Mazda RX-8
- Thread starter FrustratedUser
- Start date
RedRooster
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2000
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Is it true the car is 30hp down on what Mazda says it should be?
It's a cool looking car, but if it's that underpowered, it's going to get a whooping from Nissan(even though they're not really the same class, but people will compare).
It's a cool looking car, but if it's that underpowered, it's going to get a whooping from Nissan(even though they're not really the same class, but people will compare).
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
here is a n00b question:
how can a rotary engine with such a small displacement (1.3L) create that much power? if it's such a superior design over a conventional 4 stroke engine, why don't all automakers use rotary engines? manufacturing costs?
how can a rotary engine with such a small displacement (1.3L) create that much power? if it's such a superior design over a conventional 4 stroke engine, why don't all automakers use rotary engines? manufacturing costs?
- Nov 27, 1999
- 65,409
- 407
- 126
I saw a couple this past week and I think it looks pretty ugly. Too busy with too many lines.
As for alphatarget1's question, I know the last one is because it is difficult for rotaries to pass emissions. I think the RX-8 barely passes.
As for alphatarget1's question, I know the last one is because it is difficult for rotaries to pass emissions. I think the RX-8 barely passes.
this is because people are very hesitant to jump on and try different things... one of the other reasons is that rotary engines generate a lot of heat, and require surroundings that can absorb the heat without getting all fubar'd up. another reason is that in the past, emissions has been a problem, something that has somewhat been solved with the rx8. lastly, there's the people who think "rotary? oh, that means it needs a new engine every 50k miles" which is total bs, don't get me started.
yes and no.
yes it is 30 hp down b/c the motors are "broken in" but they're not "BROKEN IN". Rotary engines build compression for the first 10-20 thousand miles. The ones that have been dyno'd 30 hp below mazda's ratings are still breaking in their motors. I have seen people dyno rx8's and their 2nd run is approx. 2 hp higher than their first run. Have heard stories about it too.
oh brother............ how much space is there in a rotary engine for displacement? 1.3 liters... if you want to start saying "it actually works like a 2 stroke engine, b/c power is made on every yahda yahda yahda yahda yahda bla bla bla bla bla i've heard this argument a zillion times bla bla bla bla bla" whatever, but the amount of space in a rotary engine available for making power is 1.3 liters. count it how you want it, but unless you count it twice, it's 1.3 liters...
I don't think displacement is calculated the same on a rotary engine. (could be wrong here)....but I'm basing this on the fact that in all the listings of naturally asp. hp/L comparisons the mazda engines never come up. Its always the s2ks, ferraris, m3s, etc. exceeding 100hp/L. Are they just forgetting about it?
??
Why would you count it twice?
Well, the main points have been brought up, I think. Emissions are a big thing, but it's also reliability. While it's true that you don't need an overhaul every 50k miles anymore, they're still much more unreliable than a piston engine. It is in their design; inherited from the 2-cycle-like stroke. Poor lubrication. It's not necessarily a bad thing, as their power to weight ratio is tremendous, it's just the way it is.
I dunno about that. Break-in shouldn't increase numbers that much. 2HP is within the margin of error of the dyno, so that doesen't mean anything. Sure, the apex seals need to fully set and seal, but I would be shocked at a 30HP gain after breakin. There should be little difference when comparing the leakdown test of a fresh engine to that of one that is broken in. And it doesen't take 10 - 20k miles to break-in, I don't care what engine you're talking about. The peaks wear down very fast.. Most wear is going to occour in the first hours of use... probably half of which happens before the car is in your hands(assuming a brand new buy).
You know that the people driving them around after they're first built are having fun with them.
I don't see how it could be calculated any different. Displacement is just that, displacement. How much air does the engine displace?
It's kinda hard to fudge with the numbers.
A wankel has a power stroke 3 times per revolution. Compare that to 1 power stroke/rev with a 2-cycle, and 0.5 power strokes/rev with a 4-cycle. Just think about that for a second.
To throw some more fuel into the fire.....mazda rotary engines seemed to be classified differently in racing applications. (including "assumed" displacements) Maybe its to make sure they don't have an unfair advantage over piston engines of similar actual displacements?
That's too bad. I wish they'd bring back the 2 door convertible. Guess I'll have to stick with my '91 RX7 a while longer.
RX-8 Forum
My friends been going there for quite some time now. Boy is his decked out Blue RX-8 Manual beautiful....
www.rx7club.com/forum
www.rx8club.com/forum
as for the displacement issue, it's been argued waaay too many times that because a rotary works like a two stroke engine and creates power for every compression part of the cycle whereas a piston engine does that for every two compression cycles that a 1.3L rotary should be considered a 2.6 liter engine when doing direct comparisons. To me, it's just the rotor displaces 1.3 liters. simple as that. the engine is called a 13b, 13bt, or 13b-rew depending on which engine you get, but it's all 1.3 except for the 1st gen engines...
as for the power, yes, it sounds crazy that the engine does that, but it's the truth, that the engine builds compression for quite a while after the "break in period" and if it builds compression, it increases in power... + compression = + power
www.rx8club.com/forum
as for the displacement issue, it's been argued waaay too many times that because a rotary works like a two stroke engine and creates power for every compression part of the cycle whereas a piston engine does that for every two compression cycles that a 1.3L rotary should be considered a 2.6 liter engine when doing direct comparisons. To me, it's just the rotor displaces 1.3 liters. simple as that. the engine is called a 13b, 13bt, or 13b-rew depending on which engine you get, but it's all 1.3 except for the 1st gen engines...
as for the power, yes, it sounds crazy that the engine does that, but it's the truth, that the engine builds compression for quite a while after the "break in period" and if it builds compression, it increases in power... + compression = + power
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