Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
Funny, I managed to know that my parents were involved in my life without them pulling me out of lunch ever.
ZV
And I'm sick of people trying to destroy the discussion. What's wrong? We can all learn something here.
First of all--
It's a better idea with girls than it is for boys since girls are naturally a lot more dependent.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous that parents feel their kids won't love them unless they give them attention every second. Trust me, we realize what a parent/guardian is. It's rather insulting that they think there's a time bomb on "love". Maybe it's just a "generation gap". You'd have to do something pretty bad to your child to break the relationship between kid and parent. The love between the two is inherited and unalienable. No matter how many fights you get in, chances are you will come running back later.
I would love my parents just as I do now (and probably more so) if they hadn't have been "friends" with me. Parents should have their own lives and be role models for the kid. Acting like the kid and trying to close a generation gap that is unclosable just doesn't work. It acts as a detriment to them. If they're visiting their child at school like this, chances are they are the "friend" type of parent, and that's the main thing I'm questioning/targeting here.
Bringing in pizza for the kid and his friends is pretty awesome. But that's a different thing altogether than visiting your child on a weekly basis and isolating him from the social world. School is not just about education, it's about learning to interact and deal with people and groups. Even if you just visit him three times a month, that's valuable time you're taking away, and it adds up.
I'm curious what really drives parents to do this (I'd like the parents who voted in favor to respond). Is it:
a) They feel that they don't give their kids enough attention or aren't close enough to their kids (why not?)
b) They feel their kids haven't developed socially
c) They feel that their kids hang out with bad cliques
d) They work at night and have very little time with their kids at home (and this is one I can understand)
e) They just like eating lunch with their kids (but this is what weekends are for)
f) They can't stand not being with their kids every second
g) :| DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PARENT MY KIDS!!!! (how am I doing that? I am just asking for ideas and beliefs)
h) Other?
Now after all this you must think I'd hate to have kids or I wouldn't love them. You probably think I'm an asshole too. Honestly I don't know why. That's not true at all. If you can't take the constructive criticism non-offensively that's pretty sad in itself. I feel that by not doing this it is doing them a great favor in life and it will help them live an exciting, independent life of their own. What's the problem with doing it just "once a month or so"? I guess there isn't any problem. But it's the idea of it (even doing it once a month), not necessarily the frequency. More than likely they are the "friend" type of parent like I describe above. My theory is that sooner or later you'll become such good friends he'll be shocked if you scream at him to clean his room, etc, when he really shouldn't be that surprised. You need to get used to not being around him all the time (just letting him have his time alone at school is hardly robbing him of anything anyway). He will be going to college, he will have his own life soon, just like you. And no time is too early to prepare him for that.
It's a better idea with girls than it is for boys since girls are naturally a lot more dependent.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous that parents feel their kids won't love them unless they give them attention every second. Trust me, we realize what a parent/guardian is. It's rather insulting that they think there's a time bomb on "love". Maybe it's just a "generation gap". You'd have to do something pretty bad to your child to break the relationship between kid and parent. The love between the two is inherited and unalienable. No matter how many fights you get in, chances are you will come running back later.
I would love my parents just as I do now (and probably more so) if they hadn't have been "friends" with me. Parents should have their own lives and be role models for the kid. Acting like the kid and trying to close a generation gap that is unclosable just doesn't work. It acts as a detriment to them. If they're visiting their child at school like this, chances are they are the "friend" type of parent, and that's the main thing I'm questioning/targeting here.
Bringing in pizza for the kid and his friends is pretty awesome. But that's a different thing altogether than visiting your child on a weekly basis and isolating him from the social world. School is not just about education, it's about learning to interact and deal with people and groups. Even if you just visit him three times a month, that's valuable time you're taking away, and it adds up.
I'm curious what really drives parents to do this (I'd like the parents who voted in favor to respond). Is it:
a) They feel that they don't give their kids enough attention or aren't close enough to their kids (why not?)
b) They feel their kids haven't developed socially
c) They feel that their kids hang out with bad cliques
d) They work at night and have very little time with their kids at home (and this is one I can understand)
e) They just like eating lunch with their kids (but this is what weekends are for)
f) They can't stand not being with their kids every second
g) :| DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PARENT MY KIDS!!!! (how am I doing that? I am just asking for ideas and beliefs)
h) Other?
Now after all this you must think I'd hate to have kids or I wouldn't love them. You probably think I'm an asshole too. Honestly I don't know why. That's not true at all. If you can't take the constructive criticism non-offensively that's pretty sad in itself. I feel that by not doing this it is doing them a great favor in life and it will help them live an exciting, independent life of their own. What's the problem with doing it just "once a month or so"? I guess there isn't any problem. But it's the idea of it (even doing it once a month), not necessarily the frequency. More than likely they are the "friend" type of parent like I describe above. My theory is that sooner or later you'll become such good friends he'll be shocked if you scream at him to clean his room, etc, when he really shouldn't be that surprised. You need to get used to not being around him all the time (just letting him have his time alone at school is hardly robbing him of anything anyway). He will be going to college, he will have his own life soon, just like you. And no time is too early to prepare him for that.
- Oct 9, 1999
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You can't spend time alone with your kids at home? Why must you go TO SCHOOL to have alone time with your kids? Are you that starved for attention? I'm arguing this ONE point. GOING TO YOUR KID'S SCHOOL TO BE ALONE WITH THEM. The school time is not your personal family alone time. Spending time at home with your kids is personal alone time.
Would you like it if your wife/friends/mom/mother in law came to your place of business and pulled you aside and starting shootin' the sh!t with you on company time? Hey, they just want to be with you. They love you. What's the harm? Right?
There's a time and a place for everything, but to go to your child's school to have alone time with them sounds pretty "needy."
Let the teachers do their job. That's what they're there for. That's what they get paid to do. If they need your help, they'll ask.
Well you may respond with, "Well, it's my kid. I'll do whatever I want." I think it underminds the whole principle of socialization in school. How is a kid supposed to learn socialization skills at an early age (these are 1st graders) if you're taking him/her aside to be alone during one of the only times during the day when they can actually talk with their classmates without interfering with classwork?
You start doing this stuff at an early age and at such frequent intervals that they are going to think that it is the norm and expect it here on out. And they wonder why kids these days are such spoiled little brats. It's because their parents spoon feed them anything they want, do anything they want and give into their every demand.
My GF tells me today that one of the teachers at the school got two mean-spirted letters from parents:
1) One telling her that she isn't doing her job because her son isn't doing well in class (well, maybe if the little brat wasn't constantly acting up and talking during class, he wouldn't have issues)
2) The other telling the teacher that if she was such a great teacher, why did her son get a C on his homework.
It's one thing to be involved in your children's life and school work, but it seems that parents today think that they must control/be involved in EVERY aspect of their child's life instead of letting them find things out and do things on their own.
When I was in elementary school, my dad was a part of the PTA. He helped out in the classroom when needed. My parents attended every PTA meeting, they made sure that I did my homework and they made sure that I was getting good grades.
Today, that isn't good enough. Parents need to come and baby their kids during school time. Parents now roam up and down the halls, they send nasty grams to the teachers if their kid isn't 100% perfect at everything, their children can do no wrong, they come into the classroom and have the audacity to say that "You aren't doing this right" or "Are you sure you should be doing that?" What the hell is happening?
Well that's pretty preachy, and you also ignore and emphasize the point of segmentation here, which is not the general case at all. If the segmentation was the problem as you said, and not the parents themselves, why don't you raise that alone as a specific point?
Tough. It's part of the job. Don't work in retail if you can't deal with customers. Don't get a job dealing with kids if you can't deal with their parents. Are the parents right in this case? No, probably not. Maybe learning how to deal with them directly would be a better effort than complaining second-hand on an online tech forum. And don't they teach this stuff in teachers' college? Education these days, pfft. (<- joke)
Gross generalization, and idiotic btw. This point was raised a long time ago in this thread. If you want have a reasonable discussion, you don't demonize the other side to the point of absurdity. If you want to argue that anyone who controls their kids lives 100% are doing them a disservice, you?re right. If you want to argue that having lunch with very young kids necessarily means that, you're wrong.
With this, you're changing the subject from lunch detail to a general rant against parents in education, and it's time for me to leave.
Tough. It's part of the job. Don't work in retail if you can't deal with customers. Don't get a job dealing with kids if you can't deal with their parents. Are the parents right in this case? No, probably not. Maybe learning how to deal with them directly would be a better effort than complaining second-hand on an online tech forum. And don't they teach this stuff in teachers' college? Education these days, pfft. (<- joke)
Gross generalization, and idiotic btw. This point was raised a long time ago in this thread. If you want have a reasonable discussion, you don't demonize the other side to the point of absurdity. If you want to argue that anyone who controls their kids lives 100% are doing them a disservice, you?re right. If you want to argue that having lunch with very young kids necessarily means that, you're wrong.
With this, you're changing the subject from lunch detail to a general rant against parents in education, and it's time for me to leave.
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
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When my GF discusses her day to me everyday after the school, the way that parents seem to rule the school was always a sticking point for me. The part about the seperate room for parent/student was what boiled the pot over.
It's just that being a teacher is hard enough and then having parents trying to do your job for you at school makes it even tougher. Being that my GF will be a teacher, and I will be marrying this woman, how she is treated in the future and what she will have to go through makes it feel very personal to me.
A funny part about this is that when the thread started, you mentioned that this part wasn't such a big deal to her. I understand the defending your other and sharing her problems, but you also have to understand the difference between first-hand and second-hand in this, and that it's a complicated issue, and simple-minded thoughts such as "kick all the parents out" and that ranting online and otherwise is not a solution.
From the broader rant, I agree that there is what I'd say a "management issue" with the school. Who's the management? Some parents obviously think they are. "You" probably need to convert them to customers not management here. But "you"'d better listen to them too, they do have some rights. And the real management, by allowing the customers to rule the store, so to speak, might not be doing their part of the job here.
Again, simple overall solutions won't exist. "You"'ll have to deal with the issues individually. Lunch with kid, separate from others? Maybe the segmentation can be lessened to greater overall benefit without needlessly reducing the number of adults around. Maybe this alone is not the end of the world and compromises can be workable.
Nasty letters to teachers? These will probably be have to handled delicately, individually, by the teacher.
What's pretty much guaranteed to fail would be the soft of demonizing and simple parent opposing that's seen in this thread.
- Oct 9, 1999
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I don't think it's a matter of kicking all the parents out. Far from it. I guess the way I see it, it's more a of a "Know your role" sort of thing. The teachers are there to do the best that they can for the students. They want what's best for the students or they wouldn't be there -- it's not a gold mine, that's for sure. They're doing it because they love the students and they love teaching.
As for eating alone with your kids at school. I just have to ask this. What is the benefit for the child with the parent sitting eating alone with them vs eating together with their schoolmates? I don't actually think I've actually heard someone say what the benefit is for their child. I have heard some say that it makes THEMSELVES feel better.
we had some parents in the elementary school I went to who were teacher's aides. Most of them asked to switch grades if their child was in/entering that grade. This way they were there, and knew what was going on at school, but not directly in contact with the kid all day, and generally the kid would go get lunch from their mother, then run off to eat with their friends. It was the kid's choice to not eat with their mother. Not because it was uncool, but generally (this was only like 12 years ago) the kids would see the parents after school, and eat dinner with them. They wouldn't get to eat dinner with their friends. Maybe like it had been suggested, there be an option for the kid to say "...no, mom/dad, I want to eat with my friends. can you eat with them too?"
I wouldn't have wanted my grandmother to come take me away to eat with me every day, just because I wanted to eat with my friends. I tend to disagree when they say that the rest of school can be used as a time for socialization. At least where I went to school, you were supposed to be paying attention, not socializing (I got in trouble for that quite a bit. and I'm pretty quiet.) Hell, even if she ate with my friends, I'd find that a little unnerving just cause parents sometimes can make the kid feel uncomfortable, sometimes even the other kids felt uncomfortable because the parent would get on the kid about, I dunno, chewing with his mouth open on accident. I know my friends felt the same way. (Nowadays though I love eating with my friend's parents)
That said, the coolest kid wasn't the one whose parents sat and ate with them, but was the one whose parents had yard duty that day during lunch (we ate outside on benches and then went and played wiffle ball, the parents had to sign up for a certain number of days or give a certain amount of money) and would bring the kid something to eat, like pizza or burritos. They would leave the kid to eat, but still be participating in the school and watching the kid.
I wouldn't have wanted my grandmother to come take me away to eat with me every day, just because I wanted to eat with my friends. I tend to disagree when they say that the rest of school can be used as a time for socialization. At least where I went to school, you were supposed to be paying attention, not socializing (I got in trouble for that quite a bit. and I'm pretty quiet.) Hell, even if she ate with my friends, I'd find that a little unnerving just cause parents sometimes can make the kid feel uncomfortable, sometimes even the other kids felt uncomfortable because the parent would get on the kid about, I dunno, chewing with his mouth open on accident. I know my friends felt the same way. (Nowadays though I love eating with my friend's parents)
That said, the coolest kid wasn't the one whose parents sat and ate with them, but was the one whose parents had yard duty that day during lunch (we ate outside on benches and then went and played wiffle ball, the parents had to sign up for a certain number of days or give a certain amount of money) and would bring the kid something to eat, like pizza or burritos. They would leave the kid to eat, but still be participating in the school and watching the kid.
Seriously, you would be teased for that. But yeah, that's a very bourgeoi thing to do. It's like the parents think that their kid is too good to sit with the other kids, but that's usually not the case. Other than that, it's kind of cute I guess, and shows that the mom cares. If she wanted to combine both worlds, she could at least sit with the other kids if they liked her (she made funny jokes, etc.).
HamburgerBoy
Lifer
- Apr 12, 2004
- 27,111
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Seriously? Here the kids with PTA parents were the most bullied. Their parents were always with them to defend them from anything and everything. Those types always had a tissue to cry into when someone beat them at handball and got their yard duty parents to take their side. No young child likes suckups.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,742
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I don't think you're being an "ass" about it, but you are being ridiculous about it. Like someone else mentioned, many kids go home for Lunch, at least in smaller communities or where they live close to school.
This isn't going to undermine Civilization. It's not going to create poorly socialized kids. "Dependency" is a Red Herring arguement, all kids are Dependent up to a certain age. Chill dude(s/ette/s), let Parents be Parents.
This isn't going to undermine Civilization. It's not going to create poorly socialized kids. "Dependency" is a Red Herring arguement, all kids are Dependent up to a certain age. Chill dude(s/ette/s), let Parents be Parents.
Great, that will create definite social divisions. At least the parents will be happy, I mean that's what children are for.
rudder
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
- 19,441
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Because my child enjoys when I get the chance to eat lunch with her. There is not room for an extra 2-3 people at the table so we sit at a seperate table with her.
PLus some of these kids are so starved for attention its hard to get lunch eaten in the alloted time so its best to sit away from them.
blckgrffn
Diamond Member
My dad would come to lunch some times during the hot lunch week that any parent could come too. He just sat in the cafeteria with me and ate the same lunch and talked to my friends. It was pretty cool.
My dad is a farmer, so he came when he could
I don't think parents should really be pulling their kids out on a regular basis. My guess is most kids would rather be with their friends anyway...
Nat
My dad is a farmer, so he came when he could
I don't think parents should really be pulling their kids out on a regular basis. My guess is most kids would rather be with their friends anyway...
Nat
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
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