McCain Can't Quit John Hagee

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1fRjw2DsE&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNi7tPanUA&NR=1

I'm kinda tired of listening to the "D's" religious picks.... I think it was posted on here A lot!!!


How about we find out who the "R's" are picking! Funny as no one seems to care about who McCain "proud and honored..." I don't get it... How could you even consider to vote for McCain after watching this?

Got to admit when your endorsed by a current failed US president and then you readily and eagerly WANT to be endorsed by a totally whacked out nut job....???????

Just goes to show you how screwed up this country is... Esp, when hagee says crap like....... If you don't vote for mccain and when judgment day comes... Basically the underlying message is... If you don't vote republican then your not going to heaven.

I guess no one sees a problem with this!!!!

 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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Here's the difference, Hagee hates catholics and so do a lot of southern baptists, so that's where the lack of outrage comes from.

Obama has a lot of white supporters, many of whom aren't too keen on hearing the anti-whitey, anti-USA rhetoric.

The best part about this whole thing is Dobson strong arming McCain and as much as McCain would love to tell him to go to hell, he can't. So Dobson is going to cry in his soup and stomp his feet until McCain 100% adopts his platform.

Gotta love the tax exempt status of all of these clowns.

 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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The difference is this: politicians (like McCain) will cozy up to just about anyone at election time to try and get $$$ and votes. They all do it all the time, it doesn't mean they actually support or endorce that person/organization or their views. What would worry me is if McCain was a regular follower of this wackjob before the election time, if he really believed any of the nonsense this Hagee guy is spewing......
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: PokerGuy

What would worry me is if McCain was a regular follower of this wackjob before the election time, if he really believed any of the nonsense this Hagee guy is spewing......
It bothers me just as much that he's "cozy up to" hate mongers like Hagee. There are only two possibilities:

1. McCain accepts Hagee's beliefs and agenda, in which case, he's as much a brainless, bigoted POS as Hagee and his ilk.

2. He doesn't really accept Hagee's beliefs and agenda, in which case he's a blatant, lying whore.

I once respected McCain, but he sold out a long time ago, when he was running for President against Bush, and Karl Rove's machine swift boated him with the same tactics they used against John Kerry and Max Cleland.

I wouldn't have expected him to support the Democratic candidate. McCain could have shown some integrity and class by simply standing silent, but instead, he stood on that stage with George W. Bush and actively supported the man who became the Traitor In Chief, the man directly responsible for squandering the lives of 4,013 American troops in Iraq as of 4/3/08 5:58 pm EDT.
:(
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,576
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mccain already has the nom locked up. so for dems to attack him on this would be wasting their time when they could be attacking the dem they don't want nominated.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
You're willing to accept your own delusions is what I see.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
You're willing to accept your own delusions is what I see.
would it be racist to mention the pot calling the kettle black?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
So, that's how you're going to try to split a hair to explain the blatant hypocrisy where Obama has to renounce Wright's views, but McCain gets a pass on Hagee's?

Sorry, but I don't care whether it's 20 years or 20 minutes, the candidate allying with someone who espouses bigotry - and Hagee's is far worse, IMO - is the issue regardless.

In fact McCain's is the worse of the two as well because it shows his very current position to get close to Hagee, instead of something from a long time ago.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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As an liberal and someone extremely unlikely to vote for McCain, I do not personally hate McCain, and above all I can sympathize with the very difficult political position McCain is put in with people like Hagee and Dobson. Or for that matter GWB. All of those are somewhat like the old saying about women. Can't live with them, can't live without them.

And I have a feeling that most days, McCain would like to just tell them to go to hell and shove it up sideways, but he can't. Politics make for strange bedfellows as they say. The dems have far fewer problems in that area this year. In 2008, its just McCain's Karma. Karma killed him in 2000, can he beat it this time? The guy is a conservatives conservative yet he gets painted as a liberal by Limbaugh.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
You're willing to accept your own delusions is what I see.
would it be racist to mention the pot calling the kettle black?
I refer you to the post following yours by Craig. You are delusional, now show me mine.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
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Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
So, that's how you're going to try to split a hair to explain the blatant hypocrisy where Obama has to renounce Wright's views, but McCain gets a pass on Hagee's?

Sorry, but I don't care whether it's 20 years or 20 minutes, the candidate allying with someone who espouses bigotry - and Hagee's is far worse, IMO - is the issue regardless.

In fact McCain's is the worse of the two as well because it shows his very current position to get close to Hagee, instead of something from a long time ago.
I don't think it's hair splitting to accept that a certain degree of pandering is necessary.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
So, that's how you're going to try to split a hair to explain the blatant hypocrisy where Obama has to renounce Wright's views, but McCain gets a pass on Hagee's?

Sorry, but I don't care whether it's 20 years or 20 minutes, the candidate allying with someone who espouses bigotry - and Hagee's is far worse, IMO - is the issue regardless.

In fact McCain's is the worse of the two as well because it shows his very current position to get close to Hagee, instead of something from a long time ago.
I don't think it's hair splitting to accept that a certain degree of pandering is necessary.
So, you are of the view that there was nothing wrong with Barak's 'pandering' and that he should not have had to say anything against Wright's views?

Are you consistent in that standard where you are so forgiving of McCain?

Your previous post suggests otherwise, where instead of applying the standard consistently, you try to argue why Obama should be treated differently, over the 20 years.

And trying to say one's wrong and the other right as you did was indeed splitting a hair.

What does hair splitting mean, anyway? It means trying to create justification for differentiating between things by exaggerating what is actually a very tiny difference.

To say that John McCain is RIGHT to ally with Hagee, simply because he's doing it NOW rather than years ago as well, I think is a classic example of trying to do just that. It's saying, 'hey, here's some difference between the two, however irrelevant, so let's grab and run with it to justify not holding him to the same standard and ignore the fact that the actually relevant issue, of allying with bigotry, is even stronger in the McCain example'.

Can it be much clearer?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Lemon law

... and above all I can sympathize with the very difficult political position McCain is put in with people like Hagee and Dobson. Or for that matter GWB. All of those are somewhat like the old saying about women. Can't live with them, can't live without them.
The world would be far better without any of those three assholes. I won't cut McCain any slack for whoring out to any of them for their endorsement.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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*every* politician panders to whatever groups he can reasonably use to get him money and votes. Democrat or republican makes no difference, that's the reality. If Limbaugh is an idiot but millions listen to him, then McCain will do whatever is needed to get him on board, even if he doesn't agree with Limbaugh himself. After he's elected, he can ignore Limbaugh again.

That part is just the reality of politics, I'm realistic about that.

McCain standing with Hagee or not saying anything to "reject and repudiate" falls in that mode, he's just doing what is needed to get the votes/money. I don't think any less of McCain for that, it's what *all* politicians of every stripe do. After he's elected, I'm confident McCain will ignore crazies like Hagee, he's shown the willingness to do that during his career.

Obama on the other hand isn't just posing for a photo op with that idiot Wright to get some votes or support after which he can ignore him if he gets elected. He proclaimed Wright to be his moral compas, he's a close friend of his, and he attended that wacko church for 20 years. That is waaaaay more damaging in my mind than simply taking money/support where you can to get elected. It says that either Obama has a severe lack of judgement, or he actually believes the same crap that Wright is spewing. Either way, bad news.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: PokerGuy
*every* politician panders to whatever groups he can reasonably use to get him money and votes. Democrat or republican makes no difference, that's the reality. If Limbaugh is an idiot but millions listen to him, then McCain will do whatever is needed to get him on board, even if he doesn't agree with Limbaugh himself. After he's elected, he can ignore Limbaugh again.

That part is just the reality of politics, I'm realistic about that.

McCain standing with Hagee or not saying anything to "reject and repudiate" falls in that mode, he's just doing what is needed to get the votes/money. I don't think any less of McCain for that, it's what *all* politicians of every stripe do. After he's elected, I'm confident McCain will ignore crazies like Hagee, he's shown the willingness to do that during his career.

Obama on the other hand isn't just posing for a photo op with that idiot Wright to get some votes or support after which he can ignore him if he gets elected. He proclaimed Wright to be his moral compas, he's a close friend of his, and he attended that wacko church for 20 years. That is waaaaay more damaging in my mind than simply taking money/support where you can to get elected. It says that either Obama has a severe lack of judgement, or he actually believes the same crap that Wright is spewing. Either way, bad news.
Congrats on making Loki's hair-splitting look good in comparison.

So, your rule is that Obama's being allied with someone for decades of service and renouncing the objectionable views is a problem, but McCain's embracing a worse bigot without any renunciation of the bigotry is not a problem, since the motivation is pure crass politics?

You know, it's the moist disgusting criminals who use the 'everyone does it' excuse. It's called projecting. The worst liars say 'everyone lies', the worst thieves often say 'everyone steals (or would like to), and so on. What a horrible plitical stance to say you could care less how much your guy supports the worst evils, as long as his motive is pure - purely to get power, that is. Is there any group worse than you, at this point?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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Originally posted by: PokerGuy
*every* politician panders to whatever groups he can reasonably use to get him money and votes. Democrat or republican makes no difference, that's the reality. If Limbaugh is an idiot but millions listen to him, then McCain will do whatever is needed to get him on board, even if he doesn't agree with Limbaugh himself. After he's elected, he can ignore Limbaugh again.

That part is just the reality of politics, I'm realistic about that.

McCain standing with Hagee or not saying anything to "reject and repudiate" falls in that mode, he's just doing what is needed to get the votes/money. I don't think any less of McCain for that, it's what *all* politicians of every stripe do. After he's elected, I'm confident McCain will ignore crazies like Hagee, he's shown the willingness to do that during his career.

Obama on the other hand isn't just posing for a photo op with that idiot Wright to get some votes or support after which he can ignore him if he gets elected. He proclaimed Wright to be his moral compas, he's a close friend of his, and he attended that wacko church for 20 years. That is waaaaay more damaging in my mind than simply taking money/support where you can to get elected. It says that either Obama has a severe lack of judgement, or he actually believes the same crap that Wright is spewing. Either way, bad news.
So it's OK for McCain, after calling these people "agents of intolerance", to suck up to them for political expediency. But it isn't OK for Obama? IMHO, McCain is doing the same thing he has a reputation for not doing. He's fake. Don't believe me? Look at all those lobbyists on his campaign team.
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
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Like someone said, McCain has really sold out lol. Man I still got alot of respect for McCain...I think. I wish I could believe McCain will be the "Maverick" if he has the presidency and tell all the loons to GTFO. But at the end of day I have to vote by what one says and who is behind that person to. So sorry John, can't do it. Can't vote for ya. I know you need the bigots, the macho men, the loons to get where you need to be. But its just to much.

Now about Obama. I keep seeing people throw Wright up against him. And obviously is a concern and/or is getting traction with white people. But exactly what is it about Wright that makes you think he is a "nutjob" racist who is also part of the "hate America 1st" crowd? I watched all the youtube I could on wright. I saw enthusiasm, not lunacy. I saw a recount of history, not anti-Americanism. If you don't like it...tough shit. You were probably looking for any excuse you could to not vote Obama. And you know what I think Obama knows that. He wasn't going to get your vote anyways. He is not going to throw away his friend for you. Obama just told you go fuck yourself. HAHAHAH.

 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,295
959
126
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
So, that's how you're going to try to split a hair to explain the blatant hypocrisy where Obama has to renounce Wright's views, but McCain gets a pass on Hagee's?

Sorry, but I don't care whether it's 20 years or 20 minutes, the candidate allying with someone who espouses bigotry - and Hagee's is far worse, IMO - is the issue regardless.

In fact McCain's is the worse of the two as well because it shows his very current position to get close to Hagee, instead of something from a long time ago.
Yea, there is no difference between 20 years and 20 minutes....:roll:
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,178
4,382
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Hagee is far more anti-american and more homophobic than Wright is anti-usa/racist.

As far as "anti-usa":
They both say God will "damn" America for sins. Wright says for the oppression of blacks and others, and for warmongering policies.
Hagee says God damns America for not supporting Israel enough, for gays, for illegal immigrants, and destroyed NO by Katrina for sin.... God will send terrorists too (tho I thought Allah did that ?!?!?!)

As far as the "hate-speech" goes:
Wright called the US govt US of KKKA. He rails against the govt for alot of other things as well.
Hagee calls Catholics the "Great Whore... allied with Hitler". He hates gays, says all muslims are programmed killers, mocks slavery, and says we need to start war w/ Iran to bring Armageddon. Uh huh...


I've actually watched the much of the extended wright sermons after the whole Obama thing blew up, and they are far less sensational than the few soundbites suggest. I don't see all the racist shit everyone on the right wants to stir up. Most of his rants are against the govt, and the govt has done some pretty fucked up shit to black people, and not just in "ancient history." In Wrights lifetime the govt segregated the army they fought in, gave the shitty assignments and equip to blacks, did medical testing on blacks, supported racist Jim Crow laws, denied them fair voting rights, and attacked them with police dogs. and Forget all the conspiracy theories, even tho many blacks believe as plausible (ie FBI/CIA killed MLK, etc.)
Considering many whites supported these policies, and added in lynchings, church bombings, assasinations and cross burnings on their own, I'm willing to give blacks some latitude on this provided its the "Forgive but not Forget" variety.

If I was in the black boomer generation, I'd be pretty pissed to. Not saying its right or healthy, but they have a hell of a good reason to be pissed. shit like that doesn't go away fast.

Even then most of what he preaches is self-reliance, self-respect, education, and responsibility of community and family. Considering the level of broken homes, 1 in 4 young black males in prison, rampant poverty, violence and poor education in the black community, it seems clear modern black culture is broken and needs severe healing. He seems to provide a reasonable prescription. Its this message that Obama is bringing and widening to the country as a whole.
[Wright and] Obama are not Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton black leaders. Obama is not talking about welfare and handouts and victimisation, but about people pulling themselves up and forgiveness and reconsiliation. Sorry, but so far the "kill whitey" message from Trinity doesn't exist other than in some very overstretched logic and soundbites.

Now compare that to Hagee. If someone can provide similar vids of Wright and Obama on "kill whitey" with stupid posterboards like Hagee's with some ugly chick riding a Liger thats supposed to be the "Great Whore" Catholic Church carrying the blood of the Jews they've been conspired with Hitler and over 800 more years to spill..... then I'll rethink my feelings on Wright and then Obama.

Hagee is just preaching hate and intolerance and violence towards others. So what part of Hagee's message does McCain endorse??? People are worried about Obama and white voters for the fall, McCain is going to have big trouble w/ this nut and the pivotal swing Catholic vote. The anti-"fucking hypocrite" voters as well.

I liked McCain in 2000. Now he's buddied up with the agents of intolerance is railed against. He's BFF with Lieberdouche and has a hard-on for war w/ Iran. Throw in he wants Scalia and Alito types for the SOCUS, I have some serious misgivings about supporting him again.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,178
4,382
136
Originally posted by: Generator
Like someone said, McCain has really sold out lol. Man I still got alot of respect for McCain...I think. I wish I could believe McCain will be the "Maverick" if he has the presidency and tell all the loons to GTFO. But at the end of day I have to vote by what one says and who is behind that person to. So sorry John, can't do it. Can't vote for ya. I know you need the bigots, the macho men, the loons to get where you need to be. But its just to much.

Now about Obama. I keep seeing people throw Wright up against him. And obviously is a concern and/or is getting traction with white people. But exactly what is it about Wright that makes you think he is a "nutjob" racist who is also part of the "hate America 1st" crowd? I watched all the youtube I could on wright. I saw enthusiasm, not lunacy. I saw a recount of history, not anti-Americanism. If you don't like it...tough shit. You were probably looking for any excuse you could to not vote Obama. And you know what I think Obama knows that. He wasn't going to get your vote anyways. He is not going to throw away his friend for you. Obama just told you go fuck yourself. HAHAHAH.
:beer: Much of what I spent forever typing in a whole lot fewer words lol
 

Duwelon

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: Hafen
Hagee is just preaching hate and intolerance and violence towards others.
What are you talking about? When did Hagee ever preach hate, and especially when did he preach violence towards others?

Warning people God will punish them for their sins is not preaching violence against others, but rather it's your ilk's outright lie in an attempt to shoot the messenger. If you do have some audio or video of Hagee condoning violence against others though, i'll completely denounce him myself.

 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,576
1
0
if this is the best the left can come up with, it's going to be a painful campaign for whomever the nominee on the left is
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
So, that's how you're going to try to split a hair to explain the blatant hypocrisy where Obama has to renounce Wright's views, but McCain gets a pass on Hagee's?

Sorry, but I don't care whether it's 20 years or 20 minutes, the candidate allying with someone who espouses bigotry - and Hagee's is far worse, IMO - is the issue regardless.

In fact McCain's is the worse of the two as well because it shows his very current position to get close to Hagee, instead of something from a long time ago.
20 minutes is = to 20 years? whatever:roll:

Looking for support from a racist church McCain = Obama Being a part of a racist church. whatever:roll:

both are deuchebags. Clinton isn't religous in my view she just panders to anyone with a checkbook.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: loki8481
I can forgive a blatant pander easier than a 20-year bff relationship.

but I'm a cynic and willing to accept political realities. ;)
So, that's how you're going to try to split a hair to explain the blatant hypocrisy where Obama has to renounce Wright's views, but McCain gets a pass on Hagee's?

Sorry, but I don't care whether it's 20 years or 20 minutes, the candidate allying with someone who espouses bigotry - and Hagee's is far worse, IMO - is the issue regardless.

In fact McCain's is the worse of the two as well because it shows his very current position to get close to Hagee, instead of something from a long time ago.
Yea, there is no difference between 20 years and 20 minutes....:roll:
So, on the one hand, you have John McCain call these people "agents of intolerance" and then he lies in bed with them. On the other hand, you have Obama criticize some of his pastor's remarks but refuses to tear up his relationship with him. Tell me, who has more principals?
 

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