If your pad still has material left on it, you MIGHT be able to get away with just pads and cutting the rotor. This one is normally a judgement call.


Seems like you dont trust this place very much, i would get a 2nd opinion at another place. A simple brake job is what it sounds like to me. So almost anyone can do this. A civic front brake job should be $100 or less in aftermarket parts ( 2 rotors and pads) and the rest is labor.

Every rotor I've ever seen has a minimum thickness stamped on it. There is no "judgment call", it's within spec or not.

 

[T2urtle]

Every rotor I've ever seen has a minimum thickness stamped on it. There is no "judgment call", it's within spec or not.

I know that but I was referring to the guy making a judgment call on the wheel he can't remove. You can't really get a micrometer in with a splashsheild in the way.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

This is the second wheel stud I've had to replace on this car. Coincidentally the first stud replacement was also the front driver side. I wonder if it was the same stud that just broke. Wonder if the first time it was replaced if it was done incorrectly.

Tell your tire guy to stop running their air guns at 100lbs/ft + on your car. Some of them are too lazy to re-set their guns after working on a truck. Then they torque the living piss out of a little econo box lug nuts and strip the stud.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Rotors should typically be turned or replaced every so many miles... You can run your fingers across them and they sometimes will get rough spots or have variance in the thickness when pads are worn or you do hard braking... While the rotors are cool, run your finger over the metal and see if they feel uniform and smooth.

These days they're made much cheaper than they used to be....but a Civic's curb weight is light enough that it doesn't take as much braking force to slow it down as say a full size sedan.

I replace my own pads and rotors. I buy rotors from Autozone @ $25-30 each....and get lifetime duralast pads.... The last time I bought rotors (in the Fall), I picked them up using one of the Autozone 20% coupons.

It usually just takes 4 bolts to remove the calipurs and the rotors tap right off. It just requires a few jacks and some serious socket wrench torque to remove the bolts due to where they are.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So I took my '01 Civic to a mechanic and told him I was hearing a squeaking noise from the front driver side brake when I release the brake pedal. The mechanic told me that he looked at it and that the brake pads were worn and causing this noise. The recommendation was to replace the pads and rotors.

Now the funny part about this is that the mechanic also told me that he couldn't get the front driver side wheel to come off. He said his team tried to get the wheel off but it was not coming off, and they didn't want to apply any additional force for fear of stripping the wheel stud.

So my question is 1. how the hell did he determine that the pads/rotors need to be replaced if he couldn't get the wheel off?

Also when do rotors need to be replaced? Can't they just be resurfaced? I'm not having any problem with feeling a vibrating when I brake at all, so why would the rotors need replacing?

He could have taken the right front wheel off and looked at that side. Brake pads should always be replaced in pairs so if the right side was worn then the left side was surely worn as well. Rotors same thing.

Rotors need to be replaced when they no longer meet the minimum thickness spec for your particular car.

 

[hanoverphist]

Every rotor I've ever seen has a minimum thickness stamped on it. There is no "judgment call", it's within spec or not.

unless you have the lathe to turn the rotors, it is likely most cars are cheaper to replace rather than farm out the turning.

 

[JulesMaximus]

unless you have the lathe to turn the rotors, it is likely most cars are cheaper to replace rather than farm out the turning.

Most shops will turn rotors for a small fee that is much cheaper than new rotors are (assuming they aren't already too thin or borderline). I haven't had this done in a long time but last time I had rotors turned it was only like $10 per rotor if I brought them in. It only takes a few minutes.

 

[Fern]

unless you have the lathe to turn the rotors, it is likely most cars are cheaper to replace rather than farm out the turning.

Where I live I get the auto parts place (O'Reilly) to turn them. It's pretty cheap.

Fern

 

[BUTCH1]

Rotors should typically be turned or replaced every so many miles... You can run your fingers across them and they sometimes will get rough spots or have variance in the thickness when pads are worn or you do hard braking... While the rotors are cool, run your finger over the metal and see if they feel uniform and smooth.

These days they're made much cheaper than they used to be....but a Civic's curb weight is light enough that it doesn't take as much braking force to slow it down as say a full size sedan.

I replace my own pads and rotors. I buy rotors from Autozone @ $25-30 each....and get lifetime duralast pads.... The last time I bought rotors (in the Fall), I picked them up using one of the Autozone 20% coupons.

It usually just takes 4 bolts to remove the calipurs and the rotors tap right off. It just requires a few jacks and some serious socket wrench torque to remove the bolts due to where they are.

I've got 91K/9yrs on my original rotors, I just use a scotch-pad and scruff them up a bit when I'm installing new pads (I'm on my 3rd set) maybe I'm living on borrowed time LOL..

 

[Greenman]

unless you have the lathe to turn the rotors, it is likely most cars are cheaper to replace rather than farm out the turning.

$20 each at the machine shop 5 miles from me.
Though anymore I almost don't care as my truck devours front brakes. The last time I did new rotors and pads they lasted almost 10k. I used the best parts I could find, and on disassembly the wear was very even. I'm starting to think my rear brakes don't work at all.

 

[boomerang]

I've got 91K/9yrs on my original rotors, I just use a scotch-pad and scruff them up a bit when I'm installing new pads (I'm on my 3rd set) maybe I'm living on borrowed time LOL..

I think to some degree it depends on where you live. Here in the snow belt where the roads get salted the buildup of rust on the outer and inner circumferences of the rotors can get pretty severe. Often, the old pads have those ridges worn into them and new pads will be riding on two ridges of rust until everything seats in. Not good.

Also, improper torquing of lug nuts can warp a rotor after a few heat cycles. Some vehicles are more susceptible than others.

 

[BUTCH1]

I think to some degree it depends on where you live. Here in the snow belt where the roads get salted the buildup of rust on the outer and inner circumferences of the rotors can get pretty severe. Often, the old pads have those ridges worn into them and new pads will be riding on two ridges of rust until everything seats in. Not good.

Also, improper torquing of lug nuts can warp a rotor after a few heat cycles. Some vehicles are more susceptible than others.

True, I always check mine whenever I've had new tires or one repaired, also I learned (from a link in this forum) that the warpage is caused a lot by having to come to a screeching halt from high speed then keeping your foot firmly on the pedal, this causes the brake pad material to form a high spot on the rotor, if I have to stop in a hurry I'll put it in "park" for a bit until the pads (and rotors) have a chance to cool off.