Maxed Out

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: techs
The biggest predator in the economy is large corporations who thru collusion and market dominance fix prices and lower workers earnings.

You don't really think that businesses lower wages and increase their profit margins, as a percentage of revenue, by arbitrary fiat, do you? The mechanism for decreasing the wages is to merge the American middle class with the impoverished third world in a process called global labor arbitrage.

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)

It seems like the corporations are trying to collude with the mainstream media and the government to allow this and to convince the populace that it is good for them. Of course, it is good for many Americans--until they lose their jobs.

In other words, you're a nationalist and a xenophobe spreading FUD.

Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"? :roll:

No, he is a real American that loves his country unlike those that hate America and hell bent on destroying it to make himself rich at the expense of all others.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: techs
The biggest predator in the economy is large corporations who thru collusion and market dominance fix prices and lower workers earnings.

You don't really think that businesses lower wages and increase their profit margins, as a percentage of revenue, by arbitrary fiat, do you? The mechanism for decreasing the wages is to merge the American middle class with the impoverished third world in a process called global labor arbitrage.

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)

It seems like the corporations are trying to collude with the mainstream media and the government to allow this and to convince the populace that it is good for them. Of course, it is good for many Americans--until they lose their jobs.

In other words, you're a nationalist and a xenophobe spreading FUD.

Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"? :roll:

No, he is a real American that loves his country unlike those that hate America and hell bent on destroying it to make himself rich at the expense of all others.

Do you need your hood and sheet washed for the cross burning tonight, massah?

:roll:

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: techs
The biggest predator in the economy is large corporations who thru collusion and market dominance fix prices and lower workers earnings.

You don't really think that businesses lower wages and increase their profit margins, as a percentage of revenue, by arbitrary fiat, do you? The mechanism for decreasing the wages is to merge the American middle class with the impoverished third world in a process called global labor arbitrage.

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)

It seems like the corporations are trying to collude with the mainstream media and the government to allow this and to convince the populace that it is good for them. Of course, it is good for many Americans--until they lose their jobs.

In other words, you're a nationalist and a xenophobe spreading FUD. Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"?

:roll:

I notice your personal attack without bothering to question the premise of the post:

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)


I take serious note of your FUD:

Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"?

Do you need your hood and sheet washed for the cross burning tonight, massah?

In my state we have lost over 200k jobs. We are moving forward but with great difficulty. When manufacturing jobs that pay $15-$20/hr plus bennies are replaced with Wally jobs that pay $7.68/hr with no bennies its hard to make ends meet. I'm sorry that many persons on this thread lack empathy and understanding of this personal strife, characterize them as a matter of 'personal resonsibility' and resort to tired, mistaken stereotypes such as yours.

and btw - My 'dixiecrat' banks are going to buy your banks, financial institutions and investment groups. I hope your jobs are not out-sourced, cut by attrition or eliminated due to duplication but, yah know, they are entitled to a profit.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: techs
The biggest predator in the economy is large corporations who thru collusion and market dominance fix prices and lower workers earnings.

You don't really think that businesses lower wages and increase their profit margins, as a percentage of revenue, by arbitrary fiat, do you? The mechanism for decreasing the wages is to merge the American middle class with the impoverished third world in a process called global labor arbitrage.

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)

It seems like the corporations are trying to collude with the mainstream media and the government to allow this and to convince the populace that it is good for them. Of course, it is good for many Americans--until they lose their jobs.

In other words, you're a nationalist and a xenophobe spreading FUD. Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"?

:roll:

I notice your personal attack without bothering to question the premise of the post:

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)


I take serious note of your FUD:

Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"?

Do you need your hood and sheet washed for the cross burning tonight, massah?

In my state we have lost over 200k jobs. We are moving forward but with great difficulty. When manufacturing jobs that pay $15-$20/hr plus bennies are replaced with Wally jobs that pay $7.68/hr with no bennies its hard to make ends meet. I'm sorry that many persons on this thread lack empathy and understanding of this personal strife, characterize them as a matter of 'personal resonsibility' and resort to tired, mistaken stereotypes such as yours.

and btw - My 'dixiecrat' banks are going to buy your banks, financial institutions and investment groups. I hope your jobs are not out-sourced, cut by attrition or eliminated due to duplication but, yah know, they are entitled to a profit.

Take as much "serious note" as you want, you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda.

Plus, you clearly have no fsckin clue whatsoever what "FUD" and "Dixiecrat" mean.
"FUD" is lying and crying that we're losing jobs to foreigners and OMG now all the "Real Americans" have to work at Wal-Mart!!
"Dixiecrats" were the Southern Democrat voting KKK members who would scream that the blacks were taking all the white jobs. Wow! That sounds so familiar!!

It's so funny how similar left and right extremists are to each other. On one side, it's the illegals taking all the jobs, on the other, it's "outsourcing." But in truth, you're all just bigots who don't want to see an expansion of development, trade, and jobs to people who aren't "Real Americans."


edit: please post your state, and I will gladly search for and post the real employment numbers. I'd be more than happy to expose your lies of 200k people lost their jobs to all work at Wally world for minimum wage as the FUD it is.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: sandorski
Self-control/ personal responsibility is needed. All the liberals will scoff at the idea, but the situation has gotten out of hand and the consumers/users refuse to Regulate themselves.

Fixed.

Sorry, no. You can go ahead and wish the meltdown of your Country based upon bad Policy, but don't drag the rest of your citizens down with you.

Uhhhh, I'm not wishing for a melt-down. However this mess wouldn't exist if people had enough personal responsibility to live within their means and not over extend themselves. Blaming people who offer the credit misses the real problem and no "regulation" by big brother is going to change that. People need to change themselves and their spending habbits and learn to live within their means.

 

[NaughtyGeek]

you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda

I fail to see how the statement that the dollar is being devalued by outsourcing, immigration and foreign work Visas constitutes "lying" and racism. A lot of people did lose their jobs to "the black man" as you put it, but that wasn't the fault of the black man as it was portrayed at the time. It was the fault of the companies who are morally bankrupt and will replace any worker they can regardless of personal circumstance to save a buck. That's where the problem with outsourcing, immigration, and work visas (you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda) lie as well and it seems to me the blame is being directed at those companies rather than the people they employ.

Personally I have no problem with other countries expanding their economies but I have a problem when the company that was founded in America, using American resources and using American tax breaks moves my job to Mexico, Canada or China because it's more cost effective. But, I want my cheap consumer goods so I'm just as big a part of that problem as the companies who perpetuate it.

Personal responsibility is a very large part of the issue being addressed here, but it's not all of it. They call it "predatory lending" for a reason. And if you've never found yourself overextended due to loss of work, illness, or divorce then count your blessings and be glad you'll never understand how good people can fall pray to the BS these companies are allowed to get away with.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek

you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda

I fail to see how the statement that the dollar is being devalued by outsourcing, immigration and foreign work Visas constitutes "lying" and racism. A lot of people did lose their jobs to "the black man" as you put it, but that wasn't the fault of the black man as it was portrayed at the time. It was the fault of the companies who are morally bankrupt and will replace any worker they can regardless of personal circumstance to save a buck. That's where the problem with outsourcing, immigration, and work visas (you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda) lie as well and it seems to me the blame is being directed at those companies rather than the people they employ.

Personally I have no problem with other countries expanding their economies but I have a problem when the company that was founded in America, using American resources and using American tax breaks moves my job to Mexico, Canada or China because it's more cost effective. But, I want my cheap consumer goods so I'm just as big a part of that problem as the companies who perpetuate it.

Personal responsibility is a very large part of the issue being addressed here, but it's not all of it. They call it "predatory lending" for a reason. And if you've never found yourself overextended due to loss of work, illness, or divorce then count your blessings and be glad you'll never understand how good people can fall pray to the BS these companies are allowed to get away with.

It is simply amazing the extreme leaps of illogic that you conspiracy types will go to in order to justify your ignorance and bigotry.
And just to help you out, illogic is defined as extrapolating the specific into the general, i.e. inductive instead of deductive. For every genuine hard luck case, there's a thousand people who really did use their credit irresponsibly. For every blue collar job lost to Mexico nd China, there's a white collar job gained. For every corporation in America, there's a small business owner (and countless more individual investors).

Think about your own argument. Even if it wasn't the black man's fault, you're still arguing that America is worse off because "morally bankrupt" companies let the black man have better jobs.
And is that true? Factually and in all reality, fsck no.

Think about what you're defending. The argument that only "Real Americans" should be allowed to have "American jobs." You hide it in pro-unionist/anti-corporation talk but really that's all BS, now isn't it?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: sandorski
Self-control/ personal responsibility is needed. All the liberals will scoff at the idea, but the situation has gotten out of hand and the consumers/users refuse to Regulate themselves.

Fixed.

Sorry, no. You can go ahead and wish the meltdown of your Country based upon bad Policy, but don't drag the rest of your citizens down with you.

Uhhhh, I'm not wishing for a melt-down. However this mess wouldn't exist if people had enough personal responsibility to live within their means and not over extend themselves. Blaming people who offer the credit misses the real problem and no "regulation" by big brother is going to change that. People need to change themselves and their spending habbits and learn to live within their means.

Hush, come give uncle a hug. Ok, time for bed CAD, Uncle Sammy is going to tuck you in real nice and take gooood care of you. Don't you worry about a thing.

ANYWAY the idea that H1 and L visas are affecting Americans is a farce. In 2006 there were a whopping 65,000 H1s and 53,000 Ls. This isn't affecting jaaaaaaaack squat. Moreover, these are in most cases (at least the H1s) jobs by people who're educated and have an above average income than the typical American. In short, if there was ever an argument to be made that they are doing jobs americans cannot, it would be for H1s, because employers are not paying them peanuts. A guy I know amking $82k on an H1 has been out of school for 3 years. He works in IT. If anybody else was doing what he's doing (and he's good but no super-duper insane whiz), they could be making great scratch, too. I know a couple of other Indians, one making in the 60's and another over 100. They are not taking any American job and spending most of their money domestically unlike a certain group of people who are propping up a certain country to the south with their wire transfers.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski
Regulation is needed. All the De-regs will scoff at the idea, but the situation has gotten out of hand and the CC Companies refuse to Regulate themselves.

Let couple tumble and watch as they get their act together. This coddling of certain industries because we fear the aftermath of its failure is a drain on our economy.

That is why I scoffed at Hillarys plan to bail out these lenders with public money under the guise of helping the homeowner. We need to feel pain to change our ways. Coddling these people only enables this behavior.

It's not about Coddling anyone. It's about preventing Meltdowns in the Market and preventing people from getting into Debt they can't Afford.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

Well, what a way to put it----but the question can become---what happens if the fat cats have the game rigged which is often the case---then people take personal responsibility and blow the rigged system up. Such people are called terrorists by some and freedom fighters by others. And Uncle Sam jumps into your wallet to pay you to rid us of the plague of terrorism when maybe Uncle Sammy should be doing something to make the game fairer instead.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

Well, what a way to put it----but the question can become---what happens if the fat cats have the game rigged which is often the case---then people take personal responsibility and blow the rigged system up. Such people are called terrorists by some and freedom fighters by others. And Uncle Sam jumps into your wallet to pay you to rid us of the plague of terrorism when maybe Uncle Sammy should be doing something to make the game fairer instead.

that may be the most ridiculous thin I've ever seen you write...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

I'm sure you'll be among the first to agree that I'm a pretty huge liberal when it comes to most every issue, but this is definitely an area where I think "personal responsibility" is something more than a Republican bumper sticker philosophy. Spending less than you take in is a pretty fundamental concept, and no matter what sort of scheme banks and other lending institutions are offering, you pretty much have to follow this particular maxim.

I part ways with conservatives when it comes to people who truly don't make enough money to live in modern society, but I have no sympathy at all for people who just can't understand the simple idea of not spending more than you take in. People who offer predatory lending are scum, IMHO, but the people who TAKE those predatory terms are just idiots. And worse, they distract from the truly disadvantaged, who become all too easy to confuse with the people who don't understand that there is no such thing as free money.

 

[jackace]

The problem we have is the system forces someone to be a loser. Some of those losers are in our own country and some are in other countries. Basically we need poor people and people in debt up to their ears for the system to work. Our system is designed around debt. It's not going away.

 

[MadRat]

If excess money is in the system due to predatory lending then prices should be spiralling out of control.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

I'm sure you'll be among the first to agree that I'm a pretty huge liberal when it comes to most every issue, but this is definitely an area where I think "personal responsibility" is something more than a Republican bumper sticker philosophy. Spending less than you take in is a pretty fundamental concept, and no matter what sort of scheme banks and other lending institutions are offering, you pretty much have to follow this particular maxim.

I part ways with conservatives when it comes to people who truly don't make enough money to live in modern society, but I have no sympathy at all for people who just can't understand the simple idea of not spending more than you take in. People who offer predatory lending are scum, IMHO, but the people who TAKE those predatory terms are just idiots. And worse, they distract from the truly disadvantaged, who become all too easy to confuse with the people who don't understand that there is no such thing as free money.

The problem is that people saw their homes as investments rather than homes. Everyone starting putting investment and housing together. It was everywhere, advertising, newspapers, etc. The lenders spun it around good; you weren't living beyond your means, you were investing your money.

 

[jackace]

Originally posted by: MadRat
If excess money is in the system due to predatory lending then prices should be spiralling out of control.

The problem is real earnings have not increased with the increases in prices. So the increase in credit is what allowed prices to increase in the first place.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

I'm sure you'll be among the first to agree that I'm a pretty huge liberal when it comes to most every issue, but this is definitely an area where I think "personal responsibility" is something more than a Republican bumper sticker philosophy. Spending less than you take in is a pretty fundamental concept, and no matter what sort of scheme banks and other lending institutions are offering, you pretty much have to follow this particular maxim.

I part ways with conservatives when it comes to people who truly don't make enough money to live in modern society, but I have no sympathy at all for people who just can't understand the simple idea of not spending more than you take in. People who offer predatory lending are scum, IMHO, but the people who TAKE those predatory terms are just idiots. And worse, they distract from the truly disadvantaged, who become all too easy to confuse with the people who don't understand that there is no such thing as free money.

I think you fail to recognize that those idiots were trained to be idiots by a capitalistic system. They have spent their lives being trained to buy and compete with their neighbors as to who has the most things. It would be easy to create a nation of people who save. We could just every few months, oh lets say, have a famine. The whole character of society would change.

It is so appealing to think in terms of responsibility because it fits so nicely with self hate. We who have can look down our noses at those who can't manage so well, and rant and rail against fate, if we happen to fail. A people infected with self hate actually demand there be losers. What would be the point, otherwise, in playing the game. To feel like a winner you need to know that others are worse off.

But the real point is that self hate is destructive in a way that never allows you to see the source. If you can't remember what happened in your childhood to create your self loathing you are unconscious of what motivates you. To be unconscious is not the same as to be irresponsible because you have no choice in your unconsciousness. You cannot know what you hide from yourself without experiencing enormous pain. Why blame others for what you cannot do.

 

[jackace]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

I'm sure you'll be among the first to agree that I'm a pretty huge liberal when it comes to most every issue, but this is definitely an area where I think "personal responsibility" is something more than a Republican bumper sticker philosophy. Spending less than you take in is a pretty fundamental concept, and no matter what sort of scheme banks and other lending institutions are offering, you pretty much have to follow this particular maxim.

I part ways with conservatives when it comes to people who truly don't make enough money to live in modern society, but I have no sympathy at all for people who just can't understand the simple idea of not spending more than you take in. People who offer predatory lending are scum, IMHO, but the people who TAKE those predatory terms are just idiots. And worse, they distract from the truly disadvantaged, who become all too easy to confuse with the people who don't understand that there is no such thing as free money.

I think you fail to recognize that those idiots were trained to be idiots by a capitalistic system. They have spent their lives being trained to buy and compete with their neighbors as to who has the most things. It would be easy to create a nation of people who save. We could just every few months, oh lets say, have a famine. The whole character of society would change.

It is so appealing to think in terms of responsibility because it fits so nicely with self hate. We who have can look down our noses at those who can't manage so well, and rant and rail against fate, if we happen to fail. A people infected with self hate actually demand there be losers. What would be the point, otherwise, in playing the game. To feel like a winner you need to know that others are worse off.

But the real point is that self hate is destructive in a way that never allows you to see the source. If you can't remember what happened in your childhood to create your self loathing you are unconscious of what motivates you. To be unconscious is not the same as to be irresponsible because you have no choice in your unconsciousness. You cannot know what you hide from yourself without experiencing enormous pain. Why blame others for what you cannot do.

Just wanted to say. Nice post Moonbeam. The system is flawed, and we have been raised and taught to play by rules that are flawed.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

I'm sure you'll be among the first to agree that I'm a pretty huge liberal when it comes to most every issue, but this is definitely an area where I think "personal responsibility" is something more than a Republican bumper sticker philosophy. Spending less than you take in is a pretty fundamental concept, and no matter what sort of scheme banks and other lending institutions are offering, you pretty much have to follow this particular maxim.

I part ways with conservatives when it comes to people who truly don't make enough money to live in modern society, but I have no sympathy at all for people who just can't understand the simple idea of not spending more than you take in. People who offer predatory lending are scum, IMHO, but the people who TAKE those predatory terms are just idiots. And worse, they distract from the truly disadvantaged, who become all too easy to confuse with the people who don't understand that there is no such thing as free money.

Sorry you fell for their bumper sticker slogan hock line and sinker. Just think about it why do they talk about personal responsibility and not just responsibility? Simple how can you before personal responsibility and be a corporate whore at the same time. The whole idea behind a corporation is to remove personal responsibility. When republicans make share holder responsible for the actions of the corporation then they can talk about personal responsibility until then they can shove it.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

Sorry you fell for their bumper sticker slogan hock line and sinker. Just think about it why do they talk about personal responsibility and not just responsibility? Simple how can you before personal responsibility and be a corporate whore at the same time. The whole idea behind a corporation is to remove personal responsibility. When republicans make share holder responsible for the actions of the corporation then they can talk about personal responsibility until then they can shove it.

Amen, Brother.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

In other words, you're a nationalist and a xenophobe spreading FUD.

Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"? :roll:

No, he is a real American that loves his country unlike those that hate America and hell bent on destroying it to make himself rich at the expense of all others.

Thank you for exposing the hypocritical 'moneychangers' and their Gordon Gecko mentality of "greed is good."

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: techs
The biggest predator in the economy is large corporations who thru collusion and market dominance fix prices and lower workers earnings.

You don't really think that businesses lower wages and increase their profit margins, as a percentage of revenue, by arbitrary fiat, do you? The mechanism for decreasing the wages is to merge the American middle class with the impoverished third world in a process called global labor arbitrage.

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)

It seems like the corporations are trying to collude with the mainstream media and the government to allow this and to convince the populace that it is good for them. Of course, it is good for many Americans--until they lose their jobs.

In other words, you're a nationalist and a xenophobe spreading FUD. Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"?

:roll:

I notice your personal attack without bothering to question the premise of the post:

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)


I take serious note of your FUD:

Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"?

Do you need your hood and sheet washed for the cross burning tonight, massah?

In my state we have lost over 200k jobs. We are moving forward but with great difficulty. When manufacturing jobs that pay $15-$20/hr plus bennies are replaced with Wally jobs that pay $7.68/hr with no bennies its hard to make ends meet. I'm sorry that many persons on this thread lack empathy and understanding of this personal strife, characterize them as a matter of 'personal resonsibility' and resort to tired, mistaken stereotypes such as yours.

and btw - My 'dixiecrat' banks are going to buy your banks, financial institutions and investment groups. I hope your jobs are not out-sourced, cut by attrition or eliminated due to duplication but, yah know, they are entitled to a profit.

Take as much "serious note" as you want, you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda.

Plus, you clearly have no fsckin clue whatsoever what "FUD" and "Dixiecrat" mean.
"FUD" is lying and crying that we're losing jobs to foreigners and OMG now all the "Real Americans" have to work at Wal-Mart!!
"Dixiecrats" were the Southern Democrat voting KKK members who would scream that the blacks were taking all the white jobs. Wow! That sounds so familiar!!

It's so funny how similar left and right extremists are to each other. On one side, it's the illegals taking all the jobs, on the other, it's "outsourcing." But in truth, you're all just bigots who don't want to see an expansion of development, trade, and jobs to people who aren't "Real Americans."


edit: please post your state, and I will gladly search for and post the real employment numbers. I'd be more than happy to expose your lies of 200k people lost their jobs to all work at Wally world for minimum wage as the FUD it is.

You are a legend in your own mind.

You hold your 'facts' and opinion superior to that of others. You resort to personal attacks and fallacious reasoning. If someone does not toe your line of BS they are "lying". You are condecending and your posts demonstrate that you feel you are intellectually superior to others.

And what I find most amusing is that you condemn someone for "looking down from the high horse of your keyboard" when you have averaged over 4,000 posts a year to this forum over the past six years.

Project much, Vic?

Originally posted by: Vic
...Take as much "serious note" as you want, you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda....

please post your state, and I will gladly search for and post the real employment numbers. I'd be more than happy to expose your lies of 200k people lost their jobs to all work at Wally world for minimum wage as the FUD it is.

I like this game, Vic. Since you feel I am intectually inferior to you I'm going to play by my own 'lying, racist' rules and make you guess the state in which I reside.

What state am I, Vic?

Over the past 11 years or so my state has lost over 250,000 manufacturing jobs (NAICS 31- thru 33-). For those of you who are wondering "NAICS' stands for North American Industry Classification System. Industries within the Manufacturing supersector are expected to considerably continue their decline. And btw, Vic, the projected largest decline in jobs by percentage in my state over the next 5 years is NAICS Code 21 - Mining.

According to the Industry and Occupational Projections for my state :

The occupation Cashiers is expected to have the largest number of annual openings out of 765 occupations. Out of the top 25 occupations with largest annual openings, only three require a postsecondary vocational training or higher. The vast majority of these top 25 largest annual-opening occupations require only short-term or moderate-term on-the-job training.

Statewide Top 10 Occupations with Largest Annual Openings thru 2012
Cashiers - 7,400 jobs/yr
Retail Salespersons - 6,100 jobs/yr
Waiters and Waitresses - 4,600 jobs/yr
Fast Food Prep & Serving - 4,500 jobs/yr
Registered Nurses - 3,600 jobs/yr
Hand Laborers - 3,200 jobs/yr
Office Clerks - 2,800 jobs/yr
Operation Managers - 2,500 jobs/yr
Truck Drivers - 2,200 jobs/yr
Customer Service Reps - 2,100 jobs/yr

Facts got your tongue, Vic ???

What state am I, Vic?

Do you have any clue?

Do you need more help?

I repeat:

We are moving forward but with great difficulty. When manufacturing jobs that pay $15-$20/hr plus bennies are replaced with Wally jobs that pay $7.68/hr with no bennies its hard to make ends meet.

I'm sorry that many persons on this thread lack empathy and understanding of this personal strife, characterize them as a matter of 'personal resonsibility' and resort to tired, mistaken stereotypes

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

I'm sure you'll be among the first to agree that I'm a pretty huge liberal when it comes to most every issue, but this is definitely an area where I think "personal responsibility" is something more than a Republican bumper sticker philosophy. Spending less than you take in is a pretty fundamental concept, and no matter what sort of scheme banks and other lending institutions are offering, you pretty much have to follow this particular maxim.

I part ways with conservatives when it comes to people who truly don't make enough money to live in modern society, but I have no sympathy at all for people who just can't understand the simple idea of not spending more than you take in. People who offer predatory lending are scum, IMHO, but the people who TAKE those predatory terms are just idiots. And worse, they distract from the truly disadvantaged, who become all too easy to confuse with the people who don't understand that there is no such thing as free money.

Sorry you fell for their bumper sticker slogan hock line and sinker. Just think about it why do they talk about personal responsibility and not just responsibility? Simple how can you before personal responsibility and be a corporate whore at the same time. The whole idea behind a corporation is to remove personal responsibility. When republicans make share holder responsible for the actions of the corporation then they can talk about personal responsibility until then they can shove it.

Don't get your panties in a bunch, read the REST of my post. In general, I think the economic views of Republicans/conservatives are ridiculous and hypocritical. I think "personal responsibility" IS a bumper sticker philosophy for most of them, especially since it's said more to score political points than because they truly believe it. As you pointed out, calls for responsibility seems to stop at corporations (and the government).

That said, "responsibility" is something we don't respect enough in our society, and we don't push for it anywhere. Corporations, the government, and individuals seem content to screw up themselves and then blame some vast edifice for their problems. When it comes to individuals, I do not believe that everyone who is down on their luck did it to themselves, but I do believe that when it IS because of something dumb they did, we should call them on it.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two words: personal responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people beg for Uncle Sam to step in and play Daddy after they screw up their own lives. Grow up and live within your means, or die broke and poor - I don't care which you pick. Either way, stay out of my wallet, and stop asking Uncle Sam to save you from yourself.

I'm sure you'll be among the first to agree that I'm a pretty huge liberal when it comes to most every issue, but this is definitely an area where I think "personal responsibility" is something more than a Republican bumper sticker philosophy. Spending less than you take in is a pretty fundamental concept, and no matter what sort of scheme banks and other lending institutions are offering, you pretty much have to follow this particular maxim.

I part ways with conservatives when it comes to people who truly don't make enough money to live in modern society, but I have no sympathy at all for people who just can't understand the simple idea of not spending more than you take in. People who offer predatory lending are scum, IMHO, but the people who TAKE those predatory terms are just idiots. And worse, they distract from the truly disadvantaged, who become all too easy to confuse with the people who don't understand that there is no such thing as free money.

I think you fail to recognize that those idiots were trained to be idiots by a capitalistic system. They have spent their lives being trained to buy and compete with their neighbors as to who has the most things. It would be easy to create a nation of people who save. We could just every few months, oh lets say, have a famine. The whole character of society would change.

It is so appealing to think in terms of responsibility because it fits so nicely with self hate. We who have can look down our noses at those who can't manage so well, and rant and rail against fate, if we happen to fail. A people infected with self hate actually demand there be losers. What would be the point, otherwise, in playing the game. To feel like a winner you need to know that others are worse off.

But the real point is that self hate is destructive in a way that never allows you to see the source. If you can't remember what happened in your childhood to create your self loathing you are unconscious of what motivates you. To be unconscious is not the same as to be irresponsible because you have no choice in your unconsciousness. You cannot know what you hide from yourself without experiencing enormous pain. Why blame others for what you cannot do.

I'd say that a lack of personal responsibility is more likely to be a condition of self-hate than anything else. The idea that we are all powerless tools of someone else, or worse, powerless tools of the capitalist system, or Hollywood, or government, or our primate impulses, seems to directly come from the self-hating ideologies common in western culture, especially western religion. A far more positive outlook says we are NOT controlled by fate, that our destiny is indeed our own, and that bad things are not just unavoidable "bad luck".

Now that doesn't mean you can't take this idea too far...in fact I think you're right on in your description of a lot of our society. I believe many economic conservatives profess a belief in personal responsibility for exactly the reasons you suggest, because it allows them to feel superior by virtue of their lot in life, even if they didn't do a damn thing to earn it, which might explain the Republican party's popularity among rich kids from rich families.

Needless to say, it's really two sides of the same coin...as most extreme positions tend to be. A fatalistic belief in destiny is a pretty easy ideology to hold, as it makes no demands or requirements on you. If we are powerless to affect our success in life, why bother trying? And the conservative rejection of the reality that some things are just dumb luck is similarly a lazy ideology, if your life is just working out fine, there is no need to push yourself...you get credit for your success, even if it is because you got hired because your Dad is the CEO of the company...and there is no need to help out those less fortunate, because if fortune is total bullshit, then everyone who is doing badly in life must have deserved it.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: techs
The biggest predator in the economy is large corporations who thru collusion and market dominance fix prices and lower workers earnings.

You don't really think that businesses lower wages and increase their profit margins, as a percentage of revenue, by arbitrary fiat, do you? The mechanism for decreasing the wages is to merge the American middle class with the impoverished third world in a process called global labor arbitrage.

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)

It seems like the corporations are trying to collude with the mainstream media and the government to allow this and to convince the populace that it is good for them. Of course, it is good for many Americans--until they lose their jobs.

In other words, you're a nationalist and a xenophobe spreading FUD. Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"?

:roll:

I notice your personal attack without bothering to question the premise of the post:

American wages are being decreased by:

Offshoring (aka Foreign Outsourcing)
Foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1)
Mass Immigration (both legal and illegal)


I take serious note of your FUD:

Did your Dixiecrat grandaddy used to preach about how the white man was losing his job to the "coloreds"?

Do you need your hood and sheet washed for the cross burning tonight, massah?

In my state we have lost over 200k jobs. We are moving forward but with great difficulty. When manufacturing jobs that pay $15-$20/hr plus bennies are replaced with Wally jobs that pay $7.68/hr with no bennies its hard to make ends meet. I'm sorry that many persons on this thread lack empathy and understanding of this personal strife, characterize them as a matter of 'personal resonsibility' and resort to tired, mistaken stereotypes such as yours.

and btw - My 'dixiecrat' banks are going to buy your banks, financial institutions and investment groups. I hope your jobs are not out-sourced, cut by attrition or eliminated due to duplication but, yah know, they are entitled to a profit.

Take as much "serious note" as you want, you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda.

Plus, you clearly have no fsckin clue whatsoever what "FUD" and "Dixiecrat" mean.
"FUD" is lying and crying that we're losing jobs to foreigners and OMG now all the "Real Americans" have to work at Wal-Mart!!
"Dixiecrats" were the Southern Democrat voting KKK members who would scream that the blacks were taking all the white jobs. Wow! That sounds so familiar!!

It's so funny how similar left and right extremists are to each other. On one side, it's the illegals taking all the jobs, on the other, it's "outsourcing." But in truth, you're all just bigots who don't want to see an expansion of development, trade, and jobs to people who aren't "Real Americans."


edit: please post your state, and I will gladly search for and post the real employment numbers. I'd be more than happy to expose your lies of 200k people lost their jobs to all work at Wally world for minimum wage as the FUD it is.

You are a legend in your own mind.

You hold your 'facts' and opinion superior to that of others. You resort to personal attacks and fallacious reasoning. If someone does not toe your line of BS they are "lying". You are condecending and your posts demonstrate that you feel you are intellectually superior to others.

And what I find most amusing is that you condemn someone for "looking down from the high horse of your keyboard" when you have averaged over 4,000 posts a year to this forum over the past six years.

Project much, Vic?

Originally posted by: Vic
...Take as much "serious note" as you want, you are simply lying for the sake of a nationalistic/racist agenda....

please post your state, and I will gladly search for and post the real employment numbers. I'd be more than happy to expose your lies of 200k people lost their jobs to all work at Wally world for minimum wage as the FUD it is.

I like this game, Vic. Since you feel I am intectually inferior to you I'm going to play by my own 'lying, racist' rules and make you guess the state in which I reside.

What state am I, Vic?

Over the past 11 years or so my state has lost over 250,000 manufacturing jobs (NAICS 31- thru 33-). For those of you who are wondering "NAICS' stands for North American Industry Classification System. Industries within the Manufacturing supersector are expected to considerably continue their decline. And btw, Vic, the projected largest decline in jobs by percentage in my state over the next 5 years is NAICS Code 21 - Mining.

According to the Industry and Occupational Projections for my state :

The occupation Cashiers is expected to have the largest number of annual openings out of 765 occupations. Out of the top 25 occupations with largest annual openings, only three require a postsecondary vocational training or higher. The vast majority of these top 25 largest annual-opening occupations require only short-term or moderate-term on-the-job training.

Statewide Top 10 Occupations with Largest Annual Openings thru 2012
Cashiers - 7,400 jobs/yr
Retail Salespersons - 6,100 jobs/yr
Waiters and Waitresses - 4,600 jobs/yr
Fast Food Prep & Serving - 4,500 jobs/yr
Registered Nurses - 3,600 jobs/yr
Hand Laborers - 3,200 jobs/yr
Office Clerks - 2,800 jobs/yr
Operation Managers - 2,500 jobs/yr
Truck Drivers - 2,200 jobs/yr
Customer Service Reps - 2,100 jobs/yr

Facts got your tongue, Vic ???

What state am I, Vic?

Do you have any clue?

Do you need more help?

I repeat:

We are moving forward but with great difficulty. When manufacturing jobs that pay $15-$20/hr plus bennies are replaced with Wally jobs that pay $7.68/hr with no bennies its hard to make ends meet.

I'm sorry that many persons on this thread lack empathy and understanding of this personal strife, characterize them as a matter of 'personal resonsibility' and resort to tired, mistaken stereotypes

Obviously not my state.

And what's my post count got to do with all your emotionalism here?

And your emotionalism, rhetoric, and flat out lies aside, your argument is clear: that only "Real Americans" should be allowed to have "American jobs." You hide it in pro-unionist/anti-corporation talk but really that's all BS, now isn't it? You cry about the fate of the poor, but that's BS. You scream about a lack of empathy, but what about those poor people in developing countries that now have work and food on their tables (oh, that's right, somehow they're being exploited even though the Chinese are being homes and cars like crazy).
Etc etc

BTW, your facts are bullsh!t to anyone with a economics background. Of course, those positions will have the largest number of openings. They also have the highest amount of turnover. And no, I'm not gonna read through all the data to find your state. I'm too busy posting to waste my time on a hotheaded troll who can't even see how one-sided his argument is.