McCain Defeated...Again

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Talk about a crushing mandate by the people. The enormous majorities held by Democrats in both the House and Senate mean Obama and the Democrats can pass the legislation they want without dealing with GOP-generated gridlock.

Remember McCain? That old dude who got spanked like child last November? It seems he is a glutton for punishment, reminding us how irrelevant he is with each passing day. Today the Senate defeated Sidney's version of a stimulus plan 57-40.

Meanwhile Reid has the Republican votes necessary to reach the 60 votes needed to pass Obama's stimulus plan.

It seems to me, if the American people actually cared about the GOP agenda, they would have elected more than 40 of them to the Senate.

Text

The Senate has killed an alternative economic stimulus plan by Sen. John McCain that would have cut income and payroll taxes but spent far less than President Obama's plan.

The party-line 57-40 vote against McCain's $421 billion plan came Thursday as a group of moderate Democrats and Republicans struggled to cut up to $100 billion from Obama's version.

McCain's plan would have cut the bottom two income tax brackets and lowered corporate income taxes. It also would have extended unemployment benefits and provide money to repair and replace military equipment worn out in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama defeated McCain for the presidency last fall.

Text

Democratic Senate leaders said this afternoon that they have the votes to pass the stimulus bill and suggested they have little interest in making further changes to win more Republican support.

Senators began voting on a series of amendments to the measure on Thursday afternoon. In the chamber's first vote to alter the bill, senators defeated Sen. John McCain's $425 billion alternative to the package.

After considering a slew of amendments, it is possible there could be a final Senate vote on the stimulus bill later tonight.

Earlier Thursday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., told reporters he has the votes -- with no further changes -- to pass the economic stimulus bill.

"We believe we do" have the votes, Reid said. "We believe we can find two Republicans of goodwill to do the right thing for their country."

Reid had also said he believed all 58 Democrats would vote for the bill. With Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., absent this evening, Democrats would need three Republicans to side with them to receive the 60 votes needed to pass the measure.

"Has bipartisanship failed?" asked Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. "So far it's not working, but it takes two to tango and so far the Republicans aren't dancing. The hard right has a stranglehold on most of the Republicans."

Meantime, moderate senators have been meeting today to "scrub" wasteful spending from the bill. Reid said he is happy to talk to those senators, but doesn't feel compelled to support their cuts.

"The question is: Do they work in an effort to strengthen the bill or destroy the bill?" Reid said.

Schumer also suggested it is irrelevant whether the bill gets more Republican support.

He said that three months from now, "it will vanish in the wind how many votes we got, as long as we pass it."

Still, the senators spending the day trying to trim the bill seem convinced Reid has miscalculated and needs their support to pass the measure.

"I would say to the majority leader that his success depends on the success of this group," said Maine Sen. Susan Collins.
Senators Meet to 'Scrub' Bill of Wasteful Spending

A group of 16 senators was meeting today behind closed doors to hammer out a package of cuts.

According to Collins, R-Maine, the group achieved an "in-depth scrubbing of the bill, going line by line item by item."

Emerging from the meeting for a midday break, Sen. Joe Lieberman said the group of Democrats and five Republicans were at a "breakthrough" moment.

Ohio Sen. George Voinovich, one of the moderate Republicans who participated in the closed-door meeting, told ABC News he expects the group to get behind lowering the overall size of the bill to $750 billion.

To sell the package, Voinovich also said he expects several governors to come to Washington, D.C., next week to vouch for the speed with which the proposed federal projects could begin.

Collins also said President Obama had convinced her Wednesday that the bill needs to be larger than $650 billion, but she would not say what the top line would be after the scrubbing is complete. Collins said the senators "agreed to tens of billions of adjustments."

Much of the funding they cut will be redirected to an omnibus funding bill for regular government appropriations. For instance, Collins said the stimulus had funding for pandemic flu preparation, something that concerns all senators but should not be in a stimulus.

Despite efforts to cut wasteful spending, it continues to grow.

The bill was $819 billion when it passed the House. It hit the Senate floor Monday at $887 billion. And after a flurry of amendments, it now stands at $920 billion.

Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., said on MSNBC this morning that he has already identified more than $100 billion in spending he considers extraneous -- fueling GOP arguments that the measure has gotten out of hand.

"You really did have these proposals going into the appropriations committees and people filling up buckets with projects," Webb said. "My staff went through this thing a couple of nights ago. We found more than $100 billion of items that really don't meet those criteria and that's part of the debate we're having right now. Do we add something with those or can we take those out?"

Debate on the Senate floor got heated this morning.

"This bill stinks," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. "The process that brought it here stinks. Not a single Republican in the House voted for it. Maybe every Republican is just crazy, I don't think so."

There are still an undetermined number of amendments to be voted on, including the McCain alternative -- a $475 billion bill that includes $275 billion in tax cuts -- and a still unwritten amendment to come from the centrist group that would cut extraneous spending.

But Democratic leaders insist there is very little extraneous spending. Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said the so-called "pork" provisions in the bill were minuscule in relation to the 735-page bill.

"If I could do this in a symbolic way, that their measures account for one page," Durbin said, ripping the sheet of paper. "One page of this bill. You listen to the things that they list, that they found so objectionable, they count, in dollar terms, to about one page of this bill."

In the House, meantime, leaders of the fiscally conservative Democratic Blue Dog Coalition sent a letter Wednesday to Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer urging more scrubbing of the stimulus bill when the House revisits the bill in conference.

Two of the eight leaders who signed the letter joined the unanimous House Republican conference in voting against the stimulus bill last week in the House.

The letter notes that "while a number of Blue Dogs voted against the package considered in the House, many of those who did support it did so with serious reservations and the conviction that the package should and would be improved through Senate consideration."

"Now that the Senate is debating its stimulus and recovery package, reports indicate certain senators, including Sen. [Ben] Nelson of Nebraska and Sen. [Susan] Collins of Maine, are engaged in a bipartisan effort to pare further spending. We believe that's a highly worthwhile goal, and that there are additional provisions that would be better left for consideration in regular order," wrote the Blue Dogs.

"We look forward to working with you to achieve that goal and ensure that any final stimulus and recovery package is properly focused to achieve the results the American people expect and deserve. "
It's going to be a long eight years for the GOP.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's going to be a long eight years for the GOP.

Don't forget... a lot of people voted against Bush and the republicans Iand Sarah Palin) not for Obama. He just happened to be on the opposite ticket. The democrats keep shoving crap like this latest stimulus plan down Americans throats and the democratic majority will be short lived.

Historically in times of a recession the incumbent party usually loses. Hopefully a prolonged recession is the worst we will endure.
 

AFMatt

Senior member
Aug 14, 2008
248
0
0
Rudder brings up a good point. Polls already show support for this so-called stimulus has dropped quite a bit as more and more people hear about what kind of crap is in it. All I can say is Pelosi better hope this bill actually does something to boost the economy or she and the rest of her band of bandits can likely kiss their asses goodbye.

To me, this looks like a bill that started with some tax cuts then had every possible earmark they intended to add to future bills piled on it, so they aren't labeled "earmarks."
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
so rather than a post about how excited you are about the Obama plan and how awesome it is that it passed... you're posting a troll bait thread about how great it is to beat the other team?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It seems to me, if the American people actually cared about the GOP agenda, they would have elected more than 40 of them to the Senate.
Well maybe they actually believed that DC would "change" this time around, and a new era of bi-partisan politics would begin...? Crazy, I know... wtf were we thinking!? :confused:

From the article:
Despite efforts to cut wasteful spending, it continues to grow.

The bill was $819 billion when it passed the House. It hit the Senate floor Monday at $887 billion. And after a flurry of amendments, it now stands at $920 billion.

Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., said on MSNBC this morning that he has already identified more than $100 billion in spending he considers extraneous -- fueling GOP arguments that the measure has gotten out of hand.
Fucking disgusting.

How can you be proud of your party?!
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Jp, do you have an opinion on whether this is a good or bad bill??

Or are you just crowing that your side won??
 

AFMatt

Senior member
Aug 14, 2008
248
0
0
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It seems to me, if the American people actually cared about the GOP agenda, they would have elected more than 40 of them to the Senate.

Well maybe they actually believed that DC would "change" this time around, and a new era of bi-partisan politics would begin...? Crazy, I know... wtf were we thinking!? :confused:

From the article:
Despite efforts to cut wasteful spending, it continues to grow.

The bill was $819 billion when it passed the House. It hit the Senate floor Monday at $887 billion. And after a flurry of amendments, it now stands at $920 billion.

Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., said on MSNBC this morning that he has already identified more than $100 billion in spending he considers extraneous -- fueling GOP arguments that the measure has gotten out of hand.
Fucking disgusting.

Damn right it is disgusting. This crap pisses me off more and more every day. Create an atmosphere of a national emergency/dire need and you couldn't wish for a better opportunity to attach a bunch of bullshit spending to a bill.
And a preemptive NO!, I do not claim a fucking party. Yes, I am pissed.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
The Democrats won't keep this majority for long if they insist on pissing people off.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,627
54,579
136
Originally posted by: AFMatt
Rudder brings up a good point. Polls already show support for this so-called stimulus has dropped quite a bit as more and more people hear about what kind of crap is in it. All I can say is Pelosi better hope this bill actually does something to boost the economy or she and the rest of her band of bandits can likely kiss their asses goodbye.

To me, this looks like a bill that started with some tax cuts then had every possible earmark they intended to add to future bills piled on it, so they aren't labeled "earmarks."

Actually it was the other way around. Tax cuts are generally not considered to be particularly effective or timely stimulus, so the measure was originally just stimulus spending/rebates. (at least under the theory of economics that has you doing stimulus packages to begin with) Tax cuts were largely added in as a bipartisan concession to Republican lawmakers.
 

AFMatt

Senior member
Aug 14, 2008
248
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: AFMatt
Rudder brings up a good point. Polls already show support for this so-called stimulus has dropped quite a bit as more and more people hear about what kind of crap is in it. All I can say is Pelosi better hope this bill actually does something to boost the economy or she and the rest of her band of bandits can likely kiss their asses goodbye.

To me, this looks like a bill that started with some tax cuts then had every possible earmark they intended to add to future bills piled on it, so they aren't labeled "earmarks."

Actually it was the other way around. Tax cuts are generally not considered to be particularly effective or timely stimulus, so the measure was originally just stimulus spending/rebates. (at least under the theory of economics that has you doing stimulus packages to begin with) Tax cuts were largely added in as a bipartisan concession to Republican lawmakers.

I understand your point about tax cuts vs economy. Should have said rebates. Either way, any bill with the words rebate or tax cut in it seem to make more people feel at ease.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: AFMatt
Rudder brings up a good point. Polls already show support for this so-called stimulus has dropped quite a bit as more and more people hear about what kind of crap is in it. All I can say is Pelosi better hope this bill actually does something to boost the economy or she and the rest of her band of bandits can likely kiss their asses goodbye.

To me, this looks like a bill that started with some tax cuts then had every possible earmark they intended to add to future bills piled on it, so they aren't labeled "earmarks."

Actually it was the other way around. Tax cuts are generally not considered to be particularly effective or timely stimulus, so the measure was originally just stimulus spending/rebates. (at least under the theory of economics that has you doing stimulus packages to begin with) Tax cuts were largely added in as a bipartisan concession to Republican lawmakers.

I'm don't quite understand why people seem to think that tax cuts are going to be an effective stimulant. When people are in "hide the money in the mattress" mode from fear of another depression, the only entity with the confidence to spend is the government. Businesses need projects to put people to work so they don't start laying off employees.

Giving people a $1,000 check that they aren't going to spend isn't going to save anyone's job.
 

Overgloc

Senior member
Nov 2, 2003
467
0
71
Why don't they vote then if that can pass it? Cause they know it FULL OF SHIT. All 500 millions people in the USA Don't Like it.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Obama is sounding more like Bush every day. CATASTROPHE!!! DOOOOOM!!!! MILLIONS OF UNEMPLOYED!!!!!!! SIGN MY PLAN QUICK!!!!!!!! DONT READ IT JUST SIGN!!!!!!
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
Originally posted by: Overgloc
Why don't they vote then if that can pass it? Cause they know it FULL OF SHIT. All 500 millions people in the USA Don't Like it.

Did every woman in the states have a baby today or something?

Tell me you're not American.
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Originally posted by: Overgloc
Why don't they vote then if that can pass it? Cause they know it FULL OF SHIT. All 500 millions people in the USA Don't Like it.

Did every woman in the states have a baby today or something?

Tell me you're not American.
Try to keep up...

I'm not American, I hadn't heard about this.

Apologies Overgloc. :)
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Originally posted by: Overgloc
Why don't they vote then if that can pass it? Cause they know it FULL OF SHIT. All 500 millions people in the USA Don't Like it.

Did every woman in the states have a baby today or something?

Tell me you're not American.
Try to keep up...
Remember how well the "57 states" comment worked for the McCain camp? :laugh:

That's nice you guys are keeping busy, though.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,459
6,691
126
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
The Democrats won't keep this majority for long if they insist on pissing people off.

I don't know if you've noticed, but we just passed through 8 of the worst years in American history under an arrogant dictatorial prick who shoved his agenda down our throats.

People like the OP, in my opinion at least, are the cancerous fallout that you so accurately predict. It's pay back time for lots of pissed off folk, baby.

But as we all really know but won't admit, is that an eye for an eye leads to blindness.

If the Democrats can rise above the disgusting level the Republicans live at, then they too will fail.

But when you deal with assholes who won't take an olive branch, they will be crushed by a mighty wave. The public demanding change will eat them for lunch. And nobody will be crying at their loss but other assholes just like them.

It is the duty of every American to think of America first and knock off this party before country bull shit.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
So, if this bail somehow fails to stimulate our economy as we hope... do we blame ourselves, since obama can do no wrong?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
So, if this bail somehow fails to stimulate our economy as we hope... do we blame ourselves, since obama can do no wrong?
Why even wait that long? There are plenty already blaming him for failure and he's been on the job for about two weeks. Join the party.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
The "ignore" feature is going to be the best part of the new forums.
:laugh:

FuseTalk already has an "ignore" user feature that lets you skip over all my threads. Didn't you get the memo?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Talk about a crushing mandate by the people. The enormous majorities held by Democrats in both the House and Senate mean Obama and the Democrats can pass the legislation they want without dealing with GOP-generated gridlock.
The American people, even those who voted for Obama, do not agree with you. Current polls show only 38% support for the Democrat plan.

It seems to me, if the American people actually cared about the GOP agenda, they would have elected more than 40 of them to the Senate.
Let Congress pass this train wreck of a stimulus package in its current form...the Democrats are burning through goodwill at an astonishing rate.

Why even wait that long? There are plenty already blaming him for failure and he's been on the job for about two weeks. Join the party.
He has certainly gotten off to a slow start...the controversies surrounding his appointments are not helping, as it is bringing into question his judgement.

Welcome to the big leagues, former junior Senator from Illinois.



 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
The "ignore" feature is going to be the best part of the new forums.
:laugh:

FuseTalk already has an "ignore" user feature that lets you skip over all my threads. Didn't you get the memo?

Well unfortunately in P&N when a shithead like yourself creates a topic it blocks anyone else from making a new thread on that topic without the moronic slant.