- Apr 21, 2004
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It took McCain all of minute to flip-flop on the US's commitment to Iraq. It's amazing how low he will go to be considered a true conservative - he'd even put our troops on the line for the sake of his political career. He has no clue at all.
First, he says that we can't expect any real changes for the better in Iraq in the next six months. Then, a minute later, he says that we'll know if Bush's new strategy (new strategy my arse) has worked in the next six months. Sounds like a recipe for failure to me, Mr. Senator.
First, he says that we can't expect any real changes for the better in Iraq in the next six months. Then, a minute later, he says that we'll know if Bush's new strategy (new strategy my arse) has worked in the next six months. Sounds like a recipe for failure to me, Mr. Senator.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, everyone.
With the Senate set for an historic debate on Iraq tomorrow, Baghdad is still reeling today from the deadliest single bombing of the war. The latest in a series of major attacks against Shiites, as more than 20,000 new U.S. troops head to Baghdad for one more chance to stop the fighting.
Here to discuss all that and more -- our first headliner this morning, Senator John McCain.
SEN. McCAIN: Good morning, George.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Welcome back to "This Week."
SEN. McCAIN: Thank you. Thanks for having me back.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, I want to start out by bringing us back to an appearance you had on this program a year ago where we talked about the conditions where U.S. forces would be put into this conflict. Take a look.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: (From videotape.) What should the role of U.S. Forces be if Sunnis and Shiites start to fight each other? Is it right for Americans to sacrifice their lives to keep those communities apart?
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: (From videotape.) No, but the United States can continue to try to build the military and the police and law enforcement to a degree that they could keep them apart. I don't think we could intervene in that kind of violence.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But, senator, isn't that exactly what w re doing right now, sending more troops to Iraq to stop Iraqis from fighting each other?
SEN. McCAIN: We're trying to stop a lot of things, including al Qaeda being returned, including foreign influences, but obviously there is an unacceptable level of sectarian violence. We went into Bosnia and stopped sectarian violence. We went into Kosovo and we stopped sectarian violence.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So how do you justify the switch.
SEN. McCAIN: Let me finish. And so I believe that we can stabilize and then, as I said back a year ago, allow the Iraqi military to be built up to the point where they can take over. Also, they'll be hopefully fighting side by side. George, I'm not saying that this is going to succeed. I believe it has a good chance of succeeding, but I also know the consequences of failure.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But you're not shying away now from the suggestion that American troops are being put in the middle of a Civil war?
SEN. McCAIN: I think the sectarian violence is very serious. In Anbar Province, it's Sunnis and al Qaeda. In the south, it's parts of Basra and other parts of southern Iraq that have been taken over by Iranian influence, Shia militias. It's different in different parts of the country, but your point in Baghdad, it is an incredibly high level of sectarian violence and we can go in and bring about an environment that is at least to a degree where political and economic progress can take place.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So what do you say now to Americans who just think, listen, we should not be there in the middle of Iraqis killing each other? If they want to do that, that's their problem. It's not ours.
SEN. McCAIN: Well, I say to them a number of things, one, there has been a failed policy, and we have paid a very heavy price for it in American blood and treasure and that's one of the great tragedies of this war. I also believe the consequences of failure are such that you will see a level of violence that far exceeds anything that we have seen. You'll see a blood-letting in Baghdad that makes Srebrenica look like a Sunday school picnic. And I believe that we may have to come back at some time or another because the Iranians will be involved, the Sunnis will be involved. Turkey will be -- if the Kurds try to become independent -- will be involved. It'll be a chaotic situation that is in our national security interest to not see take place.
Again, I believe we can succeed. I believe we've got a great general there. I believe that this new strategy has a good chance of success. I'm not guaranteeing it. But I am guaranteeing the consequences of failure.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And as you know, the Senate is going to vote tomorrow or later this week on a resolution disagreeing with the president's plan to send more troops in.
SEN. McCAIN: Yes.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You've called supporters of that "intellectually dishonest."
SEN. McCAIN: I don't think it's appropriate to say that you disapprove of a mission and you don't want to fund it and you don't want it to go, but yet you don't take the action necessary to prevent it. In other words, this is a vote of no confidence in both the mission and the troops who are going over there. I respect the views of my colleagues and my dear friend Chuck Hagel, who is coming on in a few minutes, but I do believe that if you really believe that this is doomed to failure and going to cost American lives, then you should do what's necessary to prevent it from happening, rather than a vote of, quote, "disapproval," which is fundamentally a vote of no confidence in the troops and their mission.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: How did you and Senator Hagel end up in such different places on this?
SEN. McCAIN: Look, Chuck and I have agreed on several issues in the past, but the respect and affection that we have for each other is not in any way impacted by this.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me get back to the policy then on what to do in Iraq because a few months ago you were also on this program where you said if we continued the status quo you wouldn't be able to support the mission anymore. Yet you are doubtful that 20,000 troops is enough. Aren't you?
SEN. McCAIN: I'm worried.
I'm also worried about the Maliki government's ability to really do what we want. They've been showing a lot of weakness in the past. I'm worried that this is not enough troops, but I looked General Petraeus in the eye and I said, "Do you have enough troops?" He said, "If I think I need more, I'll ask for them." He also said if he thought the mission was going to fail, he would tell the president and us.
I would have liked to have seen more, as you know, but apparently, and it's quite a commentary, this is all we got. This is, as I said earlier, all in.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There were a bunch of Democrats, potential Democratic candidates for president in the DNC meeting here in Washington this weekend. All to varying degrees saying we have to take a new course in Iraq.
Senator Hillary Clinton says, first of all, we ought to cap the troop levels there, then she went on to say this.
SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY): (From videotape.) I want to make it very clear that we need to threaten the Iraqi government that we're going to take money away from their troops, not our troops, who still lack body armor and armored vehicles.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Wouldn't that kind of threat give us leverage?
SEN. McCAIN: Oh, I think that we ought to exercise every influence that we can to try to get the government to do what's necessary, but, look, you threaten them too much then they start thinking about what it's going to be like in the neighborhood when we're not there. You run that risk, as well.
I not only am not defending what we've done in the past, I've been a severe critic of what we've done in the past. I believe that this is a chance where we can succeed and it's going to have to have a lot of good things happen, including a government that works, including a military that is sufficient on the part of the Iraqi side, including economic and political maturation, and obviously it's of some concern that the Iranians continue to meddle to some extent in the situation in Iraq. It's very difficult. Took us a long time to get in the situation we're in, and to say that -- and somehow assume that in a few months things are going to get all better, I think, is not realistic.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And in fact, your resolution lays out benchmarks for the Iraqi government to meet, but critics say there are no consequences spelled out if they don't meet these goals, there are no teeth.
SEN. McCAIN: Well, the consequences are obvious. I mean, if they aren't meeting those benchmarks, then obviously the new strategy isn't succeeding, and I can't tell you what the other options are because there are no good options to this. If there was a good option to what we're doing, to sending more young Americans in harm's way, I'd tell you. But they're all bad options, in my view, if this one isn't supported and succeeds.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You say it's all in. How long are you going to give it to work?
SEN. McCAIN: I think in the case of the Iraqi government cooperating and doing what's necessary, we can know fairly well in a few months. I'm not sure how long it takes to be confident that we've done it. There are reports now that some of the real bad guys are leaving Sadr City and going to ground to wait until the situation is better for them. But I know this, that if you can get an area under control and economic and political development takes place, people have an investment in that and in their future. And that really is why it's also up to the Iraqis at the end of the day, but at the beginning of the day, they've got to have an environment where they can leave their homes in safety, where they aren't having these horrific bombings such as we saw yesterday in Baghdad. We've got to get that under control.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: A couple of weeks ago another friend and colleague of yours in the Senate, Senator John Kerry, decided not to run for president in 2008. Here's what he said.
SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MA): (From videotape.) But I've concluded this isn't the time for me to mount a presidential campaign. It is the time to put my energy to work as part of the majority in the Senate to do all I can to end this war and strengthen our security and our ability to fight the real war on terror.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Is there any chance you'll make the same choice, forego a campaign and fight the war, in your way, from the Senate?
SEN. McCAIN: I would hope not. (Laughs.) I would hope that this strategy could show some success. I don't have any doubt as to the, quote, "political risk" that I may be taking in this in this policy that I support and strategy that I support. Compared to what young Americans are doing today in Baghdad and in Kabul and Kandahar, listen, my -- any political ambitions I might have pale in comparison to what young Americans are giving for their country.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, though, sir, there is a perception here in Washington, and perhaps in other parts of the country that the war is weighing down your campaign and that your campaign is losing altitude because of it. Do you feel that?
SEN. McCAIN: Well, I think there's maybe a perception inside the beltway but outside, a lot of Republicans are rallying to this belief that we need to have a strategy that can win and realize the consequences of failure. Many people trust my judgment because they've known me for many years. Look, it's of secondary importance, but I think we're doing just fine and I think polls indicate that.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There's a front page story in "The New York Times" this morning saying that John McCain is embracing advisers whose ads once drew his ire. You're hiring the Bush team that wrote the ads against you in 2000. The team that wrote the Swift Boat ads in 2004 that you called "dishonest and dishonorable" and your campaign manager was responsible for those ads in the Tennessee Senate campaign that many called racist and, as you know, the Democratic National Committee all week long has been pointing attention to this, saying that "straight talk" has been replaced by "whatever it takes." What's your response?
SEN. McCAIN: My response is that these are good people who were doing as they were instructed. They are people who shape the message, don't dictate it, but the second thing is, most of them are good people. They are all good people, otherwise, I wouldn't hire them. And they have done a good job in the campaigns, myriad of campaigns they've been involved in.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And it's no indication that you're going to be running a different kind of campaign this time around?
SEN. McCAIN: We -- the level of trust that people have in me, I'm not about to betray. Am I going to respond to a negative attack if there is one? Obviously I would do so. But I would hope we would do so in an honorable fashion. We will run an honorable campaign. I am -- most people believe that, and I do, too. I'm committed to it.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Before Senator Hagel comes out, I want to show you something he said a couple weeks ago on "Face the Nation." He said, "The party that I first voted for on top of the tank in the Mekong Delta in 1968 is not the party I see today. Fiscal responsibility, engagement of others, pro-trade, personal responsibility, less government. That's not who we are today." Do you agree with that assessment of the Republican Party?
SEN. McCAIN: I agree with Chuck that we came to power in 1994 to change government and government changed us -- spending is out of control. But I believe that we can make significant course adjustments as a party, go back to the principles of Ronald Reagan and Theodore Roosevelt. We're still a right-of-center party. This nation is still a right-of-center nation. And I believe the Democrats are a left-of-center party. So do we need to make significant adjustments, learn the lessons of the 2006 election? Absolutely.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: How about a center party? You know, there's a lot of talk this time around of an independent bid for the White House. Maybe by Senator Hagel, maybe by Mayor Bloomberg of New York. How worried are you that that kind of an independent bid would cripple the Republicans' hopes of getting the White House in 2008?
SEN. McCAIN: I don't know. It is a fact that independent voter registration is rising all over the country, including my home state of Arizona. I am confident that this nation is not a center -- I think they're right. I think they're basically conservative, the majority are basically conservatives, and I think that if we get back on our message, get back to the principles, philosophies and messages of Ronald Reagan and others, I think we'll do just fine. But first we have to get over our state of denial.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're just about out of time. Colts or Bears?
SEN. McCAIN: (Laughs) I've got to say Colts.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm going to go with the Bears. Senator McCain, thanks very much.
SEN. McCAIN: Thank you.
You Republican cheerleaders have no shame. 
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