mechanic didn't fix the problem... what're my options ?

[rh71]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I have a question.

Does your gas tank have a cap? the thing you take off when you fill up. Check there too, make sure it is sealing correctly. I had an old Mirage that had that problem.

Good call... I will make sure it is sealed securely, but out of habit on my own car, I always turn it until it makes that horrible noise meaning it can't/shouldn't go any further. I don't think there is a noise on this cap, but I will make sure it's tight. After all, it's about pressure, right?

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Garfang
If the Check Engine code indeed indicated low fuel pressure, the next logical thing to diagnose and replace would be the fuel pressure regulator. It's a mechanical device on the end of the fuel rail that bleeds off the excess pressure delivered by the fuel pump via a return line to the fuel tank.

Thanks for this info. I will ask them to check this next (at least make sure they have checked) if it happens again.

 

[rh71]

Reading this: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-injection2.htm ... am I insane in thinking it could be an ECU problem ?

It states:

When you step on the gas pedal, the throttle valve opens up more, letting in more air. The engine control unit (ECU, the computer that controls all of the electronic components on your engine) "sees" the throttle valve open and increases the fuel rate in anticipation of more air entering the engine. It is important to increase the fuel rate as soon as the throttle valve opens; otherwise, when the gas pedal is first pressed, there may be a hesitation as some air reaches the cylinders without enough fuel in it.

 

[Ornery]

You don't even want to know how many sending units, modules, valves, relays, and what-not are involved in making that thing work!

 

[Quixfire]

First, there is no such code as a "Low Fuel Pressure", it must have been a lean O2 code which could indicate a lack of fuel.

Secondly, if this mechanic didn't even test the fuel pressure, then he is just guessing at the problem.

Most mechanics when faced with a lean run condition or fuel system code will check the fuel pressure first, then finish the diagnosis if the fault wasn't found. Most likely what happened is he sold you a complete tune-up and when he change you fuel filter it increased the volume of fuel to the engine because the old one was clogged with dirt. Even if this fixed it for a couple of weeks, it doesn't fix the main problem with this condition. Fuel pumps wear out when force to push fuel though a dirty filter, after awhile the pump can no longer maintain the volume necessary to support the engine under load, hence first gear.

I recommend taking to a mechanic who will perform a pressure and volume test on the fuel system. Also let him know what was done before, it would be helpful in diagnosing the car correctly.

Good Luck

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
First, there is no such code as a "Low Fuel Pressure", it must have been a lean O2 code which could indicate a lack of fuel.

Secondly, if this mechanic didn't even test the fuel pressure, then he is just guessing at the problem.

Most mechanics when faced with a lean run condition or fuel system code will check the fuel pressure first, then finish the diagnosis if the fault wasn't found. Most likely what happened is he sold you a complete tune-up and when he change you fuel filter it increased the volume of fuel to the engine because the old one was clogged with dirt. Even if this fixed it for a couple of weeks, it doesn't fix the main problem with this condition. Fuel pumps wear out when force to push fuel though a dirty filter, after awhile the pump can no longer maintain the volume necessary to support the engine under load, hence first gear.

I recommend taking to a mechanic who will perform a pressure and volume test on the fuel system. Also let him know what was done before, it would be helpful in diagnosing the car correctly.

Good Luck

Thanks for the info. He never mentioned a tune-up; we simply asked for one since he mentioned to change the fuel filter first (and we knew a full-tune up was due anyway). I guess it was a bad gamble on our part... taking it to him in the first place. If it happens again, I will have to find someone willing to do that comprehensive test (according to other the opinions here) on the fuel pump for free first...

Someone on another board mentioned that Hondas are picky about not letting the tank run near Empty, and that's exactly what I did on 2 occasions (fuel light came on) around those weeks. Just FYI... in case you've never heard of that before.

 

[rh71]

Pep Boys tells me to bring it to a transmission place first now... before bringing it to them. Well I'll tell ya I don't trust independent places anymore because they may be less experienced. I don't think a transmission place would be worth the time... read on for why...

I wanted to say that the car is still sporadic at going above 2nd gear. Yesterday in 80F weather, it was fine for 2 minutes from engine start.. then it waivered again. Shutting the engine off, then turning it back on gave us a few more good minutes. Why does this happen ?!

Also, when in PARK with the engine on, revving it would not go past 2500RPM... sometimes not even above 1500RPM. Isn't this a sign of a fuel delivery problem and not a transmission problem (the car is in PARK) ?

 

[Ronstang]

There are codes for low fuel pressure on most computerized cars I have worked on. From your description of the symptoms it sounds to me like you need a new fuel pump. It is not a transmission, especially if the engine cutout happens while in neutral.

 

[The Stigenator]

i have to agree, its the fuel pump..

some of these mechanics dont know how to do anatical thinking.. i knew right after you mentioned the problem reappeared it was the fuel pump.

Anyway getitng the fuel pump replaced can be expensive..

 

[Ornery]

Wow, $100.00 and it's in the Gas tank. The pressure and volume from the pump can be tested easy enough, can't it?

 

[rh71]

Indeed the fuel pump is inside...

UNDER VEHICLE, CENTER, BELOW SEATING AREA, MOUNTED IN FUEL TANK

Anyone have any idea as to labor hours for this ?

 

[Ornery]

What a hassle! You'll have rusted straps and probably the retainer for the sending unit cover will be all corroded, and pretty hard to bust loose. If you have somebody else do it, they won't give you the part for a mere $100.00. *gulp...*

 

[rh71]

Would I likely need a new fuel tank also ?

 

[Thegonagle]

It's not a transmission problem.

It's either fuel/air or ignition related. It very well could be the fuel pump. So, did they test the pressure or not? If it is the pump, you're probably looking at $300-400.

Pep Boys and all other chains should be avoided, even if it means taking it to the dealership. You always want someone experienced and smart enough to diagnose the problem right, and then do a good job on the work. You usually avoid a lot of hassle when it gets fixed right the first time. Plus, now instead of Honda parts, you've got some POS generic wires, filters, cap, and rotor, that you paid for, and probably didn't need.

 

[syberscott]

Most likely you would not need a new tank. This is a case of 'don't look for a cheapo fuel pump'. Dealer fuel pumps are best and the most reliable. Most mechanics in town here will not use jobber pumps because of their high failure rate. This is not to say that you should go to the dealer, but just ask where the pump is coming from.
Take the car in with only about 10% fuel in the tank. Labour varies on part, where the pump is located in the tank. Some are in the back, so the tank only has to be dropped a little. Other pumps are right on top of the tank so the whole tank needs to be dropped out. you get the idea.

 

[rh71]

We brought it into the Honda dealer because on the phone, the guy seemed knowledgeable about it. He asked questions like do I hear a click or do I notice a fresh fuel smell and less fuel efficiency. I noticed the latter two (though I didn't think those symptoms were important enough to mention here, sorry)... so he had my faith, at the least. He says that it's a possible sparkplug misfire... meaning it's not running on all 4 cylinders. So we brought it in tonight (hobbling all the way there, no doubt...) and he'll let us know by morning. I told him we just got a tune-up with new plugs and wires, but he said it's possible the independent shop didn't actually replace the plugs... but only said they did. The receipt from the independent shop said 4 NGK plugs were put in. We'll see to that later. The wires do look brand new though.

Anyway, I'll be glad if that's all the problem was because it's much cheaper than a fuel pump fix which others say may run into the $300s+. I asked if it could be a fuel pump problem and he said he wouldn't rule it out until he checks for the spark plug problem first.

So I just wanted to update you guys on this first... before you go as nuts as I have.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: rh71
We brought it into the Honda dealer because on the phone, the guy seemed knowledgeable about it. He asked questions like do I hear a click or do I notice a fresh fuel smell and less fuel efficiency. I noticed the latter two (though I didn't think those symptoms were important enough to mention here, sorry)... so he had my faith, at the least. He says that it's a possible sparkplug misfire... meaning it's not running on all 4 cylinders. So we brought it in tonight (hobbling all the way there, no doubt...) and he'll let us know by morning. I told him we just got a tune-up with new plugs and wires, but he said it's possible the independent shop didn't actually replace the plugs... we'll see to that later.

I'll be glad if that's all the problem was because it's much cheaper than a fuel pump fix which others say may run into the $300s+. I asked if it could be a fuel pump problem and he said he wouldn't rule it out until he checks for the spark plug problem first.

So I just wanted to update you guys on this first... before you go as nuts as I have.

Hopefully they find the problem.

 

[rh71]

Heh, the guy from the dealer (different from the guy who thought it was the spark plugs) calls me back at 11pm (?!) just now when they should've closed at 9pm...

Need:
tranny $3k
o2 sensor $300 (check engine light revealed this)
shift cable $300

That's what they're saying... I don't know WTF is going on with this car anymore... it's only at 114k miles.

We bought it at $4500 in 1998... would you junk it and get back $100 at most for it ? What would you do ? We're so tired of throwing money into this car just to have more crap out...

 

[element]

Check engine light may have revealed an O2 sensor problem but that could be because the engine is running improper fuel mixture because the fuel pump could be failing. It wouldn't hurt to replace both the fuel pump and O2 sensor, but 300 sounds expensive for an O2 sensor. For example a typical O2 sensor I've seen (1 wire O2 sensor for GM vehicles) is 19.95 at most parts stores, and the labor is not all that intensive, just slightly harder to remove than a spark plug.

I don't know about the tranny problems though I can't diagnose that by the info given.

Good luck.

 

[rayray2]

So what did you end up doing with the car rh71?