I can read and I can add 2 + 2 so you didn't have to mention Paul considering your support for him is well known.
Oh, and all 4 of my grandparents are dead. Thanks though. Very classy.
I can read and I can add 2 + 2 so you didn't have to mention Paul considering your support for him is well known.
Oh, and all 4 of my grandparents are dead. Thanks though. Very classy.
What that we continuiously get half assed candidates every election cycle? I agree, that is a broken record that needs to be fixed.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
Even if you vote for the 'lesser evil', a phrase I don't find worthy of applying to our presidents because it demeans the value of calling someone evil, they are only in office 8 years, but the federal and SC judges they appoint are there for decades, so I take that very strongly into account.
Regardless if it is well known or not, I explicitly stated to vote for someone, ANYONE even your grandmother if you feel she is worthy. I'm glad you passed remedial math! :thumbsup:
How about your Mother? Father? Sister? Brother? Best friend? You have to know someone of better character than the clowns running.
thraashman
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 11,072
- 1,476
- 126
Um ... knowing that our military has murdered entire villages of innocent people and has no bad feelings about it makes me sleep a lot less peacefully. Our military has a history of doing deplorable things and then covering it up. How DARE you try to defend, even passingly, someone performing mass murder without conscience.
This is said over and over in *EVERY* election. Everyone is flawed thus there is no perfect candidate. There never will be.
Yep. Bush appointed conservatives and McCain has promised to continue in Bush's footsteps. I don't want to see the SC lean any more to the right.
We don't get half assed candidates. In a two party system we get people who must appeal to a broad cross section of America. Since few people actually encompass this exact same position every candidate will have policies you like and policies you don't. This doesn't make them half assed, this just doesn't make them your clone who happens to be running for office.
People like to run to the refuge of just saying "bah, I don't like any of them" because it helps absolve them of responsibility of actually acting to make things better.
People like to run to the refuge of just saying "bah, I don't like any of them" because it helps absolve them of responsibility of actually acting to make things better.
we should get judges who would rather uphold the integrity of the constitution than push a left or right agenda.
judges appointed by obama or mccain will be equally bad, because they will all be pushing for things that are equally wrong for different reasons.
Maybe you could give some examples as to what you think judges are currently doing that isn't upholding the constitution?
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 173
- 106
See bold.
Also, do not forget that the collective power of Congress is great. And know that (one of) their job(s) is to oversee the President and keep him in check.
That brings me to last point. When we (the US) really get off track, it's usually when one party holds both Congress and the Presidency. Congress seems far less interested in it's oversight duties (or less effective at them anyway) when the Prez is from their party. And the President seems far less interested in execising his veto power over Congress (runaway spending etc). After what happened in Bill Clinton's first term, and GWB's I think I'll likely always vote to make sure no one party controls both branches.
Wanna make a *protest vote*? Go ahead, but those people will be doing nothing to stop some of the likey problems I mention above. This thread is esentially an appeal to vote 3rd party, and my responses are an effort to explain why that's currently a bad idea.
Fern
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
So if a third party candidate was president he would magically find a whole host of independent judges that have zero political leanings? where are these judges, besides in fantasyland?
While I disagree that a judge cannot uphold the constitution while also ruling more to the left or right on an issue, and I also disagree in that most judges do attempt to remove peronal viewpoints from their rulings and stick to the facts and the law (since the vast majority of cases aren't about abortion or gun control or illegal aliens), one has to at some point be practical and say that if judges are going to be ruling left or right, then maybe it's better to have those judges ruling on the side you agree with. After 8 years of republican federal judge appointments any change is needed just for balance. Scotus sees a tiny fraction of appeals, so almost all cases are ultimately decided by the federal judiciary.
eh? I'd take good policies spearheaded by a Nixon than bad policies launched by a Mother Theresa.
You're missing the point. If Nixon had good policies during his campaign run then got into the White House and changed his mind, those policies mean jack shit because he lacks integrity. If Mother Theresa was running and got elected you would get what you voted for.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 173
- 106
Well the same goes for the opposite.
A candidate's integrity means squat to me if they are going to follow bad policy, why do I care if it's campaign promise they are sticking to? Bad policy is simply bad policy.
I think voting for policy gives Congress and other officials a good idea of what we want. That's about the most we can do, and then hope they'll wanna stay in office enough to get it done (and not flip-flop).
I think sending somebody to office based on what we want done (our policy preferences) is far better than sending them there with the idea in their head that they have some kind of moral superiority.
Also, you imply that a candidate can go back on their policies, but the same can be said of their integrity and ideals also. Many a good person has gone to Washington only to be corrupted. You getting your "integrity" is no more sure than me getting my "policy".
I don't mean to imply personal characterists are completely irrelevant, merely that they are not as important as policy to me. I also think judging such personal characteristics is far more difficult than judging policy.
Fern
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,914
- 2,359
- 126
Since when did integrity ever matter to the 40% of Americans that vote? shit....not at least for 30 years...
You didn't get it either. That one with good policy and bad integrity only told you what the fuck you wanted to hear so he could get your vote. His policies change while in office and nothing you can do about it. All because he made you feel good when speaking. Sad. Majority of Americans are like this though, so it shouldn't surprise me one bit that you think the same.
Morally corrupt people running for office only tell you what you want to hear. It doesn't matter if they say the right things, it matters if they will actually follow through.
This isn't the point I'm trying to make here. Whether he thinks he has moral superiority or not is irrelevant, its whether YOU think he is a man of his word. But again, you would rather be seduced by a sweet drink only to find out its poison when its too late. We have fallen for this for far too many years/times. They (politicians) have it down to a science.
Wrong. Someone with morals and integrity will be more sympathetic to hear what people of this country want. Someone who lacks those qualities could care less about you and will get whatever they can, money, power, control etc.
The inner man means the most to me but it seems to many others its the "appearance" of the man that makes him who he is. Those who judge a man on such merits will get what they wanted. An outwardly good looking, excellent speaker who inspires the masses only to lead them off the cliff. His inner heart so corrupted with selfish desires, he will lead this nation into more corruption, more wars and more government control.
Those with integrity and honesty are shunned and spit on, flogged in front of the masses and mocked. Yet the populace is blind and cannot see the truth. Its hidden from them because thats all they know. Their eyes have been fixated on outward appearances all their lives, they've never been taught nor do they seek to be taught. Stubborn in their beliefs they fall prey to the wolves in sheep's clothing.
By the time you wake up from your dream, you will wonder what you were thinking when you went to vote for him and it will be too late. For you knew better then, didn't you.
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