McCain Open Border Policy

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

What would you do when the nation's population exploded to over 1 billion people and the vast majority of the people ended up being impoverished?

We really can't help reduce poverty in the third world by taking in people from the third world. The people in the third world would be better off if they could receive help where they live, birth control and what not. Check out this great, thought-provoking video that has sometimes been called "Immigration Gumballs":

http://video.google.com/videop...id=5871651411393887069

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

No problem. Just come legally.

Closing off the border can be accomplished without ever digging a post hole. If "legal" is too restrictive, you force those who are desparate to become criminals. Is yearning to be free and have a future worthy of being labeled criminal? The real criminals are those who hide discrimination behind patriotism and nationalism.

Is freedom free?

No, of course not. But are you going to be a greedy, selfish, me-first, uncharitable person who spits on the rest of the unfortunates demanding that they pony up? I was blessed to be born here, blessed to be able to work, blessed to have the priviledge to pay taxes for the benefit of the whole. Jeez, what ass hoards his blessings, yelling "Mine! All mine! None for you!"? At such a point, my opinion is that such an ass has forgotten what being an American is all about. I liken such a person to the character in the Biblical parable of the unforgiving servant: he is forgiven an unpayable debt, yet afterward beats his fellow servant for a debt that is less than a day's wage. You being born here is a blessing you cannot put a price on nor ever truly repay, short of giving up your very life for your country. You think paying taxes gives you the right to refuse another citizenship? The arrogance of it makes me ill.

It seems that YOU have forgotten what America is about. It's about the opportunity to come to this country and succeed or fail on your own merits. Handouts and welfare are the antithesis of America. It rewards the lazy and the foolish by confiscating from the productive members of society.

Take your bible bullshit elsewhere. I don't want your religion, Jesus-freak.

 

[eleison]

Just voted for Mccain. Was going to vote for Romney, but I think McCain is more electable - no way in hell, I want Clinton or Obama to win.

I live in chicago. It seems like I am the only "red" in the sea of "blue"... The women who handed out ballots seems surprised when I told her I was a republican.. .oh well....

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
So, what I heard on the radio this morning driving into work was just lies?

"Hi, I'm John McCain and I approve of this message:

As president, I will build a border fence and work with governors from different states to ensure that this is accomplished. I'll hire more border guards, and deal with illegals the right and human ways. Immediately deport the 2+ million criminals; those that are already here, they'll go back to the end of the line, learn English and will earn their citizenship the right way (no freebies). We will penalize the companies that hired illegals, etc... and we have no tolerant for illegal activities.."

Maybe not verbatim, but that was the message.

that is called a "waffle"

he is like the rest of them, tell the voters whatever they need to hear from him to vote for him

then later after he is elected, he'll sign the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill and give 12 millions of illegal criminals a free ride into the USA

it is all about getting elected , not about what he will really do in office

 

[Pyrokinetic]

Quoting BoberFett: "It seems that YOU have forgotten what America is about. It's about the opportunity to come to this country and succeed or fail on your own merits. Handouts and welfare are the antithesis of America. It rewards the lazy and the foolish by confiscating from the productive members of society.

Take your bible bullshit elsewhere. I don't want your religion, Jesus-freak.[/quote]"



I beg to differ -- so you don't like Bible speak, lets take it on philosophical grounds. What is the purpose of the state? Take it all the way back to the Greeks -- the purpose of the state is to insulate the individual from "bad luck" or events beyond their own control. You live in a community with others, you benefit from a collective which far exceeds your own resources.

Fail or succeed on your own merits? You are laughable. You wanna try that? Go live by yourself in the far reaches of Alaska far from civilization for a year and then talk of your "own merits."

As for "handouts and welfare" you really need to remember that socialism is a form of capitalism. Capitalism in of itself is like a fire, some countries like the US it is more open, more visible, and a few can ride the flames high like a hot spark (Bill Gates). Other countries (like Norway) contain capitalism like an oven and spread the heat around, but you rarely see the flame and innovation is not as fast as it is here. Which is better? Depends on societal values. We have the Bill Gates, but others can get burned and fall through the grate. Also, over 75% of all the wealth in the US is held by the top 5% of the population. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whor...rica/power/wealth.html What is better? Your answer may differ from mine, and that is OK and I respect it. However, that will not stop me from trying to persuade others to rethink their pre-conceived notions about capitalism, welfare, and the common good.

P.S. -- "Jesus Freak" that made me laugh, while true, I must have hit a sensitive nerve there BoberFett. I was paraphrasing often quoted classic literature, and you have a knee-jerk reaction? You got a problem with Jesus? Or perhaps with people who have claimed to know Him?

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
What is the purpose of the state? Take it all the way back to the Greeks -- the purpose of the state is to insulate the individual from "bad luck" or events beyond their own control. You live in a community with others, you benefit from a collective which far exceeds your own resources.

You are wrong. The purpose of the state is to conquer other states and to take their women. In the old days, the US would go down to mexico and conquer it. Next, if the US was like the Greeks we would enslave the mexicans making them fill our bathtubs with hot water while we have massive orgies feasting on re-appropriated lamb meat...

Also, if illegal aliens try to cross our borders asking for "a little land and water".. we would kick then into a big well, and yea out, "This is sparta!!!!!""""

We would then have 300 us citizens dressed in loin cloths protecting a little the border path which I think is somewhere arround California, and Nevada...

But now a days, we are more civilized, and most citizens just want these invaders deported.

 

[piasabird]

Too bad Mexico does not have the same open border policy for people in the USA that want to move there.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
So, what I heard on the radio this morning driving into work was just lies?

"Hi, I'm John McCain and I approve of this message:

As president, I will build a border fence and work with governors from different states to ensure that this is accomplished. I'll hire more border guards, and deal with illegals the right and humane way. Immediately deport the 2+ million criminals; those that are already here, they'll go back to the end of the line, learn English and will earn their citizenship the right way (no freebies). We will penalize the companies that hired illegals, etc... and we have no tolerant for illegal activities.."

Maybe not verbatim, but that was the message.

the bolded part is why far-right conservatives have such a problem with McCain.

it's also the only reason why he has any shot at all in a general election... Mittens has done everything in his power to alienate and reject the republican hispanic support that Bush built up.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: neodyn55
To me, it seems like any immigration reform will have to some how address two crucial issues:

if there is "amnesty" of any form for illegals, does that mean everyone waiting for citizenship - the legal way - will also automatically qualify for this "amnesty"? anything else would be unfair.

How is USCIS, an organization that is grossly understaffed and overworked (speaking from personal experience) supposed to manage the legalization of 10 million+ people?

This is an excellent post and only someone who works for USCIS or is/has recently dealt with immigration in the US would appreciate this. I was told by 'experts' in the field that the USCIS is funded by immigration fees. I don't know if that's true, I only know the fees are expensive. If there is going to be an amnesty I hope they are required to pay the same fees (or more for being illegal) and wait *behind* those who are already in process. My wife is a non-US citizen and the fees from legally immigrating to becoming a US citizen are nearly $4000 and the process takes well over 3 years.

Same as you Robor. Every time something comes on TV about illegals given special treatment for a path to citizenship she throws a fit. She also works with someone who came to this country illegally, and got his perm green card (bypassing the 2 year conditional green card) within 6 months.

Makes me grind my teeth. Fucking compassion my ass. It flies in the face of those who work hard to get here the proper way.