Maybe there is a use for "tin foil hats" after all?

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,689
5,412
136
Apparently these high-tech car key systems are very easily hackable. Been a spate of cases of thieves reading the signal from them, even from keys kept inside the house, and then copying it to steal high-end cars.

Seems like a massive 'fail' on the part of car manufacturers. Surely they could have designed a system with some sort of 'one time password' setup, that would mean the key never using the same unlocking code twice? Couldn't the car itself provide some sort of seed code that the key then has to respond to?


A metal box inside a microwave is not most people’s idea of a sensible key cupboard, but the AA’s president has revealed it is where he stores his car fob.
Edmund King already used a Faraday pouch – a bag with a metal lining to block signals – to hold his keyless fob but has gone to extra lengths since his wife’s £50,000 Lexus was stolen by hackers.
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
6,414
1,976
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If you ever lock your keys the car, you can just call a family member from your cell phone. Put your phone on speaker and hold it up next to your car door. Have your family member retrieve the spare key fob and hold it up to their phone and push the unlock button. Your door will unlock and you can retrieve your keys.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
19,531
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If you ever lock your keys the car, you can just call a family member from your cell phone. Put your phone on speaker and hold it up next to your car door. Have your family member retrieve the spare key fob and hold it up to their phone and push the unlock button. Your door will unlock and you can retrieve your keys.

I hope you forgot the sarcasm tag...
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
25,037
6,643
136
Honda has the same kind of problem with key-FOB's for nearly every car they've made since 2012, but unless your car has keyless ignition and/or remote-start all they can do is unlock it. (which still sucks!)

Remote-starters and "keyless" ignition are nice to have in some ways but given a choice I'll take a physical key (and/or a simple remote that ONLY unlocks doors) being required to unlock or start the car EVERY time thanks.

And you can KEEP your "connected-car" B$ too! The ONLY person who should be able to access/update your cars software is you the owner NOT the people who sold it to you!
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
54,596
7,257
126
Yeah, I've had very low confidence in the digital security they use for... well, basically anything car-related. Yes, they could develop something more secure, but that would cost more.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
19,531
2,890
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The only answer for car theft is to get good insurance and not worry about it. If they want it they will get it.

Tow or flatbed....
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
7,554
5,871
136
If you ever lock your keys the car, you can just call a family member from your cell phone. Put your phone on speaker and hold it up next to your car door. Have your family member retrieve the spare key fob and hold it up to their phone and push the unlock button. Your door will unlock and you can retrieve your keys.
And there is some prime ocean front property for sale in Kansas...

 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,088
1,793
136
At the end of the day, it's just a car. Have good insurance, try not to leave valuables inside, and get on with life.

That said, this is the kind of thing that insurance companies are really good at sorting out with manufacturers. If they see that significant losses are occurring due to keyless attack vectors, they will pressure OEs to make their vehicles more secure. This is one of those instances where the market works.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
25,037
6,643
136
Wait until they convert your electric heated leather seats to "subscription model" via OTA update and send you a bill!

;)

Many of the issues with "always on" connected cars have nothing to do with "hackers" breaking in.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
63,258
10,023
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twitter.com
You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy.

Not a fan of the trend at all. This is why I do want to eventually get setup to work on cars. If it comes a time where this connected BS is the norm I want to just strip all that stuff out completely.
 

Tsinni Dave

Member
Mar 1, 2022
190
356
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Here's a truly frightening bit of related news from a few years ago. Darpa research on car hacking as an assassination tool.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
25,037
6,643
136
Here's a truly frightening bit of related news from a few years ago. Darpa research on car hacking as an assassination tool.

And killing the people in the car that's actually compromised by driving off a cliff or something is only half of the issue.

Taking control of a self-driving & super-fast EV for a sub 4-second 0-60 into a big crowd or 120+ mph into the back of a school-bus or gasoline tanker are just a few "neat" ideas that occurred to me.
 

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
7,088
4,002
106
"Surely they could have designed a system with some sort of 'one time password' setup, that would mean the key never using the same unlocking code twice? Couldn't the car itself provide some sort of seed code that the key then has to respond to?"


So, you're saying that $250 garage door openers that have had rolling code systems for a couple of decades have better security than 'smart' cars?
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
25,037
6,643
136
So, you're saying that $250 garage door openers that have had rolling code systems for a couple of decades have better security than 'smart' cars?
The compromised Honda key-FOB's (9.5 years worth!) ALL use a "rolling" combination code.

That kind of garage-door opener "security" was cracked many years ago and is about as effective as securing your home-network with 128-bit WEP.

:(
 

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