McChrystal cleared

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Let's consider this for just a minute.

We are engaged in a hot war in Afghanistan.

Obama's top general there, who actually is committed to doing the war the Obama way, has a Rolling Stone anti-military, anti-war reporter embedded with his senior staff.

Said Rolling Stone reporter writes a story that is anti-military and anti-war (was anyone expecting any different?) and couched in terms understandable to a lefty readership, where he claims the general's oh-so-rude staff of snake eaters made unkind remarks in the course of a round of drinks in a Paris bar while they waited for a delayed flight.

The President, a sensitive sort, with the Vice President, a doltish sort, by his side, within a day or so of reading one of his favorite journals after Mother Jones, without substantive corroboration, fires this general, and likely much of his staff of special warriors, for the unkind remarks claimed by the writer, which, BTW, were not corroborated.

The general says "fuck it" (my words, not his, but then again, I am longer out of the Army than he is,) resigns and retires to teach at Yale where he now has unlimited access to New Haven pizza, the best around.

It turns out the article author lied and he has mysteriously declined comment since the story was published, referring all inquiries, of which there were many, to the Rolling Stone PR department, who, of course, know nothing.

McChrystal is now cleared and can hold his head high, but then I never thought he need stop.

Obama and Rolling Stone, however, need to hang their collectivized heads in shame.

A beer in the Rose Garden won't fix this.



McChrystal cleared of nasty remarks

By: Gordon Lubold

September 22, 2010 05:53 PM EDT


A Pentagon investigation has determined that neither Gen. Stanley McChrystal nor the senior officers in his inner circle made the disparaging comments to Rolling Stone that led to the general’s downfall in June.

McChyrstal was relieved of his command of U.S. troops in Afghanistan after a Rolling Stone article portrayed his team making snide remarks about Vice President Joe Biden, National Security Adviser Jim Jones and others.

But as first reported Wednesday by the New York Times, the Pentagon’s investigation into the case has established that McChrystal didn’t make any of the comments himself. In fact, Pentagon officials told POLITICO Wednesday that McChrystal was never even a “person of interest” in the probe.

The Times said that the investigation may now be focused on a mid-level naval officer who was also part of McChrystal’s group. But the paper said that the naval officer has told Navy officials that he did not make the remarks in question, either.

A Pentagon official told POLITICO that the investigation is ongoing.

“What they’re looking for is to see if any Army policies or guidelines or procedures were violated,” the official said.

The investigation’s preliminary conclusions come as a new book by Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward reveals nasty backbiting within the Obama administration over the war in Afghanistan – replete with comments that were markedly similar to those that led to McChrystal’s dismissal.

According to the Times, Woodward’s book quotes Biden calling U.S. Special Envoy Richard Holbrooke "the most egotistical bastard I've ever met” and Gen. David Petraeus – McChrystal’s replacement in Afghanistan – calling White House senior adviser David Axelrod “a complete spin doctor.”

The Rolling Stone story said McChrystal laughed when an aide referred to Biden as “Bite Me,” and it said that an unnamed McChrystal aide had called Jones a “clown.”

McChrystal, who retired with each of his four stars and now teaches a course at Yale, offered his resignation to Obama two days after the Rolling Stone story appeared in June.

Military officials began the investigation into the article at the behest of Army Vice Chief of Staff Peter Chiarelli, who wanted them to determine what if any regulations were violated before the publication of the article.

Reporter Michael Hastings, who wrote “The Runaway General” for Rolling Stone, reportedly declined to talk with the Pentagon’s investigators. Reached by email Wednesday, he declined to comment on the probe, referring POLITICO to a Rolling Stone spokesman instead.

That spokesman referred POLITICO to the magazine’s prior response to questions about the story:

“All of the unattributed quotes were provided by the general’s closest and most senior advisors, expressing attitudes that McChrystal was fully aware of and often encouraged,” the magazine said in a statement. “The most infamous comment in the piece – a mocking reference to the vice president as Joe ‘Bite Me’ – was made by one of McChrystal’s top advisers and lifelong confidante during a formal briefing, and elicited an appreciative laugh from the general.”
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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where he now has unlimited access to New Haven pizza, the best around.

Says the guy who apparently has an ideological problem with visiting Obama's hometown :p Stop being such a partisan hack, progressive deep dish pizza is unmatched, and you know it!
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
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So wait a minute... when this story broke and I was being greatly insulted here by all the resident liberals, for questioning an author for using but a few words in a quote, the context being outside the quotation marks, and near all from unnamed sources...


Or should I get into my Craig character:
All lies and propaganda! Stop protecting the interests of the rich!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
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Wait, wait... the pentagon closes ranks behind mccrystal, obfuscates and whitewashes the whole thing?

Pjabber adds his own usual lies to the mix?

color me surprised, very surprised...
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
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So wait a minute... when this story broke and I was being greatly insulted here by all the resident liberals, for questioning an author for using but a few words in a quote, the context being outside the quotation marks, and near all from unnamed sources...


Or should I get into my Craig character:
All lies and propaganda! Stop protecting the interests of the rich!

But you're willing to base your entirely judgement of the event on the way PJABBER imagines it went down?

So now we have two incredibly opposed news stories of who said what to who, and shockingly enough, people believe the one that best supports their political slant. Sounds like we need more information before jumping on either bandwagon. But I suppose that's not really the point of bandwagons...
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
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Says the guy who apparently has an ideological problem with visiting Obama's hometown :p Stop being such a partisan hack, progressive deep dish pizza is unmatched, and you know it!

Been both places, love 'em both. I am definitely torn between Chicago deep dish and New Haven apizza. I guess it depends what kind of beer I'm having. And whose company I'm in. I want both! One to start and the other for dessert!

:hmm:

I'm in DC for now, the battle is between 2 Amys and Pete's Apizza for a spot in my stomach. No matter which wins, it is all good! :awe:
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
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0
Wait, wait... the pentagon closes ranks behind mccrystal, obfuscates and whitewashes the whole thing?

Pjabber adds his own usual lies to the mix?

color me surprised, very surprised...

I report, you decide! :cool:
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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Not sure the point of this thread. Everyone knew neither he or his senior staff made those remarks. He was fired for letting such an atmosphere foster. This clearing does not exonerate him by any means.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Not sure the point of this thread. Everyone knew neither he or his senior staff made those remarks. He was fired for letting such an atmosphere foster. This clearing does not exonerate him by any means.
Disagree 100%. I was only under the impression from everything I saw that he was being canned for those remarks. And I do not recall a single instance of him denying them.

Something about this story is fishy. Either he did in fact say what he said or he didn't but had no interest in denying it. I sure as sh*t don't remember him defending his case at all about not having made these remarks, a very easy thing to have done.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
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From wiki
McChrystal's staff was contacted prior to release of the article and did not deny the validity of the article,[43] though senior members of his staff dispute this, and have accused Hastings of exaggerating the seniority of aides quoted and breaking the "off the record" trust of private conversations.[44]

here is what mcChrystal said:
I extend my sincerest apology for this profile. It was a mistake reflecting poor judgment and should never have happened. Throughout my career, I have lived by the principles of personal honor and professional integrity. What is reflected in this article falls far short of that standard. I have enormous respect and admiration for President Obama and his national security team, and for the civilian leaders and troops fighting this war and I remain committed to ensuring its successful outcome.[46]
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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Disagree 100%. I was only under the impression from everything I saw that he was being canned for those remarks. And I do not recall a single instance of him denying them.

Something about this story is fishy. Either he did in fact say what he said or he didn't but had no interest in denying it. I sure as sh*t don't remember him defending his case at all about not having made these remarks, a very easy thing to have done.

Were you paying attention when this went down? Did your read the original article? His only derisive comment was brushing off Biden with a "who's that?" quip. Also, he's a soldier. Soldiers, especially those in command, usually take the hit for the team. There is rarely ever a pointing of fingers, especially from the man at the top. As it should be since it was his show.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I went on record on this forum defending McCrystal as a very good general. I also went on record hoping Obama would not remove McCrystal, but the wound opened was too deep.

But I very much suspect that the Rolling Stone reporter embellished a good part of the report to make McCrystal and especially his staff look bad, but still its impossible to believe its all fiction.

But this country has a long and necessary prohibition against active duty military officers entering the political arena, and McCrystal had far more than only his big toe
across that line. And there is a world of difference between how General Petraeus and General McCrystal conduct themselves in public.

But there is a world of a difference between how Obama treated McCrystal and what Rumsfeld did to Generals Taguba and Shinsiki. The decision to retire was wholly made by McCrystal, but effectively his military career was a dead end road. And now he has a new career in the academic world where there are no walls between General and politician. And has another excellent chance to advocate his ideas, so its hard to feel sorry for him.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
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I suggest that everyone go read the advance stories coming from the new Woodward book.

They may do more to explain why McChrystal gave up than anything else.

There is a chance that McChrystal may have decided that he had enough and didn't want to serve this president any longer or that he wasn't happy with Obama's approach to Afghanistan which completely excluded any mention of obtaining victory there.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
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He wasn't in control of his soldiers and he didn't deny it. Nothing to see here.

In fact, he probably planned the whole thing to get out of the military like Profjohn said.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,875
6,784
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Just prior to McC saying what he did he was struck in the head by a cosmic ray and the shower of sub atomic particles that scattered in all directions set off some electrons that in turn released so neurochemical precursors in the brain which then metabolized into transmitters that fired a neuron. This one impulse created an electrical cascade that reminded the general of Biden and words were blurted out from the speech center in the left hemisphere of his brain. And thus did the General get himself in such trouble.

And if any of you think that anything other than what I just said isn't exactly what happened you are simply full of shit.

I know more than you can possibly imagine and am never wrong usually.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,405
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Wait, wait... the pentagon closes ranks behind mccrystal, obfuscates and whitewashes the whole thing?

Pjabber adds his own usual lies to the mix?

color me surprised, very surprised...

i know everyone has their own thoughts on pizza but that doesn't make it a lie


now cake... that is a lie
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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Here's a good article on the Pentagon and its handling of embedded reporters -

How it has *hired a consultant* to review journalists' reporting to decide whether it likes the reporting as being in agreement with the Pentagon's agenda, for use in its approving or rejecting the applications for embedded reporting, and how it has denied reporters - including a Stars & Stripes reporter for not concentrating on the point he was told the Pentagon wanted - the permits.

This is a link to a mention of a Glenn Greenwald column on the topic reporting the revocation of the previously approved embed permit for the Rolling Stone writer.

It also mentions the Pentagon PR nominee's promises in their hearing to ensure that the Pentagon does not base approval on whether it agrees with the reporting.

There is more history as well how the embed process was designed to increase favorable reporting.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/08/04/journalist-michael-hastings-embed-permission-is-revoked/
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Vetting of embedded reporters is a very good thing. If they can't pass a TS SBI then they should not be allowed in amongst high level commands.

Part of such vetting should be to see if these reporters have the slightest concern for the welfare of those they are going to write about. If they believe that our troops need to die so that he/she can make a liberal talking point on the futility of the war they wage on our behalf, that should be a disqualifier.

Actually, WTF do we need a reporter in amongst high level staff anyway? Has someone got the bright idea that military planning at the highest level needs to be served up on a silver platter to the enemy in the name of leveling the odds? I have yet to see a Rolling Stone dispatch from OBL's cave. Why not?

Freedom of the press? Not on a battlefield. As in other wars, every story needs to be reviewed and censored before filing. Not as a coverup, though that is always the wetdream of liberal angst, but to prevent the leaking of valuable information to an enemy seeking to kill our men and women.

The Taliban may or may not be doing real time monitoring of news stories thanks to the speed of the Internet, but more sophisticated enemies absolutely monitor, analyze, distribute and act on all the free intel our press provides. They just need to turn on CNN and watch the talking heads on the ground (not the pretty ones back at the hotel) lay out how the battle is going and adjust accordingly.

I look at it this way - this RS reporter took out the entire high level command of the war effort in Afghanistan with one article.

How many terrorist bombers or even organized enemy forces can make a claim like that?
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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Vetting of embedded reporters is a very good thing. If they can't pass a TS SBI then they should not be allowed in amongst high level commands.

Part of such vetting should be to see if these reporters have the slightest concern for the welfare of those they are going to write about. If they believe that our troops need to die so that he/she can make a liberal talking point on the futility of the war they wage on our behalf, that should be a disqualifier.

Actually, WTF do we need a reporter in amongst high level staff anyway? Has someone got the bright idea that military planning at the highest level needs to be served up on a silver platter to the enemy in the name of leveling the odds? I have yet to see a Rolling Stone dispatch from OBL's cave. Why not?

Freedom of the press? Not on a battlefield. As in other wars, every story needs to be reviewed and censored before filing. Not as a coverup, though that is always the wetdream of liberal angst, but to prevent the leaking of valuable information to an enemy seeking to kill our men and women.

The Taliban may or may not be doing real time monitoring of news stories thanks to the speed of the Internet, but more sophisticated enemies absolutely monitor, analyze, distribute and act on all the free intel our press provides. They just need to turn on CNN and watch the talking heads on the ground (not the pretty ones ones back at the hotel) lay out how the battle is going and adjust accordingly.

I look at it this way - this RS reporter took out the entire high level command of the war effort in Afghanistan with one article.

How many terrorist bombers or even organized enemy forces can make a claim like that?

No, apologist, the high level command took itself out.

You remind me of the criminal saying to the prosecutor, how the prosecutor is harming them.

The prosecutor responds (mostly correctly), no, you did that by committing crimes.

And your spin to allow the military to have carte blanche to only give access to reporters who say what it wants as a troop safety issue is an assault on the press.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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NON Prof John states, "There is a chance that McChrystal may have decided that he had enough and didn't want to serve this president any longer or that he wasn't happy with Obama's approach to Afghanistan which completely excluded any mention of obtaining victory there."

Excuse me Johnny, there is no chance of that idea being true. The Afghan war was pretty well totally lost by GWB&co, McCrystal played no overall role in Afghan Nato command during the GWB era, but was tapped by Obama as have the right counterinsurgency type ideas that Bush never tried.

But there is no I in team, and when McCrystal and especially his staff tried to blame everyone and their brother in law by asserting he was the only M in team, it went over like a lead balloon.

But the things McCrystal had to do to start winning in Afghanistan was more idle talk and empty gestures. Instead of reducing the Nato caused Afghan civilian deaths, he if anything increased them, he did nothing to reduce corruption, built nothing, and was a fanboy of big military offensives that caused huge Afghan civilian misery, but accomplished nothing long terms. To some extent he has a right to be critical of US and Nato civilian ambassadors who were little more effective than their GWB counterparts. But you don't air those grievances in public, and because McCrystal surrounded himself with yes men officers, that is what the Rolling Stones reporter tapped into loud and clear with some alcohol to lubricate their mouths. But no, no honest General could think McCrystal was doing what was needed in Afghanistan.
McCrystal was simply doing what ineffective people do, blaming others for his failures
while not doing all he could do.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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I suggest that everyone go read the advance stories coming from the new Woodward book.

They may do more to explain why McChrystal gave up than anything else.

There is a chance that McChrystal may have decided that he had enough and didn't want to serve this president any longer or that he wasn't happy with Obama's approach to Afghanistan which completely excluded any mention of obtaining victory there.

Yeah, and the fact that he left his post immediately after the Rolling Stone article was just a coincidence because he would have resigned anyway. You're delusional.

- wolf
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
793
0
0
The Stone's reporter was used then and is being used now. McChrystal wanted out so he allowed the Rolling Stones of all magazines/paper to be the medium. He got what he wanted. But never forget this guy isn't half the General Patranus is.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
16,001
8,595
136
Seems plausible to me that McChrystal walking out the door with his honor and reputation intact was part of a deal to squash the incident as quickly and as painlessly as possible.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
The Stone's reporter was used then and is being used now. McChrystal wanted out so he allowed the Rolling Stones of all magazines/paper to be the medium. He got what he wanted. But never forget this guy isn't half the General Patranus is.

Neither one of them could shine Sherman's boots. Or Osama's for that matter. I tend too look at winners not losers though.
 
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