MCSA / MCSE - starting classes tomorrow

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Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,403
1
0
Originally posted by: altonb1
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Wait, your company is paying for you to have a cram session? They want you to pass the tests, but they don't want you to *KNOW* the material? Whatthefvck?

Yeah, I read it and was like, "Great...another MCSE boot-camp guy that thinks he knows everything in the work force..."

Wow... judgemental much? I didn't get that from the OP at all.
 

SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
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This is why Certs are worthless becasue of people like you that will take advantage of this crap..
what do you think those tests are for?
to PROOVE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT..
Bootcamps are not for newbies.. I didnt cheat and use braindumps when I went and mine was 14 days of 12 hour days and 8 tests..

this is exactly what is ruining IT with paper certs..

Because of people like me? Why don't you tell that to the entire class... or for that matter EVERYONE who takes practice exams in these classes. You dumbass, it's not worthless if you take what you learn in class short notice and apply it to your job. It's not like I'm going around bragging about how smart I am now that I'm getting certified. And since you didn't take any practice tests, I'm sure you just crammed 5 3" books into the boot camp session and ACED all your exams. Aren't you just a genius. Care for a cookie?
 

LeadMagnet

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,348
0
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Originally posted by: CraigRT
Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
I did a 6 week (40hours/week) program for my MCSE back in 1994 (Windows 3.51) - it got me a job as a sysadmin. I would say it was worth it, but I have never bothered to maintain my cert, because companies want experiance and knowledge not paper.

Yes and no, a lot of places still require you having certain things, with experience meaning less than paper in some cases. Hurts for me, because I have more experience than anything else.. I am still considering getting my MCSE. Just takin' a 24 week program part time and getting it all done.


If I was looking for a job now - I wouln't even put i on my resume. I would leave the 2 years as a NT domain admin on the resume, but even that would be reduced in size to 2 sentances to save room for my SAN/WAN/NAS/CAS skills now.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
46
91
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
This is why Certs are worthless becasue of people like you that will take advantage of this crap..
what do you think those tests are for?
to PROOVE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT..
Bootcamps are not for newbies.. I didnt cheat and use braindumps when I went and mine was 14 days of 12 hour days and 8 tests..

this is exactly what is ruining IT with paper certs..

Because of people like me? Why don't you tell that to the entire class... or for that matter EVERYONE who takes practice exams in these classes. You dumbass, it's not worthless if you take what you learn in class short notice and apply it to your job. It's not like I'm going around bragging about how smart I am now that I'm getting certified. And since you didn't take any practice tests, I'm sure you just crammed 5 3" books into the boot camp session and ACED all your exams. Aren't you just a genius. Care for a cookie?

a braindump is not the same as a practice test. a braindump lists the exact questions from the tests with the answers so you can memorize them. a practice test would have questions similar to or different from the real test but would not have the exact question.
 

SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
81
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
This is why Certs are worthless becasue of people like you that will take advantage of this crap..
what do you think those tests are for?
to PROOVE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT..
Bootcamps are not for newbies.. I didnt cheat and use braindumps when I went and mine was 14 days of 12 hour days and 8 tests..

this is exactly what is ruining IT with paper certs..

Because of people like me? Why don't you tell that to the entire class... or for that matter EVERYONE who takes practice exams in these classes. You dumbass, it's not worthless if you take what you learn in class short notice and apply it to your job. It's not like I'm going around bragging about how smart I am now that I'm getting certified. And since you didn't take any practice tests, I'm sure you just crammed 5 3" books into the boot camp session and ACED all your exams. Aren't you just a genius. Care for a cookie?

a braindump is not the same as a practice test. a braindump lists the exact questions from the tests with the answers so you can memorize them. a practice test would have questions similar to or different from the real test but would not have the exact question.

Well, the practice test questions were bascially the same - only about 7 or 8 were different. So anyone could have memorized it and gotten them right with very little knowledge if they're good at studying. Still I put plenty of hours into it.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,301
0
0
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
This is why Certs are worthless becasue of people like you that will take advantage of this crap..
what do you think those tests are for?
to PROOVE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT..
Bootcamps are not for newbies.. I didnt cheat and use braindumps when I went and mine was 14 days of 12 hour days and 8 tests..

this is exactly what is ruining IT with paper certs..

Because of people like me? Why don't you tell that to the entire class... or for that matter EVERYONE who takes practice exams in these classes. You dumbass, it's not worthless if you take what you learn in class short notice and apply it to your job. It's not like I'm going around bragging about how smart I am now that I'm getting certified. And since you didn't take any practice tests, I'm sure you just crammed 5 3" books into the boot camp session and ACED all your exams. Aren't you just a genius. Care for a cookie?

a braindump is not the same as a practice test. a braindump lists the exact questions from the tests with the answers so you can memorize them. a practice test would have questions similar to or different from the real test but would not have the exact question.

Well, the practice test questions were bascially the same - only about 7 or 8 were different. So anyone could have memorized it and gotten them right with very little knowledge if they're good at studying. Still I put plenty of hours into it.

lol... lol and more lol...

I feel so bad for you putting all those hours to memorize test questions so you can become a paper cert..

good for you!

I went through 7 3 inch books in 14 days... as well as 8 transender CDs but I have 10 years in the field...
you are supposed to know the material or have a darn good working knoweldge before the class even starts...

You and your class and that POS wannabe ripoff artist of a school are all clueless IT newbs.. and they are way worse than you as they pass off thier school using padded stats on pass rates casue the damn instructors are giving you the answers to memorize..

great school why dont you post the name so we can send it to MS for review..

 

TreyRandom

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
3,346
0
76
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
This is why Certs are worthless becasue of people like you that will take advantage of this crap..
what do you think those tests are for?
to PROOVE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT..
Bootcamps are not for newbies.. I didnt cheat and use braindumps when I went and mine was 14 days of 12 hour days and 8 tests..

this is exactly what is ruining IT with paper certs..

Because of people like me? Why don't you tell that to the entire class... or for that matter EVERYONE who takes practice exams in these classes. You dumbass, it's not worthless if you take what you learn in class short notice and apply it to your job. It's not like I'm going around bragging about how smart I am now that I'm getting certified. And since you didn't take any practice tests, I'm sure you just crammed 5 3" books into the boot camp session and ACED all your exams. Aren't you just a genius. Care for a cookie?

a braindump is not the same as a practice test. a braindump lists the exact questions from the tests with the answers so you can memorize them. a practice test would have questions similar to or different from the real test but would not have the exact question.

Well, the practice test questions were bascially the same - only about 7 or 8 were different. So anyone could have memorized it and gotten them right with very little knowledge if they're good at studying. Still I put plenty of hours into it.

If the practice test questions were "basically the same", then it's not a practice test... it's a braindump... the ACTUAL questions from the exam. Using them is cheating, no matter how you want to justify it. If you don't think so, then tell me how it is different than stealing a professor's final exam and knowing what the content on that exam is ahead of time.

True practice exams are NOT the actual questions from the exam. However, the questions will be similar to those found on the exam, and will test you on the concepts found on the exam... but the questions are created from scratch... they are original. How do I know? I used to write for Transcender, a legitimate practice exam provider (I no longer do because Transcender decided to start outsourcing their writing to India and I got tired of editing horribly written content).
 

SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
81
If the practice test questions were "basically the same", then it's not a practice test... it's a braindump... the ACTUAL questions from the exam. Using them is cheating, no matter how you want to justify it. If you don't think so, then tell me how it is different than stealing a professor's final exam and knowing what the content on that exam is ahead of time.


It's different than stealing a professors final exam because we are not stealing. The "braindumps" or practice tests are given to us by the instructor himself, where we are encouraged to spend hours reviewing them. Yes, that is what our society has come to... but it doesn't make me dishonest because I choose to cram and study what my instructor encourages. Otherwise, I would only do well in the class taking the extended course due to the short time allotted to prepare for the exams.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,668
1
81
I need to get myself some certs. I have no certs, just a BS in MIS, but I'm stuck as a desktop support tech.
 

SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
81
Originally posted by: trmiv
I need to get myself some certs. I have no certs, just a BS in MIS, but I'm stuck as a desktop support tech.

Looks like you're in the same boat I'm in. A lot of jobs don't even consider hiring you unless you have a cert or two. Sure the BS helps and may get you an interview... but regardless of what you know, they want something more on paper assuring you do.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,301
0
0
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
If the practice test questions were "basically the same", then it's not a practice test... it's a braindump... the ACTUAL questions from the exam. Using them is cheating, no matter how you want to justify it. If you don't think so, then tell me how it is different than stealing a professor's final exam and knowing what the content on that exam is ahead of time.


It's different than stealing a professors final exam because we are not stealing. The "braindumps" or practice tests are given to us by the instructor himself, where we are encouraged to spend hours reviewing them. Yes, that is what our society has come to... but it doesn't make me dishonest because I choose to cram and study what my instructor encourages. Otherwise, I would only do well in the class taking the extended course due to the short time allotted to prepare for the exams.

Actually yes it does and if M$ were informed and they sent someoen to review the course and they are caught doign they will lose thier ability to be a test center and will not be able to be a certified MS training site..

Those questions and answers are confidential property of microsoft and what you are doing is underminign the entire MS certification system..

they prosecute those that are caught stealing test questions from test centers.

why dont you go ahead and post the school name...

Your instructor sounds like he prolly isnt even an MCT and hell if he was he prolly cheated for that too...

at least my course was 12 hours of real teaching and class labs etc.. teaching us the right way to do things.
we had to pass the tests from pure knowledge not dumps provided by the school..
 

TreyRandom

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
3,346
0
76
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
If the practice test questions were "basically the same", then it's not a practice test... it's a braindump... the ACTUAL questions from the exam. Using them is cheating, no matter how you want to justify it. If you don't think so, then tell me how it is different than stealing a professor's final exam and knowing what the content on that exam is ahead of time.


It's different than stealing a professors final exam because we are not stealing. The "braindumps" or practice tests are given to us by the instructor himself, where we are encouraged to spend hours reviewing them. Yes, that is what our society has come to... but it doesn't make me dishonest because I choose to cram and study what my instructor encourages. Otherwise, I would only do well in the class taking the extended course due to the short time allotted to prepare for the exams.

So it's OK for someone to steal the exam for you and then provide the questions to you, right? By the same logic, it's okay for you to buy (or be given) a car (or DVD player or computer or music or whatever) from someone who has stolen it, right?

I'm not saying you're dishonest - you didn't *initially* know that they were the exact test questions. But *now* that you know that they're braindumps (and make no mistake - if they're the exact test questions, your instructor is giving you braindumps)... what you do from this point forward says a lot about you, whether you personally think you're being dishonest or not. If you don't want to be cheating, stop using the materials your instructor is providing you. Better yet, stop attending the program and report them to Microsoft.

Perhaps your instructor truly doesn't know what he or she is using. But if Microsoft knew what your instructor was using, they'd decertify him in an instant. Take a look at the certification agreement online or whenever you take your next certification exam... braindumpers will have their certifications revoked and will be banned from acquiring future certifications. Not worth it, man. This is your career we're talkin' about here.

Make no mistake - Microsoft owns the copyright to these questions, and stealing them (by whomever) is a violation of copyright law and of their certification agreement. YOU didn't steal them... but you're using them, which puts you in violation of the copyright... and, potentially, liable to have your certification revoked should Microsoft discover you used them.
 

SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
81
So I guess I should go back to college, high school, middle school, elementary and so on... and just start all over again with all those teachers/professors who ever gave me any pre-tests or braindumps to prepare for an exam. Well damn, what a waste of my life. Thanks for the info. Guess I'll just be your average cheating paper cert. Signing off.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,301
0
0
what a winner we have here... man its no wonder the IT industry is so fvcked up with winners like this guy taking positions that real IT people deserve.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,335
1
81
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
So I guess I should go back to college, high school, middle school, elementary and so on... and just start all over again with all those teachers/professors who ever gave me any pre-tests or braindumps to prepare for an exam. Well damn, what a waste of my life. Thanks for the info. Guess I'll just be your average cheating paper cert. Signing off.

Your logic is extremely flawed.
 

SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
81
It's amazing how many of you guys make assumptions....

Ok, so I'm not quitting the class after taking my first exam. So that makes me the bad IT guy now because I'm not letting Microsoft know that my instructor is providing the class with practice tests. Give me a fvckin break. REAL IT people eh? So I don't qualify for a job that you'd probably qualify for CVSiN? Is that what you're saying? 90% of getting the job is personality alone anyway... so I'm sure I'd blow you out of the water on that. Sure, education and certs just put the icing on the cake. ATOT has become such a nerd gang-bang community now anyway that I don't know why I even listen to some of these bullshit reponses. The purpose of my original post was to find out what the course is like - yet I get ridiculous responses of those assuming that I'm just wanting to cheat. LOL @ you CVSiN suggesting that the entire IT industry is screwed up because of 1 post I make. That's real logic.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,335
1
81
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
It's amazing how many of you guys make assumptions....

Ok, so I'm not quitting the class after taking my first exam. So that makes me the bad IT guy now because I'm not letting Microsoft know that my instructor is providing the class with practice tests. Give me a fvckin break. REAL IT people eh? So I don't qualify for a job that you'd probably qualify for CVSiN? Is that what you're saying? 90% of getting the job is personality alone anyway... so I'm sure I'd blow you out of the water on that. Sure, education and certs just put the icing on the cake. ATOT has become such a nerd gang-bang community now anyway that I don't know why I even listen to some of these bullshit reponses. The purpose of my original post was to find out what the course is like - yet I get ridiculous responses of those assuming that I'm just wanting to cheat. LOL @ you CVSiN suggesting that the entire IT industry is screwed up because of 1 post I make. That's real logic.

Hit a nerve, huh?
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,335
1
81
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
Care to elaborate on why my logic is so flawed?

If a teacher gives you practice tests that may contain questions that are on the actual test, that's fine. It's the teacher's test, they're authorizing the use and reproduction of the questions for people in the class, and they're the ones giving you the passing grade.

Now what if a tutor came along, and told you that you didn't have to go to a single class, and that they could tutor you in cram sessions and guarantee you got the grade you wanted on them. He did this, because he broke into the teacher's office, stealing sealed tests from the teacher, and reproduced them without his permission. The teacher has never authorized these test to be released to anybody, and has collected the tests from his students. The only questions he gives as practice tests are similar to the actual tests, but not exact.

These braindumps/exam centers have absolutely NO right to reproduce or use the questions on Microsoft's certification exam. It's equivalent to stealing all of the teacher's tests and using them to acheive a passing grade without studying.
 

SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
81
#1 - I go to class everyday for 13+ hours a day
#2 - My instructor never broke into any office or stole info and he assures that the practice tests (uniprep) are suggested by Microsoft and very helpful in preparation
#3 - I've had many instructors/professors give out practice tests that reflected some of the exact answers on the tests, which brings me to my logic -
memorizing these test examples are a temporary solution to prove that you have the ability to retain information. Becoming a TRUE MCSA/MCSE does
not occur until many many months after taking the course after you've taken the information learned and applying it to everyday situations in a
corporate world.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,335
1
81
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
#1 - I go to class everyday for 13+ hours a day
#2 - My instructor never broke into any office or stole info and he assures that the practice tests (uniprep) are suggested by Microsoft and very helpful in preparation
#3 - I've had many instructors/professors give out practice tests that reflected some of the exact answers on the tests, which brings me to my logic -
memorizing these test examples are a temporary solution to prove that you have the ability to retain information. Becoming a TRUE MCSA/MCSE does
not occur until many many months after taking the course after you've taken the information learned and applying it to everyday situations in a
corporate world.

So 13 hours a day for 8 days qualifies you to have a certification that people spend months preparing for in order to pass the test and become certified? It justifies you having the cert compared to all the others that have worked with the software and concepts, and their implementations for months?

Also, a Certification is supposed to prove you understand the concepts behind the questions asked, and that you are knowledgable in the area. You practice, study, and work for many months BEFORE the exam and then take the certification, not after.

Simply put, if the questions are EXACTLY those that are on the tests, the company more than likely got them from a braindump. If they're similar, thats a whole different story. However, out of the entire test, you said that only 7 or 8 were different, which definitely suggests something highly unethical is taking place.

But justify it however you want. If you're comfortable with yourself in sacrificing your integretiy and ethics to get a cert, then by all means go for it.

By your logic, I should be able to get my CS degree by taking a bootcamp for a few months, and then afterwards actually learn the material?
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,335
1
81
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
LOL, at this point I'd love to get my paper cert and take one of these super-ego's jobs.

And get fired in a few weeks because you don't know jack sh!t.

Should I recommend my 16 year old neigher down the road to your company? He has a great personality, his CCNA, MCSE, and he'll work for much less than you. He can learn what those certs actually constist of while training for your job.
 

SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
81
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: SirChadwick
#1 - I go to class everyday for 13+ hours a day
#2 - My instructor never broke into any office or stole info and he assures that the practice tests (uniprep) are suggested by Microsoft and very helpful in preparation
#3 - I've had many instructors/professors give out practice tests that reflected some of the exact answers on the tests, which brings me to my logic -
memorizing these test examples are a temporary solution to prove that you have the ability to retain information. Becoming a TRUE MCSA/MCSE does
not occur until many many months after taking the course after you've taken the information learned and applying it to everyday situations in a
corporate world.

So 13 hours a day for 8 days qualifies you to have a certification that people spend months preparing for in order to pass the test and become certified? It justifies you having the cert compared to all the others that have worked with the software and concepts, and their implementations for months?

Also, a Certification is supposed to prove you understand the concepts behind the questions asked, and that you are knowledgable in the area. You practice, study, and work for many months BEFORE the exam and then take the certification, not after.

Simply put, if the questions are EXACTLY those that are on the tests, the company more than likely got them from a braindump. If they're similar, thats a whole different story. However, out of the entire test, you said that only 7 or 8 were different, which definitely suggests something highly unethical is taking place.

But justify it however you want. If you're comfortable with yourself in sacrificing your integretiy and ethics to get a cert, then by all means go for it.

By your logic, I should be able to get my CS degree by taking a bootcamp for a few months, and then afterwards actually learn the material?

Tell all of this to Microsoft and the schools that offer "boot camps". You think I wanted to take an 8 day course for certification? Hell no! My company insisted that I do so... and I didn't want to disappoint, so I agreed to. As for a college education, it's also overrated. I spent 5 years getting my BS in IT and a 2nd discipline in Admin of Justice and I've learned more my first 8 months at my job then I did in all my years in school.