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Discussion Maybe we should ban religion all together

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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
15,150
5,266
136
I've had wonderful experiences with Christians worthy of the name and I don't think you are correct. Some people teach hate with religion but that is not universally true and you might consider that you are displaying bigotry here about something you don't understand, but judge yourself to have authority to condemn. It's not a good look.
I figure I might be... still that is my honest opinion... would I enforce it via law? No.
Would I put into law some paragraphs and requirements of those who take leadership over other people? I might.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
17,212
7,306
136
Re: religion of the masses...

No kidding, given the new phenomenon of a high percentage of people in public looking at their cell phones. It gives rise to the question... what exactly are they doing? Chatting, responding to instant messaging? Tweets? Instagram messages? Checking their email? I've seen people on public transportation playing games with them. I never ask.
Too right. The acquiescing of critical thinking to a device is no better than doing the same with a work of fiction IMO. Time and place for everything is also an opinion of mine however.

For the record, not on FB, twitter or Instagram, and carry my phone as little as possible and especially so on weekends. Making my boys wait until they are teenagers before they join the smart phone crowd too. There's bales of hay that need arrows in them, and if it's raining we have these things called books. I do allow game time on the PCs I built them, but they don't know the login passwords, so...
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
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I don't often agree with things you post. I agree with this thing you posted.
I'd have to go along with that as well. The solution to problems is often to get rid of things one can't comprehend. To say that religious wars and killings weren't a reality would be nonsense. So if we "got rid of religion" which isn't likely we'll likely just continue as we are with a far deadlier thing, politics. The majority of people who died in war was for that. WW2, WW1, Vietnam, even Iraq and Afghanistan. Politics, power and wealth still exist. Machete killings in Africa are tribal, on and on.

The bottom line is that humans are consummate executioners and we evolved to be just that. We aren't smarter because it's better, we're better thinkers to be better killers. We are the planetary hyper predator even on ourselves because we were born that way. As social creatures, humans will follow politicians as much as any god and because the former is seen doesn't make them good. We're the walking nightmare of any intelligent creature who finds self-extinction anathema. The old Roman Catholic church, with their use of God for power and wealth while not being Christ-like isn't different from the pogroms of Mao or Stalin or persecution of anyone. It's who we are as a species, murderous cavemen who survived a mass extinction 70k years which knocked us back to perhaps 30K individuals who came out "better" with increased social skills and intelligence. Now Slow and his politicians want to finish what the Toba supervolcano failed to do tens of thousands of years ago.

We will always find a reason to hate, to follow, and kill as a species. It takes effort to resist that which we tend to embrace.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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I figure I might be... still that is my honest opinion... would I enforce it via law? No.
Would I put into law some paragraphs and requirements of those who take leadership over other people? I might.
We have something in the US we need to follow and that is keeping the State our of the Church and the Church out of the state unless there are extraordinary situations. That means anyone who takes office must be able to compartmentalize and comprehend how this nation was designed. Personal opinions are fine but when governing the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,124
3,100
126
Officer, I drove into them as they were too short.

Man, I hate Blondes, vroom, vroom.
Actually they're saying he thought them Muslims, not blondies.

This revenge thing, it has me puzzled. I have to think it's an excuse to act out their murderous impulses. People, many people, if they feel obligated to do so, justify their actions as it were after the fact.

An Australian physical trainer takes a notion to take revenge against Islamic terrorists who have been perpetrating deadly attacks in Europe by finding a soft target nearby, i.e. New Zealand, where the strict anti-gun laws of his native Australia didn't (at the time) exist. He conjures a plan, executes it, killing dozens.

Then Islamic fundamentalists of some flavor in Sri Lanka decide (presumably) to retaliate for this one guy's murderous wet dream by killing 350+ in Christian churches on Easter. Revenge. Seems the Islamic fundamentalist murders have an m.o. they favor, being simultaneous coordinated attacks using suicide bombers. It's their finger print. Why is it that Islamic fundamentalists are so enamored of revenge? They're not alone in this, but they seem to be much more prone to it. I heard that some of the suicide bombers in Sri Lanka were well educated children of upper class people in the country. That has me seriously baffled... and curious. What did happen there?
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,630
2,800
136
I heard that some of the suicide bombers in Sri Lanka were well educated children of upper class people in the country. That has me seriously baffled... and curious. What did happen there?
I don't think that's particularly surprising. That's been obvious since 911 at least. There are obviously several different groups who turn to Islamist fundamentalism, and the educated-and-affluent are one of them (idiot converts are another, the formerly-out-of-control criminal thug a third, and the out-and-out mentally-deficient yet another).

The Glasgow airport attackers were doctors, after all, as have been a number of such would-be-killers and fundie Islamist international recruits. I suspect with the 'rich kid' attackers there's an element of guilt involved - they want to escape the discomfort of feeling like comfortable elites watching their co-believers 'suffer'.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,124
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I'd have to go along with that as well. The solution to problems is often to get rid of things one can't comprehend. To say that religious wars and killings weren't a reality would be nonsense. So if we "got rid of religion" which isn't likely we'll likely just continue as we are with a far deadlier thing, politics. The majority of people who died in war was for that. WW2, WW1, Vietnam, even Iraq and Afghanistan. Politics, power and wealth still exist. Machete killings in Africa are tribal, on and on.

The bottom line is that humans are consummate executioners and we evolved to be just that. We aren't smarter because it's better, we're better thinkers to be better killers. We are the planetary hyper predator even on ourselves because we were born that way. As social creatures, humans will follow politicians as much as any god and because the former is seen doesn't make them good. We're the walking nightmare of any intelligent creature who finds self-extinction anathema. The old Roman Catholic church, with their use of God for power and wealth while not being Christ-like isn't different from the pogroms of Mao or Stalin or persecution of anyone. It's who we are as a species, murderous cavemen who survived a mass extinction 70k years which knocked us back to perhaps 30K individuals who came out "better" with increased social skills and intelligence. Now Slow and his politicians want to finish what the Toba supervolcano failed to do tens of thousands of years ago.

We will always find a reason to hate, to follow, and kill as a species. It takes effort to resist that which we tend to embrace.
I do respect you, have a high regard for you but must say I don't share your level of pessimism regarding human nature. I'm not saying you're wrong. You come across as rather convinced.

Where I live, the diversity of the populace is simply staggering. All races and ethnicities is what you encounter on a continual basis. I don't sense seething intolerance from the people I encounter. So, yes, I live in a bubble here. But I do try to pay attention to what's outside the bubble. Yes, I'm appalled at a lot of what I see going on in the world... again and again. I do figure, however, that potentially, the human race can transcend all that negative shit you speak of. That doesn't mean they will or that I expect they will, I just believe it potentially could happen. Now, the environmental challenges we face may mean we haven't the ghost of a chance. That's what I'm hearing.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,124
3,100
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I don't think that's particularly surprising. -snip-

The Glasgow airport attackers were doctors, after all, as have been a number of such would-be-killers and fundie Islamist international recruits. I suspect with the 'rich kid' attackers there's an element of guilt involved - they want to escape the discomfort of feeling like comfortable elites watching their co-believers 'suffer'.
Yeah, doctors are well educated, but I think they are often 1/2 way off their rocker. Med school is enough to do that to you sometimes, it's a grind, and then they make you do an internship, then a residency. By the time you hang your shingle you've spent your entire youth being "educated." Who you are as a person may have been seriously sacrificed.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
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I do respect you, have a high regard for you but must say I don't share your level of pessimism regarding human nature. I'm not saying you're wrong. You come across as rather convinced.

Where I live, the diversity of the populace is simply staggering. All races and ethnicities is what you encounter on a continual basis. I don't sense seething intolerance from the people I encounter. So, yes, I live in a bubble here. But I do try to pay attention to what's outside the bubble. Yes, I'm appalled at a lot of what I see going on in the world... again and again. I do figure, however, that potentially, the human race can transcend all that negative shit you speak of. That doesn't mean they will or that I expect they will, I just believe it potentially could happen. Now, the environmental challenges we face may mean with haven't the ghost of a chance. That's what I'm hearing.
I'm convinced by history our social nature and how that has manifested itself through the ages. Our evolution dictates who we are, as a species, but I didn't say we cannot oppose ourselves. There is a struggle within and without which some try to understand and control but how many days has the world seen without an organized and deadly conflict? I'd wager none although that's impossible to prove.

I think that you could rightly say I am convinced that our collective nature is brutish and finds excuses for that. Consider "patriots", those people who listen to someone like GWB and go to war overseas to kill those who haven't done us harm. War is a game played by the youth of society and manipulated for the benefit of a few. Dress it in a flag and you can have another Hitler, another jihad or crusade in some guise or a Stalinist purge. All that is needed is fear and an enemy to reduce otherwise reasoning individuals to mush. That is who we are.

I am absolutely convinced of that BUT I am also convinced we can wake up every day and decide to the greatest good in a thoughtful way that takes into account the vast majority. We have reason and the ability to use our emotions so that as a whole human worthing of the name both the intellectual and the feelings we have inform each other.

We're conflicted beasts, but failure is our option to choose and not a fated destiny.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,124
3,100
126
Even in the most "free" societies, we a still harming young souls like @7yo, listen up little Lisa, about that magic man in the sky, that is something you have to figure out for yourself if its something you believe in.
I mean. What. A. Mind. Job..... And this is coming from the adults that is supposed to be protecting Lisa.
I dont get it.
I'm not a parent. Have never sworn it off, either. But I've always felt that being a parent isn't easy. I'm sure you have to do it to appreciate how tough it can be. I figure if I had young children I wouldn't try to indoctrinate them, wouldn't try to tell them what to believe, I'd just try to help them cope with the world, hopefully be able to introduce them to what makes life worth living when the opportunities arise. Kids famously ask questions. That can put you on the spot. It would be one of the more interesting aspects of being a parent. I think your kids would make you think! And quickly, and make you light on your feet as it were. I figure many of not the great majority of parents don't cut it in that regard!
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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War isn't a game played by youth, it's a game forced on them by politicians and corporations.
Who are the pawns on the board? It's not the politicians and corporations. I'd agree except that there is no draft. Why people sign up cover comes down to the individual, their circumstances and reasons, but they do sign, and it's the youngest of all who participate in war who are harmed.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,124
3,100
126
War isn't a game played by youth, it's a game forced on them by politicians and corporations.
The world belongs to the old. The young commonly find themselves in a world owned and controlled by older people. Often they find themselves rootless and with no prospects and IMO, at least in America, I think it is very often those that enlist. They are quite often not ready for the experience. I think that's what happened with this guy. It caused his PTSD and ultimately led to this tragedy.
 
Jun 19, 2004
24,142
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Who are the pawns on the board? It's not the politicians and corporations. I'd agree except that there is no draft. Why people sign up cover comes down to the individual, their circumstances and reasons, but they do sign, and it's the youngest of all who participate in war who are harmed.
There is no question that our youth are the ones to pay the price for war but, they are not the ones who start wars. As for why they sign up, there are many reasons. I would argue the greatest reason is economic. If we had decent healthcare, low cost training/education and, opportunity, there would be no choice but for the government to draft citizens.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,794
825
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War isn't a game played by youth, it's a game forced on them by politicians and corporations.
Yes and no. It certainly is abused at times, but it is also necessary in the worst of times. I think where people start to get concerned is when they are used to further agendas or flat out lied to the public as to what is going on. As a former vet I see both sides of this. For instance if Trump said 'we are going to war with X' I would have a very tough moral dilemma on my hands because I don't believe we can trust him or his agenda. However, there are circumstances where even Trump doesn't come into play on the world front or if the nation was attacked.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
3,387
2,332
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Actually they're saying he thought them Muslims, not blondies.

This revenge thing, it has me puzzled. I have to think it's an excuse to act out their murderous impulses. People, many people, if they feel obligated to do so, justify their actions as it were after the fact.

An Australian physical trainer takes a notion to take revenge against Islamic terrorists who have been perpetrating deadly attacks in Europe by finding a soft target nearby, i.e. New Zealand, where the strict anti-gun laws of his native Australia didn't (at the time) exist. He conjures a plan, executes it, killing dozens.

Then Islamic fundamentalists of some flavor in Sri Lanka decide (presumably) to retaliate for this one guy's murderous wet dream by killing 350+ in Christian churches on Easter. Revenge. Seems the Islamic fundamentalist murders have an m.o. they favor, being simultaneous coordinated attacks using suicide bombers. It's their finger print. Why is it that Islamic fundamentalists are so enamored of revenge? They're not alone in this, but they seem to be much more prone to it. I heard that some of the suicide bombers in Sri Lanka were well educated children of upper class people in the country. That has me seriously baffled... and curious. What did happen there?
I live in Trinidad & Tobago (google it) which is extremely diverse. We had an attempted Islamic coup in 1990, just before Sadam's invasion of Kuwait. Naturally all international the press that were present fled to bigger stories. Police executed, minister killed plus others, prime minister and others held hostage, police headquarters gutted by fire. Curfew for months. Smelt the tear gas and heard the semi-automatic fire.

I laugh at some fools here who make these juvenile blanket statements on topics they're unknowingly ignorant about and just repeat sources. I have had close relations to the extent of dating with Muslim, Hindu, all types of Christian, Chinese, Indian, African, European and combinations of these. This is my culture and we celebrate each other's religious holidays, Eid, Divali, Christmas, Easter.

It came as a complete surprise to most citizens as we were so tolerant and diverse. How could this happen here. I remember being at work when we saw the takeover of the TV station being broadcast and my fellow workers wondering what to do. Seriously, my advice and action was to sign out work, head to the grocery, gas station and stock-up. Came in useful during the curfew. People were actually going to remain at work.

I said all of that to emphasize that the Muslim terrorists that attempted a coup were overwhelmingly converts. A fair percentage came from the school I attended as a teen. It was the most prestigious school in the country at the time and was Catholic.

So a prestige Catholic school ends up producing the plotters and operators of an Islamic national coup. In fact the 2nd in command of the coup was one of the top 10 students in the entire country for his age group.

Go figure.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,393
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Jun 19, 2004
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See what you are doing? like Trump when you don`t like somebody you make things up! The sad part is I see no posts by Felix in this thread! What exactly do you have against Felix?
As Magnus said -- "You know there's enough real things he's said to lambaste him for without making things up."
Felix put a thumbs down emote on the Op's post. You have to be pretty intolerant to interpret it to mean what indus said though.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
6,727
2,240
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Felix put a thumbs down emote on the Op's post. You have to be pretty intolerant to interpret it to mean what indus said though.
It was post #12 where I sarcastically said something about abusive priests.

This to be exact:

So whats the proposition here? Ban religion altogether?
Other than priests missing the kids they would molest, who would really miss it?
And he disliked it. I am truly baffled like like who would stand up for abusive priests?

Unless I'm missing something.. so please enlighten me
 
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Jun 19, 2004
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It was post #12 where I sarcastically said something about abusive priests.

This to be exact:



And he disliked it. I am truly baffled like like who would stand up for abusive priests?

Unless I'm missing something.. so please enlighten me
I see. That isn't what you linked to. Maybe he just dislikes you.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
4,572
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I want freedom from religion. You can have your religion and beliefs just don't get any on me.

I also think their should be a strict enforcement of the separation of church and state. The moment an elected representive mentions religion they no longer represent ALL of their constituents which is wrong. How is catering to one party and/or religion not identity politics?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
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I want freedom from religion. You can have your religion and beliefs just don't get any on me.

I also think their should be a strict enforcement of the separation of church and state. The moment an elected representive mentions religion they no longer represent ALL of their constituents which is wrong. How is catering to one party and/or religion not identity politics?
I would be fine if nothing about religion were mentioned by religious or the extreme opposite.
 
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