Maybe it's time for universal coverage, but not medical

[Hayabusa Rider]

This isn't a UHC thread. The government has a poor understanding at best and there are many already made.

I'm thinking there is something they should know and that's law. Few have the resources to participate in the legal system without severe hardship. If you are rich you do and if you are poor you have some but not a lot. The cost of defense is such that merely being charged is ruination for some. The government and private entities can coerce and attack knowing that.

If you are seriously wronged you might find someone to take a case for a huge cut. Let's have ordinary citizens have a chance and not just the rich and powerful.

 

[justoh]

say what?

 

[glenn1]

So you're proposing free lawyers for everyone? Don't we already have enough without Uncle Sam creating a fresh income stream for the profession?

How to rein in the civil legal system is already fairly clear:

1. Establish "loser pays" rules
2. Cap punitive damages awards to reasonable levels
3. Disallow corporations to write off attorney's fees when they lose the case, reducing the financial advantage of big companies vs average citizens
4. Allow judges and juries more leeway to declare lawsuits frivolous, with deterrent-level punishments for those who file them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So you're proposing free lawyers for everyone? Don't we already have enough without Uncle Sam creating a fresh income stream for the profession?

How to rein in the civil legal system is already fairly clear:

1. Establish "loser pays" rules
2. Cap punitive damages awards to reasonable levels
3. Disallow corporations to write off attorney's fees when they lose the case, reducing the financial advantage of big companies vs average citizens
4. Allow judges and juries more leeway to declare lawsuits frivolous, with deterrent-level punishments for those who file them.

Suppose you are charged with a crime?

 

[justoh]

public defenders?

 

[Spungo]

public defenders?

It's probably a good thing these exist, but they tend to suck due to limited pay. The really good lawyers go private and charge a fortune for their skills. Maybe hire more of them so they're not trying to balance 10 cases at a time?

 

[diesbudt]

Universal Coverage? Screw that. I am not paying my taxes to cover the costs of aliens from other planets let alone galaxies.

 

[zsdersw]

Universal Coverage? Screw that. I am not paying my taxes to cover the costs of aliens from other planets let alone galaxies.

Not to mention paying for dark matter and dark energy. We can't even see it but we gotta pay for it? Screw that.

 

[justoh]

Universal Coverage? Screw that. I am not paying my taxes to cover the costs of aliens from other planets let alone galaxies.

Good point. The audacity of the op....

 

[Brigandier]

Every criminal trial gets public defenders, all civil suits are decided by Judge Judy.

 

[brycejones]

Maybe hire more of them so they're not trying to balance 10 cases at a time?

I bet most public defenders would be happy to only have 10 cases at a time....

 

[BoberFett]

It's probably a good thing these exist, but they tend to suck due to limited pay. The really good lawyers go private and charge a fortune for their skills. Maybe hire more of them so they're not trying to balance 10 cases at a time?

Not only that, but if you're middle class you will likely be denied a public defender. If you have any assets and reasonable income, the court will commonly deny requests for a public defender, so if you weren't broke before you will be after the SWAT team breaks down your doors, shoots your pets, plants drugs in your house, then keeps up the lie to avoid embarrassment.

 

[justoh]

I heard if you're middle class you also don't qualify for food stamps.

 

[justoh]

Every criminal trial gets public defenders, all civil suits are decided by Judge Judy.

World of what?

 

[BoberFett]

I heard if you're middle class you also don't qualify for food stamps.

What you're point, jackass?

 

[yllus]

I think it's an interesting idea - a combination of universal coverage and more decriminalization would really boost the ability of the common man to receive a fair hearing. In fact, universal coverage would probably demand decriminalization to keep down costs.

 

[justoh]

What you're point, jackass?

Sorry. I think a lot of us were confused as to what he could have meant, since we have PDs already, but apparently you guys are arguing that everyone should be entitled to a PD. LOL. Fair enough. Sorry again.

 

[IronWing]

1. Establish "loser pays" rules
2. Cap punitive damages awards to reasonable levels
3. Disallow corporations to write off attorney's fees when they lose the case, reducing the financial advantage of big companies vs average citizens
4. Allow judges and juries more leeway to declare lawsuits frivolous, with deterrent-level punishments for those who file them.

What is reasonable? Caps on punative damages allow folks to turn moral decisions into calculated business decisions. "If I screw those folks over there I know my maximum possible downside is X with a Y chance of paying nothing while my upside is Z. The numbers work so screw them we shall". Leaving punative damages up to a jury serves as a deterent to calculated bad behavior.

The rest looks good. Finding a cure for frivolous lawsuits is difficult. The vast majority of civil cases (other than divorce) are company vs company contract disputes. It may take quite a bit of court time to sift through the mumbo-jumbo to figure out that a lawsuit is bogus.

 

[TheSiege]

It just cost 4k to prove I didn't commit assault, and this was after being arrested illegally.

 

[justoh]

It just cost 4k to prove I didn't commit assault, and this was after being arrested illegally.

So you got off on a technicality? You sly dog. High five.

 

[Anarchist420]

I kind of see the OP's point because there is a universal right to accuse as well as the fact that the govt has the nearly unlimited power of "pursuing justice". Examples include, but are not limited to, George Zimmerman and the former Duke Lacrosse players.

If we go to an inquisitorial system, then rights that adverserial systems allow are taken away. However, we have an adversarial system which means that we have more rights, but then the rich may receive better outcomes than the poor.

 

[Patranus]

----

 

[hal2kilo]

I had Universal coverage at one point but dropped it cause Met Life was ripping me off. Actualy, got one of those $1.98 checks awarded to me.

Ohhh! that was Universal Life. Never mind.

 

[glenn1]

What is reasonable? Caps on punative damages allow folks to turn moral decisions into calculated business decisions. "If I screw those folks over there I know my maximum possible downside is X with a Y chance of paying nothing while my upside is Z. The numbers work so screw them we shall". Leaving punative damages up to a jury serves as a deterent to calculated bad behavior.

The rest looks good. Finding a cure for frivolous lawsuits is difficult. The vast majority of civil cases (other than divorce) are company vs company contract disputes. It may take quite a bit of court time to sift through the mumbo-jumbo to figure out that a lawsuit is bogus.

I'm open on what the punative damage cap should be, I'm not going to argue about 3x actual damages, 10x, or another realistic number. If you want to punish companies for wrongdoing, do it via civil fines instead of jackpot payouts to plaintiffs. No more lawsuits where defendant negligence caused $10 in damages but the defendant is suing for $100 million in pain and suffering.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm open on what the punative damage cap should be, I'm not going to argue about 3x actual damages, 10x, or another realistic number. If you want to punish companies for wrongdoing, do it via civil fines instead of jackpot payouts to plaintiffs. No more lawsuits where defendant negligence caused $10 in damages but the defendant is suing for $100 million in pain and suffering.

Limitations are worth discussing. Also I'm not suggesting attorneys be paid what they bill. Have them reimbursed like pharmacies at a level others determine.