McCain: War detractors offer no ideas

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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McCain is saying the same thing I said in a thread a week or so ago.

What good is a resolution that claims you do not support something when you aren't willing to take action to actually do something about it?
The Democrats aren?t even the opposition party on this; they are just the bitching party. To be a true opposition party they would have to offer an alternative.
link
Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) sought to weaken support for a resolution opposing President Bush's Iraq war strategy Sunday, saying proponents are intellectually dishonest.

On the eve of a possible congressional showdown on Iraq strategy, McCain contended the bipartisan proposal amounted to a demoralizing "vote of no confidence" in the U.S. military.

The measure criticizes Bush's plan to add 21,500 troops in Iraq yet offers no concrete alternatives, he said.

"I don't think it's appropriate to say that you disapprove of a mission and you don't want to fund it and you don't want it to go, but yet you don't take the action necessary to prevent it," said McCain, top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee and a 2008 presidential candidate from Arizona.
(and)
McCain is sponsoring a resolution expressing support for a troop increase and setting benchmark goals for the Iraqi government. He sought to capitalize on some of the Democratic division.

"I do believe that if you really believe that this is doomed to failure and is going to cost American lives, then you should do what's necessary to prevent it from happening rather than a vote of 'disapproval,'" McCain said.

"This is a vote of no confidence in both the mission and the troops who are going over there," he said, noting the proposal does not seek to cut off money for troops.
and you have to love this part...
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., called GOP efforts to block a vote on the resolution "obstructionism." Neither a Senate majority nor voters, she said, will tolerate such a delaying tactic.
Let's just forget all the tactics used by the Democrats to prevent judges from getting up/down votes.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
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Except they do and have. They just don't like it and continue to repeat themselves as if nothing else has been said.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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Didn't the GOP pass similar resolutions praising Bush and the war efforts? You know, without really trying to fix things in that region.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
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Oh and why do you keep making these ridiculous posts repeating gop talking points and then ignore the responses.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
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Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Except they do and have. They just don't like it and continue to repeat themselves as if nothing else has been said.
They have what? Who are you talking about? And why is this 'plan' of theirs not being put up for a vote?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Except they do and have. They just don't like it and continue to repeat themselves as if nothing else has been said.
Ayup. Biden, Kerry, Murtha and several others have offered up plans and alternatives. Also, the Iraq Study Group offered up alternatives.

PooferJohn must have downed an entire pitcher of Kool-Aid today.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Except they do and have. They just don't like it and continue to repeat themselves as if nothing else has been said.
They have what? Who are you talking about? And why is this 'plan' of theirs not being put up for a vote?
Because Congress does not dictate military strategy. Or is that fact lost on you. Oh wait....look who I'm replying to.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Except they do and have. They just don't like it and continue to repeat themselves as if nothing else has been said.
Ayup. Biden, Kerry, Murtha and several others have offered up plans and alternatives. Also, the Iraq Study Group offered up alternatives.

PooferJohn must have down an entire pitcher of Kool-Aid today.
Yep. PJ's working overtime this weekend. That's four or five swiftboatings in two days. He'd better pace himself or he's going to be into reruns before most people forget how badly he was shot down on the previous runs.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Except they do and have. They just don't like it and continue to repeat themselves as if nothing else has been said.
Ayup. Biden, Kerry, Murtha and several others have offered up plans and alternatives. Also, the Iraq Study Group offered up alternatives.

PooferJohn must have down an entire pitcher of Kool-Aid today.
Yep. PJ's working overtime this weekend. That's four or five swiftboatings in two days. He'd better pace himself or he's going to be into reruns before most people forget how badly he was shot down on the previous runs.

Man the GOP has to be paying him well.
 

sandmanwake

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2000
1,494
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Isn't the Executive Branch the one that's supposed to be coming up with plans for how to run the war and Congress is the one who is in charge of the purse strings? Why is McCain or anyone else telling Congress to basically do the job the President and his people should be doing? If I ran a business and paid someone to come up with a business plan and they gave me something ******, am I obligated to fund their plan even though it's a ****** one? If I didn't like it am I obligated to basically do the job I paid the other guy to do? No, I'd tell them to go back to the drawing board and come up with something that's worth funding because that's their job. If they don't think they can do the job, quit and let someone else take over.

In Iraq's case, critics of Bush's plan have offered alternatives, even though I don't think it's their job, but all those plans are being brushed aside as surrendering by Bush and co. Personally, I'd prefer it if we put the necessary amount (4-500k) of soldiers in Iraq to do the job right in the first place instead of the idiotic surge they're wanting, but I'm not sure we have the resources to do it at this point.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
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I'm not getting this - PJ whines that the Democrats aren't working towards action on Iraq, then whines when they do?
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
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It's funny how ProfJohn opens up these new threads, gets pwned, then abandons them.

Most Democrats want to follow the findings of the Baker-Hamilton commision Johnny. It's funny how McCain is trying to reformulate himself as a conservative. Too bad that destroys his "maverick" ness.

I await your next thread.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
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Originally posted by: totalcommand
It's funny how ProfJohn opens up these new threads, gets pwned, then abandons them.

Most Democrats want to follow the findings of the Baker-Hamilton commision Johnny. It's funny how McCain is trying to reformulate himself as a conservative. Too bad that destroys his "maverick" ness.

I await your next thread.

I was just about to say that. He posts something bogus and then runs away when his GOP talking point makes no sense when evaluated. This kind of "argument" works with weak people.. the arguer keeps switching away from one argument to the next when defeated, acting like the next point is more important and therefore the previous one should be dismissed.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
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Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: totalcommand
It's funny how ProfJohn opens up these new threads, gets pwned, then abandons them.

Most Democrats want to follow the findings of the Baker-Hamilton commision Johnny. It's funny how McCain is trying to reformulate himself as a conservative. Too bad that destroys his "maverick" ness.

I await your next thread.
I was just about to say that. He posts something bogus and then runs away when his GOP talking point makes no sense when evaluated. This kind of "argument" works with weak people.. the arguer keeps switching away from one argument to the next when defeated, acting like the next point is more important and therefore the previous one should be dismissed.
These threads are all based on stories from yahoo or other news sources. I see something interesting and worthy of comment I post it here.
I did not run away.
Nobody has really addressed what McCain is saying.
Where is this Democrat plan you are all talking about? Where is the Democrat resolution to put their plan into action? Where is the Democrat resolution even suggesting a different plan?
"Gee Mr. Bush we don't like the surge, this is what WE think you should do in Iraq."
And yet we don't see that. All we get is 'bitch bitch bitch' about what they don't like without ever offering anything of their own.

If you want me to respond then respond to what McCain says and I bolded.
If they don't like this plan so much then why aren't they trying to block it in a meaningful way?
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
No. Don't post an item, then demand people to answer to what you've "bolded...."

If you want a place where people don't ask questions or point out your flaws in logic, then you're in the wrong place....
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: totalcommand
It's funny how ProfJohn opens up these new threads, gets pwned, then abandons them.

Most Democrats want to follow the findings of the Baker-Hamilton commision Johnny. It's funny how McCain is trying to reformulate himself as a conservative. Too bad that destroys his "maverick" ness.

I await your next thread.
I was just about to say that. He posts something bogus and then runs away when his GOP talking point makes no sense when evaluated. This kind of "argument" works with weak people.. the arguer keeps switching away from one argument to the next when defeated, acting like the next point is more important and therefore the previous one should be dismissed.
These threads are all based on stories from yahoo or other news sources. I see something interesting and worthy of comment I post it here.
I did not run away.
Nobody has really addressed what McCain is saying.
Where is this Democrat plan you are all talking about? Where is the Democrat resolution to put their plan into action? Where is the Democrat resolution even suggesting a different plan?
"Gee Mr. Bush we don't like the surge, this is what WE think you should do in Iraq."
And yet we don't see that. All we get is 'bitch bitch bitch' about what they don't like without ever offering anything of their own.

Actually you do see that. Democrats want Bush to follow the Baker-Hamilton commission. Too bad that won't happen. There's no point bringing a resolution to the floor that Republicans who want to kill more of our youth will just filibuster.

If you want me to respond then respond to what McCain says and I bolded.
If they don't like this plan so much then why aren't they trying to block it in a meaningful way?

They are. They consider this resolution the first step - and the Republicans have already filibustered this first step!
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
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Originally posted by: UberNeuman
No. Don't post an item, then demand people to answer to what you've "bolded...."

If you want a place where people don't ask questions or point out your flaws in logic, then you're in the wrong place....

Wow a profjohn fanboy. We have addressed his question and his ridiculously flawed logic based on false premises. He just doesn't like it.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
No. Don't post an item, then demand people to answer to what you've "bolded...."

If you want a place where people don't ask questions or point out your flaws in logic, then you're in the wrong place....

Wow a profjohn fanboy. We have addressed his question and his ridiculously flawed logic based on false premises. He just doesn't like it.

I was addressing PJ and his faulty logic..... Nice way to jump the gun, totalcommand.....
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
3,318
126
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
No. Don't post an item, then demand people to answer to what you've "bolded...."

If you want a place where people don't ask questions or point out your flaws in logic, then you're in the wrong place....

problem is those questions need to be intelligent...
Aslo where are the links to all the various democratic candidates for president`s plan fort ending the war if it goes into the next election?

Why aren`t the democrats actively stopping Bush instead of giving there objections via lip service....

I understand Monika Lewinski was good at lip service.......just ask Hillary`s husband..lol
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
3,318
126
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
I'm not getting this - PJ whines that the Democrats aren't working towards action on Iraq, then whines when they do?

problem is the democrats are doing nothingh concrete. It`s all lip service...
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: totalcommand
It's funny how ProfJohn opens up these new threads, gets pwned, then abandons them.

Most Democrats want to follow the findings of the Baker-Hamilton commision Johnny. It's funny how McCain is trying to reformulate himself as a conservative. Too bad that destroys his "maverick" ness.

I await your next thread.
I was just about to say that. He posts something bogus and then runs away when his GOP talking point makes no sense when evaluated. This kind of "argument" works with weak people.. the arguer keeps switching away from one argument to the next when defeated, acting like the next point is more important and therefore the previous one should be dismissed.
These threads are all based on stories from yahoo or other news sources. I see something interesting and worthy of comment I post it here.
I did not run away.
Nobody has really addressed what McCain is saying.
Where is this Democrat plan you are all talking about? Where is the Democrat resolution to put their plan into action? Where is the Democrat resolution even suggesting a different plan?
"Gee Mr. Bush we don't like the surge, this is what WE think you should do in Iraq."
And yet we don't see that. All we get is 'bitch bitch bitch' about what they don't like without ever offering anything of their own.

If you want me to respond then respond to what McCain says and I bolded.
If they don't like this plan so much then why aren't they trying to block it in a meaningful way?



1. People have already posted here about the Democrat response.
2. All of your "news" posts are just GOP talking points being relayed in a "news" article. Yet when we show you that reality differs, you ignore it, just like with this post. How many posts in this thread already pointed ou the alternatives?
 

mc00

Senior member
Jan 25, 2005
277
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0
I actually believe non-projohn thinks he could take on all P&N user, and sometime I think he believe his opinion always right and our view "liberal" as they label people is always dumb or wrong.. I don't know him personally but everytime I see his thread I say to my self "oh great, another thread more of his opinion to fight us with".. I could just either ignore him or read more his I think I know it all and I want to change people view on iraq war or whatever issue is happening within U.S.. probably(maybe not) reply to my post "no, is not true I'm not trying to change no one opinion.. just trying to show common sense some of you liberal" blah blah blah...

p.s gotta love freedom of speech.. even if you don't like person bs just best you can do just cover your ears. so projohn when you going give us vacation from your wisdom ? :p
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
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Topic Title: McCain: War detractors offer no ideas
Topic Summary: about time someone points that out

Yes, because the right haven't been claiming that ad nauseum for months now. Glad someone finally repeated it.. again. :roll:

This isn't news. The Democrats do have some people proposing ideas, but Bush/Cheney/Snow say "But that would lead to defeat in the war on terrah!" the first time they hear any possibility of an alternative mentioned.