McCain want to free "Teh Internets"

[Phokus]

Still waiting for an answer Spidey

Diffserv allows you to prioritize traffic on your network - but not where it leaves your network and goes on to someone elses (e.g. internet or a long haul carrier). The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values.

 

[Phokus]

Come on spidey, that's not a wiki article, stop the excuses.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Still waiting for an answer Spidey

Diffserv allows you to prioritize traffic on your network - but not where it leaves your network and goes on to someone elses (e.g. internet or a long haul carrier). The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values.

What the hell does that have to with my providing quality of service within my own AS? Your picking the one known problem with end to end QoS and saying we shouldn't do it at all? You just don't understand the technology or how the internet works and I can't explain it to you on a forum.

-edit-
And apparently you say your service is is wonderful. Guess they spent all that money on upgrades to give you top notch service.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Phokus
Still waiting for an answer Spidey

Diffserv allows you to prioritize traffic on your network - but not where it leaves your network and goes on to someone elses (e.g. internet or a long haul carrier). The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values.

What the hell does that have to with my providing quality of service within my own AS? Your picking the one known problem with end to end QoS and saying we shouldn't do it at all? You just don't understand the technology or how the internet works and I can't explain it to you on a forum.

Because 'my own AS' doesn't mean 'the entire internet', you idiot. You're getting confused, read your own damn original reply:

You so don't understand this issue at all. Off to google with you. I wasn't talking about RSVP, I was talking about diffserve per hop behaviors, that CAN be controlled withing a particular AS.

Guess what one of the problems associated with RSVP is?

Guaranteed service assumes that every router along the route supports the QoS protocols. As the RSVP RFC points out, non-RSVP nodes not only ignore QoS requests, but might reroute packets so they aren't using the reserved route at all. While the RFC considers this result tolerable, real guarantees would require huge numbers of ISPs to agree to deploy the protocols all at the same. The Internet does not work that way.

ISPs must cooperate in ways that help their competitors more than themselves. In other words, one ISP will be promising a premium service as a way to win customers, then asking competing ISPs to help meet that promise. Such help is not likely to be proffered until ISPs are run by the spiritual descendents of St. Francis of Assisi.

You're basically saying, "Wait wait wait', i'm not talking about RSVP, i'm talking about DIFFSERV, it's TOTALLY different!

Diffserv allows you to prioritize traffic on your network - but not where it leaves your network and goes on to someone elses (e.g. internet or a long haul carrier). The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values.

No, you still need agreement between carriers.

Now kindly shut the hell up, you confused little boy.

 

[spidey07]

That agreement is called a peering agreement and you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints into what we normally do is 4 different queues. I just really can't explain this to you any longer, feel like I'm talking to a 3 year old trying to explain gravity - the 3 year old just isn't going to get it.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07
You're using wikipedia as a source, you simply do not understand the technology. That's OK, you just can't have an informed opinion about it.

I keep imploring you to explain it, but all you're doing is obfuscating.

I'm ASKING YOU, what happens BETWEEN the major network peers. Oh wait, you can't fucking answer that because you don't fucking know

And here's the non-wiki link i provided:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/IP-...008/3/Diffserv-qos.htm

Achieving end-to-end qos is not an easy task and involves much more than just setting diffserv bits. Diffserv allows you to prioritize traffic on your network - but not where it leaves your network and goes on to someone elses (e.g. internet or a long haul carrier). The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values. Normally, you would have to agree that with them and pay a premium based on how much bandwidth of each priority level that you wish to contract for.

Which is basically what the wiki entry said.

Still waiting for your answer and not "THAT PARTICULAR AS" bullshit, you're spewing.

I'm loving this, you're a fucking fraud. keep throwing out acronyms, as if that shows that you actually know anything.

I will answer you. NNI's are subject to packet queuing and prioritization. As is AS to AS peering.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: spidey07
That agreement is called a peering agreement and you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints into what we normally do is 4 different queues. I just really can't explain this to you any longer, feel like I'm talking to a 3 year old trying to explain gravity - the 3 year old just isn't going to get it.

Nope, you're just full of shit, the issue isn't just technical, it's economic and logistical. Instead of addressing the issue, you obfuscate and DON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints

What the FUCK does that have to do with ANY of this.

The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values. Normally, you would have to agree that with them and pay a premium based on how much bandwidth of each priority level that you wish to contract for.

It's hilarious watching you try to obfuscate out of the fact that you DON'T know what the fuck you're talking about. Just like the whole TWC debacle, you don't seem to 'get' the bigger picture. I think you should stick to setting up routers and leave policy alone.

 

[cubby1223]

Phokus, are you actually proud of the life you live?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07
That agreement is called a peering agreement and you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints into what we normally do is 4 different queues. I just really can't explain this to you any longer, feel like I'm talking to a 3 year old trying to explain gravity - the 3 year old just isn't going to get it.

Nope, you're just full of shit, the issue isn't just technical, it's economic and logistical. Instead of addressing the issue, you obfuscate and DON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints

What the FUCK does that have to do with ANY of this.

The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values. Normally, you would have to agree that with them and pay a premium based on how much bandwidth of each priority level that you wish to contract for.

It's hilarious watching you try to obfuscate out of the fact that you DON'T know what the fuck you're talking about. Just like the whole TWC debacle, you don't seem to 'get' the bigger picture. I think you should stick to setting up routers and leave policy alone.

Phokus, I work for a fortune 50 company that peers with 8 other AS's. We have a mixture of MPLS, ATM, frame, PTP, and direct line service, and I work on it daily.

You have no idea what youre talking about, and spidey is 100% correct. I dont give a fuck what wiki's you pull up, I work in the real world managing dozens of OC48 peers, and Im telling you youre wrong.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07
That agreement is called a peering agreement and you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints into what we normally do is 4 different queues. I just really can't explain this to you any longer, feel like I'm talking to a 3 year old trying to explain gravity - the 3 year old just isn't going to get it.

Nope, you're just full of shit, the issue isn't just technical, it's economic and logistical. Instead of addressing the issue, you obfuscate and DON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints

What the FUCK does that have to do with ANY of this.

The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values. Normally, you would have to agree that with them and pay a premium based on how much bandwidth of each priority level that you wish to contract for.

It's hilarious watching you try to obfuscate out of the fact that you DON'T know what the fuck you're talking about. Just like the whole TWC debacle, you don't seem to 'get' the bigger picture. I think you should stick to setting up routers and leave policy alone.

Phokus, I work for a fortune 50 company that peers with 8 other AS's. We have a mixture of MPLS, ATM, frame, PTP, and direct line service, and I work on it daily.

You have no idea what youre talking about, and spidey is 100% correct. I dont give a fuck what wiki's you pull up, I work in the real world managing dozens of OC48 peers, and Im telling you youre wrong.

Wrong like "blackangst thinks Taiwan has a 1 trillion dollar deficit" wrong? Or wrong like, all the literature seems to say YOU'RE wrong.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07
That agreement is called a peering agreement and you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints into what we normally do is 4 different queues. I just really can't explain this to you any longer, feel like I'm talking to a 3 year old trying to explain gravity - the 3 year old just isn't going to get it.

Nope, you're just full of shit, the issue isn't just technical, it's economic and logistical. Instead of addressing the issue, you obfuscate and DON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

you CAN remap all the various diffserve codepoints

What the FUCK does that have to do with ANY of this.

The reason for that is that they may or may not choose to honor your diffserv values. Normally, you would have to agree that with them and pay a premium based on how much bandwidth of each priority level that you wish to contract for.

It's hilarious watching you try to obfuscate out of the fact that you DON'T know what the fuck you're talking about. Just like the whole TWC debacle, you don't seem to 'get' the bigger picture. I think you should stick to setting up routers and leave policy alone.

Phokus, I work for a fortune 50 company that peers with 8 other AS's. We have a mixture of MPLS, ATM, frame, PTP, and direct line service, and I work on it daily.

You have no idea what youre talking about, and spidey is 100% correct. I dont give a fuck what wiki's you pull up, I work in the real world managing dozens of OC48 peers, and Im telling you youre wrong.

Wrong like "blackangst thinks Taiwan has a 1 trillion dollar deficit" wrong? Or wrong like, all the literature seems to say YOU'RE wrong.

Wrong as in, you have no idea what youre talking about wrong.

 

[Phokus]

Presentation on diffserv:

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~...erv_discussion_2up.pdf

"End-to-End QoS across multiple providers/domains is NOT available today"

Problems:

"Economic arrangements"

- Need sophisticated settlements between ISPS


edit:

Originally posted by: blackangst1


Wrong as in, you have no idea what youre talking about wrong.

K, here's a task for you, contact every author and correct them, they're obviously not as knowledgeable as you or spidey.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Presentation on diffserv:

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~...erv_discussion_2up.pdf

"End-to-End QoS across multiple providers/domains is NOT available today"

edit:

Originally posted by: blackangst1


Wrong as in, you have no idea what youre talking about wrong.

K, here's a task for you, contact every author and correct them, they're obviously not as knowledgeable as you or spidey.

Youre article doesnt mention MPLS which provides it. Start here, then here.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Phokus
Presentation on diffserv:

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~...erv_discussion_2up.pdf

"End-to-End QoS across multiple providers/domains is NOT available today"

edit:

Originally posted by: blackangst1


Wrong as in, you have no idea what youre talking about wrong.

K, here's a task for you, contact every author and correct them, they're obviously not as knowledgeable as you or spidey.

Youre article doesnt mention MPLS which provides it. Start here, then here.

I think you read that quote wrong, it's not saying the technology doesn't exist for end-to-end QOS, it's saying there's an economic problem involved. Look at the entire slide.

Edit: and also overprovisioning

edit: going home and eating dinner will followup if i still have the energy, this has been fun

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Phokus
Presentation on diffserv:

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~...erv_discussion_2up.pdf

"End-to-End QoS across multiple providers/domains is NOT available today"

edit:

Originally posted by: blackangst1


Wrong as in, you have no idea what youre talking about wrong.

K, here's a task for you, contact every author and correct them, they're obviously not as knowledgeable as you or spidey.

Youre article doesnt mention MPLS which provides it. Start here, then here.

I think you read that quote wrong, it's not saying the technology doesn't exist for end-to-end QOS, it's saying there's an economic problem involved. Look at the entire slide.

Edit: and also overprovisioning

edit: going home and eating dinner will followup if i still have the energy, this has been fun

Way to backpeddle lol

I looked at it, and it doesnt address MPLS which every major carrier is using now. And, in relation to (overprovisioning) oversubscription, as you said to spidey, What the FUCK does that have to do with ANY of this? Carriers have been oversubscribing frame-relay for 15 years. Its nothing new, and quite effective.

 

[spidey07]

I think phokus now understands that there is no need for net neutrality, because obviously QoS doesn't do anything. So therefore no need to make a law against it. All just part of "reasonable network management ".

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I think phokus now understands that there is no need for net neutrality, because obviously QoS doesn't do anything. So therefore no need to make a law against it. All just part of "reasonable network management ".

Tell that to a rural hospital who shares a network head with a neighborhood full of P2P-ers and needs to teleconference a surgeon