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McCain should be 5 points ahead and pulling away...

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
3
0
Ok, you can say its 20-20 hindsight, but its what I have said all along.
Despite the 'historical" difficulties McCain faced he could EASILY be ahead.
Here's what McCain should have done.

When he was sure he had the nomination he should not have met with any of the religious wacko's. His first problem was how he went back on his "courageous" stand against the religious extremists. Where would the extremists have gone? Where would the more sane religious oriented voters have gone? They sure as h*ll weren't going to Obama.
To paraphrase McCain. The religious right WERE your prisoners.

His campaign should have come out and said, We Republicans have the right ideas. Things like deregulation and lower taxes are the best policies. Our problem was in the execution. We let the special interests get too involved. I won't have a lobbyist on my campaign and I will do deregulation right. Lower taxes were good. But we didn't cut spending. I will submit a budget that reduces the deficit and I will veto any budget that doesn't, barring any catastrophe.

Senator Obama is a good man. He may make a good President someday. For now, he's too young and inexperienced. Anyone who slanders him will be out of my campaign in a heartbeat.

McCain should barely have gone to the Red states. He should have been after the independents 100 percent of the time. The truth is the right wing press would never love him, and spending any time trying to win them over cost him far more of the centrist voters.

He should have picked a Joe Biden as VP candidate. Someone with impeccable credentials and a clean past.

Basically, McCain had the dream shot. A President and party feeling they had nothing to lose since their chances were slim, nominated a guy who could have swerved towards the middle farther and faster than any other candidate.
After all, Republicans were so anxious they were literally ready to nominate Mitt Romney or Rudy 9-11 for crying out loud.

 

JJChicken

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2007
6,166
12
81
Originally posted by: techs
Ok, you can say its 20-20 hindsight, but its what I have said all along.
Despite the 'historical" difficulties McCain faced he could EASILY be ahead.
Here's what McCain should have done.

When he was sure he had the nomination he should not have met with any of the religious wacko's. His first problem was how he went back on his "courageous" stand against the religious extremists. Where would the extremists have gone? Where would the more sane religious oriented voters have gone? They sure as h*ll weren't going to Obama.
To paraphrase McCain. The religious right WERE your prisoners.

His campaign should have come out and said, We Republicans have the right ideas. Things like deregulation and lower taxes are the best policies. Our problem was in the execution. We let the special interests get too involved. I won't have a lobbyist on my campaign and I will do deregulation right. Lower taxes were good. But we didn't cut spending. I will submit a budget that reduces the deficit and I will veto any budget that doesn't, barring any catastrophe.

Senator Obama is a good man. He may make a good President someday. For now, he's too young and inexperienced. Anyone who slanders him will be out of my campaign in a heartbeat.

McCain should barely have gone to the Red states. He should have been after the independents 100 percent of the time. The truth is the right wing press would never love him, and spending any time trying to win them over cost him far more of the centrist voters.

He should have picked a Joe Biden as VP candidate. Someone with impeccable credentials and a clean past.

Basically, McCain had the dream shot. A President and party feeling they had nothing to lose since their chances were slim, nominated a guy who could have swerved towards the middle farther and faster than any other candidate.
After all, Republicans were so anxious they were literally ready to nominate Mitt Romney or Rudy 9-11 for crying out loud.
They would've stayed home, as they were saying they would.
 

midway

Senior member
Oct 22, 2004
301
0
0
I think lieberman as his VP would have basically guaranteed a win for him. Sure the right wouldn't come out for him, but he'd have been guaranteed the moderate vote IMO.
 

nullzero

Senior member
Jan 15, 2005
670
0
0
Yeap he could of tied this up with lieberman as his VP pick. He would of got almost all the hillary supporters and split the democrats in half. Running as down the center would of guranteed him a victory.
 

midway

Senior member
Oct 22, 2004
301
0
0
It also would have added serious beef to his 'maverick' credentials and allowed him to keep banging away at the experience argument. The pick of Palin completely eviscerated his entire campaign IMO.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
3
0
Originally posted by: Barack Obama
Originally posted by: techs
Ok, you can say its 20-20 hindsight, but its what I have said all along.
Despite the 'historical" difficulties McCain faced he could EASILY be ahead.
Here's what McCain should have done.

When he was sure he had the nomination he should not have met with any of the religious wacko's. His first problem was how he went back on his "courageous" stand against the religious extremists. Where would the extremists have gone? Where would the more sane religious oriented voters have gone? They sure as h*ll weren't going to Obama.
To paraphrase McCain. The religious right WERE your prisoners.

His campaign should have come out and said, We Republicans have the right ideas. Things like deregulation and lower taxes are the best policies. Our problem was in the execution. We let the special interests get too involved. I won't have a lobbyist on my campaign and I will do deregulation right. Lower taxes were good. But we didn't cut spending. I will submit a budget that reduces the deficit and I will veto any budget that doesn't, barring any catastrophe.

Senator Obama is a good man. He may make a good President someday. For now, he's too young and inexperienced. Anyone who slanders him will be out of my campaign in a heartbeat.

McCain should barely have gone to the Red states. He should have been after the independents 100 percent of the time. The truth is the right wing press would never love him, and spending any time trying to win them over cost him far more of the centrist voters.

He should have picked a Joe Biden as VP candidate. Someone with impeccable credentials and a clean past.

Basically, McCain had the dream shot. A President and party feeling they had nothing to lose since their chances were slim, nominated a guy who could have swerved towards the middle farther and faster than any other candidate.
After all, Republicans were so anxious they were literally ready to nominate Mitt Romney or Rudy 9-11 for crying out loud.
They would've stayed home, as they were saying they would.
That's just it. Can you imagine someone who votes single issue like abortion "staying home" rather than vote for a guy who is anti-abortion?
No, their would have been a few less voters and support from the religious and right wing wacko's but he would have gotten lots of independent and centrist votes and support.

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,626
5,923
126
Originally posted by: techs

That's just it. Can you imagine someone who votes single issue like abortion "staying home" rather than vote for a guy who is anti-abortion?
No, their would have been a few less voters and support from the religious and right wing wacko's but he would have gotten lots of independent and centrist votes and support.
yes. they've done it before. the reps' voters are not the professional voters that the dems have. they will stay at home if they don't like what the republicans are putting up there. the dems' traditional base will go an vote dem almost no matter what. the reps voters would rather watch the reps lose than to have a rep they don't like in there.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Well he didn't court the independents well. He tried to expand his base with Palin, but in the end instead of grabbing ex-hillary votse and other independents with her he chose somebody who rather epitomizes what people fear as "fundies", so she's more bark than bite and comes off as a backwoods hick with no competency outside of her immediate comfort zone. A GOOD woman could have really shored up some votes for him, but not somebody who is more fluff than substance. All Palin did was appeal to the far right, which already was going to vote McCain. He saw a female governor but failed to realize she's crazy right and patently ignorant.

Liberman certainly could have worked well.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: midway
The pick of Palin completely eviscerated his entire campaign IMO.
Yep, which is why I call her the gift that keeps no giving. She has been a handgrenade that's gone off before thrown. Just beautiful. Absolute horror show for his campaign :thumbsup:

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,063
495
126
He went negative and got called on it. That is where he went wrong. He had everything going for him after the republican convention and blew it thinking if he went negative people would flood his way once they saw Obama in his light. Obama patiently waited and let the McCain campaign insert the sword into their own heart then twisted it whent hey were done.

Now McCain is going in all directions hoping to find some last second talking point that will resonate with the American people.
 

JJChicken

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2007
6,166
12
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
He went negative and got called on it. That is where he went wrong. He had everything going for him after the republican convention and blew it thinking if he went negative people would flood his way once they saw Obama in his light. Obama patiently waited and let the McCain campaign insert the sword into their own heart then twisted it whent hey were done.

Now McCain is going in all directions hoping to find some last second talking point that will resonate with the American people.
Sad but true
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: Barack Obama
Originally posted by: Genx87
He went negative and got called on it. That is where he went wrong. He had everything going for him after the republican convention and blew it thinking if he went negative people would flood his way once they saw Obama in his light. Obama patiently waited and let the McCain campaign insert the sword into their own heart then twisted it whent hey were done.

Now McCain is going in all directions hoping to find some last second talking point that will resonate with the American people.
Sad but true
It's not that sad. ;)

 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Barack Obama
Originally posted by: Genx87
He went negative and got called on it. That is where he went wrong. He had everything going for him after the republican convention and blew it thinking if he went negative people would flood his way once they saw Obama in his light. Obama patiently waited and let the McCain campaign insert the sword into their own heart then twisted it whent hey were done.

Now McCain is going in all directions hoping to find some last second talking point that will resonate with the American people.
Sad but true
It's not that sad. ;)
It's not that sad but damn I wonder how McCain feels right now. What a terrible campaign.
 

Hugh H

Senior member
Jul 11, 2008
315
0
0
Originally posted by: midway
I think lieberman as his VP would have basically guaranteed a win for him. Sure the right wouldn't come out for him, but he'd have been guaranteed the moderate vote IMO.
The base is much larger than the independents. That and Lieberman sucks. (seriously, Democrats and Republicans dislike him the same).

 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Hugh H
Originally posted by: midway
I think lieberman as his VP would have basically guaranteed a win for him. Sure the right wouldn't come out for him, but he'd have been guaranteed the moderate vote IMO.
The base is much larger than the independents. That and Lieberman sucks. (seriously, Democrats and Republicans dislike him the same).
more importantly, Lieberman was not going to be McCain's VP no matter what.

he was likely one of McCain's top choices, but Sidney was told that nominating Lieberman would have led to a fight on the floor of the convention that he couldn't guarantee winning, opening the potential to be stuck with dead weight like Romney.

Despite the 'historical" difficulties McCain faced he could EASILY be ahead.
I didn't actually read anything in the OP to support this statement. running in the same party as the most unpopular president in history was enough to doom the GOP this year. and there's no real way to run against Bush as forcefully as he might like, since he NEEDS Bush's faithful 20% to vote for him.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
141
106
A rapid raccoon from Appalachia could have run a better campaign than McCain's staff. Hell, John's brother is even calling them out on the negativity and telling them to stop that crap. I don't know what's sadder, a man who claims he's too fat to be executed (like the guy on Death Row) or the way McCain's camp has run this campaign.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,374
25,129
136
Straight out, Joe Biden would not have accepted McCain's VP nomination.

Lieberman would have been an extremely dangerous VP candidate. On every issue except for the war Lieberman and McCain are opposites on the wedge issues of today. Lieberman is very liberal outside of the war. Look at it from the leftist perspective, if Obama had nominated Pat Buchanan to be his VP because they both oppose the war in Iraq, a lot of people would not vote for him. I'm a pretty hardcore leftist, and I would have to think long and hard about that.

McCain didn't do anything particularly wrong. He was swimming against the tide from the beginning. If left to run normally, Obama would have just coasted to a victory. McCain (correctly in my opinion) saw that he was losing the normal campaign and realized that in order to have a chance he needed to take big chances. He did so with Palin, he did so with his ridiculous attack ads. (they were ridiculous on purpose btw.. it was to get people to talk about them) Sure those gambles ended up backfiring on him, but his choices were to certainly lose an election, or take big risks for a chance to win.

He's damaged his personal standing and compromised his morals, that's definitely something he's going to have to live with. As far as electoral strategy goes, I don't blame him one bit.
 

microbial

Senior member
Oct 10, 2008
350
0
0
If McCain had come right out and said, very early on:

"I reject the Bush administration and all the myriad of policy mistakes they have made; and even moreso all the corruption they have foisted on the American public. I now know I was wrong to support this administration and I would now back a resolution to impeach and convict both GWB and Cheney."

....then and only then...might he have had a chance to win...
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
81
Originally posted by: microbial
If McCain had come right out and said, very early on:

"I reject the Bush administration and all the myriad of policy mistakes they have made; and even moreso all the corruption they have foisted on the American public. I now know I was wrong to support this administration and I would now back a resolution to impeach and convict both GWB and Cheney."

....then and only then...might he have had a chance to win...

ahhh... to be young and clueless again... why would he say that since he doesn't believe it? do you believe that he is a pathological liar?

at some point y'all will start to learn that politics is a layer cake, and what you see is just the frosting on the outside...
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
81
Originally posted by: eskimospy

He's damaged his personal standing and compromised his morals, that's definitely something he's going to have to live with. As far as electoral strategy goes, I don't blame him one bit.
that souds like the webster's def for "politician"... There's this rule that needs to get revoked about having to win the election before you can do any of your good things...

let's really have some change!!! we need a co-presidency where the winner from each party works together to make the country a better place... maybe they thumb wrestle when they can't agree...

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
5
0
Anyone who thinks Libermann would have been the answer is dead wrong.

As several have pointed out the base is far bigger than the independents in the middle.

In 2004 37% of voters identified themselves as Republicans, only 26% say they were independents. A lose of 3-4% of the base would be enough to doom him.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Romney would have been a better choice considering the economy. Palin has been an unmitigated disaster, unforced error and all that. Pretty amazing we're even talking about her sniffing the presidency.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,531
2
81
PJ - at this point I'm not sure anyone should pay any attention to your opinions - you are so closed-minded it's beyond belief.

McCain hardly had his dream shot - he's old, the economy is in terrible shape - and, look at the history of presidential elections - when the economy is dragging, the other party almost always wins the presidency.

If anything, the fact that the democratic opposition was either going to be a woman or a black man helped him, I think - you can't tell me that there aren't a handful of states where neither Clinton or Obama have any chance in hell of beating a white man.

The Palin pick - I think they would have been better off if they just let her be what was appealing - an outsider. The fact that she's not a typical politician is one of the things that made people admire her - but now they've simply turned her into an attack dog - and a mis-informed one at that.
 

microbial

Senior member
Oct 10, 2008
350
0
0
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: microbial
If McCain had come right out and said, very early on:

"I reject the Bush administration and all the myriad of policy mistakes they have made; and even moreso all the corruption they have foisted on the American public. I now know I was wrong to support this administration and I would now back a resolution to impeach and convict both GWB and Cheney."

....then and only then...might he have had a chance to win...

ahhh... to be young and clueless again... why would he say that since he doesn't believe it? do you believe that he is a pathological liar?

at some point y'all will start to learn that politics is a layer cake, and what you see is just the frosting on the outside...
Quite frankly I don't know what JM believes or thinks.

My hypothetical point was that this kind of Bush-repudiation message might have put him in a winning position.

As it stands now, Obama has painted JM as a BushIII candidate--and made it stick.
 

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