mATX or mini-ITX H270/B250 motherboard?

[limsandy83]

Hello guys, I am set to buy a new HTPC soon and I already have my mind set on Intel's latest Kabylake G4560 or G4600. And I am also most probably going to buy this new casing Coolermaster Masterbox Lite 3. As a HTPC, I need a small motherboard in mATX or mini-ITX form factor. I don't plan to overclock my CPU, so I'm thinking to save some money, I should get H270 or B250 chipset. I would also like a motherboard that support at least DDR4-3200 and 1 NVMe SSD (looking at the Samsung 960 EVO)

Based on these information, which specific motherboard brand/model would you recommend to me? Thanks in advance, everyone!

 

[VirtualLarry]

H and B boards don't support memory overclocking (well, any sort of overclocking). So, if you want higher than DDR4-2400, you'll have to spring for a more expensive Z270 board.

 

[whm1974]

For G4560 or G4600 the B250 chipset will be fine.

 

[Bouowmx]

Summary of chipsets for Intel LGA 1151: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#LGA_1151

Any chipset works fine for your needs, except maybe H110, with DMI and PCI Express 2.0.

Form factor depends on number of expansion slots you need. If you need zero, there is ASRock DeskMini 110, even smaller than ITX. Although I earlier mentioned H110 may not be suitable, ASRock H110M-STX directly connects SSD to CPU.

 

[limsandy83]

I guess I could compromise for slower memory speed. I'm only using it as a HTPC anyways. Larry, I remember you plan to build a PC based on the new G4560 or G4600 CPUs. What's your rig like?

• Do I need 16GB memory or is 8GB enough to run Windows 10?
• The onboard HD 610/630 graphic is enough for video playback, right?
• Stock Intel cooler is good enough for me, right?

Anyway, I'm starting to look at these cheap Asrock and Gigabyte motherboards that are just starting to become available. Are there extra features that I should look for?

 

[limsandy83]

Summary of chipsets for Intel LGA 1151: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#LGA_1151

Any chipset works fine for your needs, except maybe H110, with DMI and PCI Express 2.0.

Form factor depends on number of expansion slots you need. If you need zero, there is ASRock DeskMini 110, even smaller than ITX. Although I earlier mentioned H110 may not be suitable, ASRock H110M-STX directly connects SSD to CPU.

You know..... I would jump all over Asrock's Deskmini series if they update it with newer H270/B250 chipset.

 

[Bouowmx]

Windows 10 64-bit uses about 1-2 GB memory. 8 GB is plenty for media playback.

One of the selling points of Kaby Lake GPU is the updates to video decoding: 3840×2160 H.264 (MPEG-4 AVC), H.265 (HEVC), and VP9 (YouTube) (and likely some restriction on profile, frame rate, and pixel format that I do not recall). If you plan to use only integrated GPU, note that HD Graphics 630 in Pentium G4600 has double the shaders of HD Graphics 610 in Pentium G4560, for games or compute.

Intel box cooler is adequate. Anandtech article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10500/stock-cooler-roundup-intel-amd-vs-evo-212

 

[limsandy83]

Now I'm confused. After reading numerous articles, I might end up buying Intel's i3 Kabylake NUC, released later this month, as my HTPC.

What do you guys think?

 

[cleverhandle]

I agree that 8GB of RAM should be plenty for a dedicated HTPC. Presumably it's not going to be running more than one or two applications at a time. Save the ~$50 and go with 8GB.

I would choose the H270 over the B250. In terms of specs and price, they're going to be quite similar (assuming a basic H board and not a fancied-up gaming model). But H chipset boards will tend to provide more BIOS options, temp control, maybe better audio chipsets, etc. You may not end up using every option, but it's nice to have them available considering how close the prices will be. The selling point for B/Q chipsets is vPro, which provides various management and security options that aren't generally relevant outside of a large, professionally managed enterprise environment.

Don't know enough about the NUC to comment...

 

[Termie]

Do you need 4K output at 60Hz? If so, get the NUC. While Kaby Lake is supposed to support 4K/60Hz across the board, so far all B250/H270 motherboard manufacturers I've checked are listing their HDMI outputs as 1.4, which doesn't cut it. Intel's Kaby Lake NUC does in fact have HDMI 2.0.

 

[limsandy83]

Do you need 4K output at 60Hz? If so, get the NUC. While Kaby Lake is supposed to support 4K/60Hz across the board, so far all B250/H270 motherboard manufacturers I've checked are listing their HDMI outputs as 1.4, which doesn't cut it. Intel's Kaby Lake NUC does in fact have HDMI 2.0.

My TV does support 4K resolution, but I rarely watch 4K movies anyway. I watch full HD at most, but my TV does 4K upscaling. I just don't know if it does it automatically everytime or have to be switched on manually. But 4K or not is not a deal breaker for me.

I'm considering whether NUC or building my own rig will give me the best performance/value per dollar and whether I really need the expansion/upgradability. To be honest, I don't see myself upgrading this HTPC for the next 3 years. But Kabylake NUC starts with the i3, probably costing $499 without memory. Building my own rig would probably cost the same? Minus the HDMI 2.0 but I could upgrade later on.

 

[Termie]

The Core i3 NUC is about $280. Roughly speaking, if you go with low-end MicroATX components instead, you can get twice as much computing power at the same price (using the Core i3-7100). Memory, SSD, and OS costs are constant. So the performance per dollar winner is clear.

But these aren't remotely the same types of systems. A big mATX box sitting next to a 4K TV does not give the same impression aesthetically as a NUC. And if you're really just using it for home theater, you don't need the expandability or extra performance of an mATX system. Another consideration: the NUC has built-in WiFi.

 

[limsandy83]

I have been considering getting the NUC instead, and I'm also looking at other options: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167134

The only disadvantage is it doesn't support Kabylake CPUs. But this updated machine has embedded i3-7100U processor: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167148

 

[Termie]

Be careful - those are two different classes of SFF systems. The Cubi 2 Plus uses desktop CPUs and the STX format. The Cubi 2 is simply a NUC clone, and uses laptop CPUs. While the Cubi 2 Plus is interesting for fans of STX, the Cubi 2 isn't all that compelling. It's more expensive than the Intel i3 NUC will be, and has a very strange slot layout: it uses M.2 for WiFi and the defunct mSATA standard for SSDs. I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[limsandy83]

Yes, the Cubi 2 Plus accepts standard desktop Skylake CPU but uses DDR4 260-pin notebook memory.

I wish it were compatible with G4560/G4600.Oh well, maybe MSI will release Cubi 3 Plus soon?

 

[Bouowmx]

Hm, my earlier mention of ASRock DeskMini 110, STX form factor accepting Intel LGA CPUs, seems to be forgotten

 

[Termie]

You'll be able to build your own STX PC with the G4560 within a month or so. That will become the new must-have combo for SFF fans. You have to be patient though. The CPU isn't even available yet, nor are any STX boards that would support it.

 

[Bouowmx]

I got a ASRock H110M-STX to work with Intel Core i7-7700: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...support-new-processors.2497069/#post-38688864
So that's at least one STX motherboard that supports Kaby Lake.

 

[Termie]

I got a ASRock H110M-STX to work with Intel Core i7-7700: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...support-new-processors.2497069/#post-38688864
So that's at least one STX motherboard that supports Kaby Lake.

That's good news, although you're always taking a chance with motherboards released prior to the CPU. New firmware only became available in December, so old boxes sitting on the shelf could cause users a lot of frustration.