Math is racist

[Juiblex]

Is math education racist? Debate rages over changes to how US teaches the subject (msn.com)

Ebri, a math teacher and tech specialist for Duval County Schools in Florida, is using new techniques designed to promote equity. If kids of color, girls and low-income students engage, they'll be more likely to pursue high-level math classes, the argument goes. That can open doors to competitive colleges and lucrative careers.

White males need not apply? So, I guess, Math is racist...

Isn't this also saying that other people outside of white males just don't have as much IQ? So they need to do things like math as a group event (more minds means more right answers) rather than an individual skill? What a way to achieve in the world, make everything group-think... And expect the same careers as those that can do it on their own due to natural IQ..? I suppose this is the communist way. I think I'm just going to become disabled. I'd have the same quality of life if I identify as a gay black woman... (I can do that right, as a white male?)

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Not math, no.... You? Yeah sounds like it.

 

[HomerJS]

Your title makes a declarative statement. The OP asks a question. Make up your mind.

I agree with the above.

 

[Zorba]

Absolutely nothing wrong with trying to teach in ways non-white males may engage with more. Especially in schools that have basically no white kids.

I completely disagree with getting rid of gifted and advanced tracks, though. You just have to make sure those programs aren't hurting the regular and remedial classes. When I was a kid it was the extreme Christian right that wanted to kill gifted programs, now it appears to be the extremely far left. I don't think many districts have actually gotten rid of them, though, except due to budget cuts.

 

[K1052]

Racial inequities impacting outcomes? Certainly never in America! How could one suggest such a thing?

 

[Roger Wilco]

Kids who aren't white tend to receive a shitty education.

So it probably would be pretty impactful if we could focus on giving non-white people a non-shitty education.

 

[K1052]

I completely disagree with getting rid of gifted and advanced tracks, though. You just have to make sure those programs aren't hurting the regular and remedial classes.

I mean that's largely a question of how you structure things right? Lots of stuff at school remains the same out of inertia without real analysis of if a structure is hurting some kids but helping others and adjusting it without parents going insane simply because you changed something they experienced.

 

[Zorba]

I mean that's largely a question of how you structure things right? Lots of stuff at school remains the same out of inertia without real analysis of if a structure is hurting some kids but helping others and adjusting it without parents going insane simply because you changed something they experienced.

I was bored shitless in school, even with gifted programs. I always got stuck in normal math classes because I didn't do homework, didn't matter that I always got the highest grades on tests. Putting advanced kids in non-advanced classes is a massive disservice to those kids.

I know in some districts "gifted" is another word for "white," but that is a different problem than having actual advanced classes.

I agree that parents always want things done the way it was when they were kids, and that isn't good. I've looked into a lot of the new methods of teaching math in elementary and I think they make a lot of sense, even though it'll be wasted on the kids that just get math.

 

[cytg111]

Is math education racist? Debate rages over changes to how US teaches the subject (msn.com)



White males need not apply? So, I guess, Math is racist...

Isn't this also saying that other people outside of white males just don't have as much IQ? So they need to do things like math as a group event (more minds means more right answers) rather than an individual skill? What a way to achieve in the world, make everything group-think... And expect the same careers as those that can do it on their own due to natural IQ..? I suppose this is the communist way. I think I'm just going to become disabled. I'd have the same quality of life if I identify as a gay black woman... (I can do that right, as a white male?)

Yes. Please do that. Wear a sign too. Go play in traffic.

 

[fskimospy]

Is math education racist? Debate rages over changes to how US teaches the subject (msn.com)



White males need not apply? So, I guess, Math is racist...

Isn't this also saying that other people outside of white males just don't have as much IQ? So they need to do things like math as a group event (more minds means more right answers) rather than an individual skill? What a way to achieve in the world, make everything group-think... And expect the same careers as those that can do it on their own due to natural IQ..? I suppose this is the communist way. I think I'm just going to become disabled. I'd have the same quality of life if I identify as a gay black woman... (I can do that right, as a white male?)

OP makes a false statement. The article is discussing if the methods of TEACHING math are racist, it does not say math is racist. Did you read your own article?

I have no idea if the methods are racist or not, but you're not doing your position any help by lying about it.

 

[HomerJS]

The OP is worried about the fragile oppressed white male ego.

I'm more concerned about kids getting educated. Sometimes it takes out of the box thinking.

 

[pmv]

OP makes a false statement. The article is discussing if the methods of TEACHING math are racist, it does not say math is racist. Did you read your own article?

I have no idea if the methods are racist or not, but you're not doing your position any help by lying about it.

As disingenuous as the OP was, I think the article itself contributed, by having that as a question in the title. That seems a bit click-baity to me.

Seems like the question is simply whether maths (like any subject) can be taught in ways that are less exclusionary for certain groups.

Seems to me like a very complicated issue, because if you make a subject more accessible for one group you might be making it less so for another - are there any 'neutral' ways to teach a subject?

And it relates to the whole awkward question of 'streaming', which is something I can never make up my mind about. That's a huge topic, and I think more complicated than people acknowledge.

 

[mindless1]

This has always been around for the kids that ride the short bus. Now it's predetermining low achievement by setting the bar lower. You can't possibly educate as quickly (as much) using this method. EXCEPT, let's indoctrinate them about SJW style discrimination topics simultaneously, because that's so so on-topic for a math class.

Get them to engage? Sure that's a good idea, everyone should have at least basic math skills... then refuse to use them, because their phone can do that.

Ultimately what this is, is a racist SJW example of what is going wrong with society. Math (teaching methods) are not racist but this teacher wants to inject racism as a topic for conversation, with math as the excuse to get there. She should consider teaching a more appropriate class instead of math. lol, wait, she is.

 

[SmCaudata]

Is math education racist? Debate rages over changes to how US teaches the subject (msn.com)



White males need not apply? So, I guess, Math is racist...

Isn't this also saying that other people outside of white males just don't have as much IQ? So they need to do things like math as a group event (more minds means more right answers) rather than an individual skill? What a way to achieve in the world, make everything group-think... And expect the same careers as those that can do it on their own due to natural IQ..? I suppose this is the communist way. I think I'm just going to become disabled. I'd have the same quality of life if I identify as a gay black woman... (I can do that right, as a white male?)

Read and learn.

How our education system undermines gender equity | Brookings

Joseph Cimpian explains the large-scale problems girls and women face in America's education system, and why policy alone can't fix them.

www.brookings.edu

Society at large, including teachers, have a pre conceived notion that males (mostly white and Asian) are better at math than others. This preconception affects performance And participation.

Also, girls and minorities do not go into fields where they perceive unequal treatment. Anything that breaks down these stereotypes is good for society as it will ensure that the best and brightest go into these fields, not just the best and brightest white men.

Your white fragility is astounding.

 

[fskimospy]

As disingenuous as the OP was, I think the article itself contributed, by having that as a question in the title. That seems a bit click-baity to me.

Seems like the question is simply whether maths (like any subject) can be taught in ways that are less exclusionary for certain groups.

Seems to me like a very complicated issue, because if you make a subject more accessible for one group you might be making it less so for another - are there any 'neutral' ways to teach a subject?

And it relates to the whole awkward question of 'streaming', which is something I can never make up my mind about. That's a huge topic, and I think more complicated than people acknowledge.

The title says 'is math EDUCATION racist', which is the teaching of math. That being said, the research definitely shows pedagogy can and often does cater to white and asian students and there likely are ways we can decrease that bias. I doubt it will make a large difference, but if you look at the state of education research almost no interventions make huge differences so you take the small ones where you can get them.

I have no idea if the research supports this particular teachers' methods but even if it doesn't these methods might work for her as individual schools and classes have their own character. This is in fact the reason why one of my more conservative positions is that we should reverse the trend of state and federal 'accountability' measures and return schools to local control as much as possible.

 

[desy]

All I know is I want buildings to stand and airplanes to fly and medicine to work and that takes math, so whatever grinder it takes to separate those who can to who can't, IDC the colors or sexual preference or age.

 

[mindless1]

Society at large, including teachers, have a pre conceived notion that males (mostly white and Asian) are better at math than others. This preconception affects performance And participation.

Also, girls and minorities do not go into fields where they perceive unequal treatment. Anything that breaks down these stereotypes is good for society as it will ensure that the best and brightest go into these fields, not just the best and brightest white men.

No. The "best and brightest" don't pay attention to stereotypes, rather decide based on their own abilities and interests. This is for the low IQ kids and should include the low IQ white males too.

 

[pmv]

The title says 'is math EDUCATION racist', which is the teaching of math. That being said, the research definitely shows pedagogy can and often does cater to white and asian students and there likely are ways we can decrease that bias. I doubt it will make a large difference, but if you look at the state of education research almost no interventions make huge differences so you take the small ones where you can get them.

Yes, but asking whether the form of math education is such that it engages some groups more than others, is not quite the same thing as asking if it's "racist". Seems unnecessarily provocative to use that particular word. Though maybe it's about using short words in headlines, otherwise "racially biased" might have been a better term.

 

[MrSquished]

I don't think math is racist, but I do know the majority of the Republican party is.

 

[fskimospy]

No. The "best and brightest" don't pay attention to stereotypes, rather decide based on their own abilities and interests. This is for the low IQ kids and should include the low IQ white males too.

Every single person in society is affected by stereotypes, without exception. That means you and me too.

 

[pmv]

I mean, my experience is having started school at the precise moment that the system abandoned streaming, scrapping the old "grammar school"/"secondary modern" distinction (that historically was all about keeping the working-classes in their place) and introducing "mixed ability" comprehensives.

Consequently I went to an inner-city comp that had, till that year, been a "secondary modern" for less-academically-succesful students. And, frankly, it was a craphole, it was just 5 years of being repeatedly beaten up, to the point of twice being hospitalised with concussion, and having to regularly "bunk off" school in order to find somewhere quiet enough to do any studying, as opposed to classrooms that were usually in complete chaos, with my fellow students throwing chairs and tables around or setting fire to themselves, and the teachers breaking down in tears. Nobody learned anything in that place, in maths or any other subject, the academic standards were low-to-non-existent.

I don't really know what I think of it all. I don't think dividing children up by "ability" at the age of 11, as the old system did, was a good idea, as it really just amounted to a kind of filtering by class-background.

But when they don't have streaming it becomes a matter of who has the money to move to areas with "good schools" or who can pretend to be religious in order to get into the supposed "Christian" schools that are really just selective schools by another name. Then you also have Islamic schools (state funded here) where there are constant rumors of various extremist ideologies being promoted (I have absolutely no idea if those rumors are true, mind you, as there's plenty of incentives for certain people to spread false stories).

Now the whole system is being slowly privatised-by-stealth, with the equivalent of Russian oligarchs being facilitated in building little private-empires of "academies" (at tax-payer's expense) with no democratic control. (I guess like "charter schools" over there). Most of them pay themselves huge salaries, and they tend to expand their empires with no regard for whether an area actually needs more school places or not.

The whole topic of education baffles me, I don't know what the answers are.

 

[pmv]

One thing that makes one cynical, is that the push to end 'streaming' in state schools, mostly came from politicians who themselves had gone to elite, expensive, private schools, and who often sent their own children to such schools. The idea seemed to be that 'academically able but poor children must share schools with the damaged and disruptive children, in the interests of fairness...but the children of the wealthy will continue to opt out and stay in their elite ghetto'.

 

[cytg111]

OMG RACISM VS WHITES AGAIN

I AM SO FUCKING TRIGGERED


OOOOOOOOOOOBAAAAAAAAMAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaarrrghhhhhhhhhhh

 

[shortylickens]

Math is not racist. Anyone who believes that lacks critical thinking skills.
America is racist. And people who get shit on tend to do poorly in school.

Finding a smarter way to teach math benefits everyone, and thats not racist in and of itself. But lets be honest, most of the kids going on to success have attended high quality primary schools and get loads of other assistance both of which are directly related to money.

 

[fskimospy]

I mean, my experience is having started school at the precise moment that the system abandoned streaming, scrapping the old "grammar school"/"secondary modern" distinction (that historically was all about keeping the working-classes in their place) and introducing "mixed ability" comprehensives.

Consequently I went to an inner-city comp that had, till that year, been a "secondary modern" for less-academically-succesful students. And, frankly, it was a craphole, it was just 5 years of being repeatedly beaten up, to the point of twice being hospitalised with concussion, and having to regularly "bunk off" school in order to find somewhere quiet enough to do any studying, as opposed to classrooms that were usually in complete chaos, with my fellow students throwing chairs and tables around or setting fire to themselves, and the teachers breaking down in tears. Nobody learned anything in that place, in maths or any other subject, the academic standards were low-to-non-existent.

I don't really know what I think of it all. I don't think dividing children up by "ability" at the age of 11, as the old system did, was a good idea, as it really just amounted to a kind of filtering by class-background.

But when they don't have streaming it becomes a matter of who has the money to move to areas with "good schools" or who can pretend to be religious in order to get into the supposed "Christian" schools that are really just selective schools by another name. Then you also have Islamic schools (state funded here) where there are constant rumors of various extremist ideologies being promoted (I have absolutely no idea if those rumors are true, mind you, as there's plenty of incentives for certain people to spread false stories).

Now the whole system is being slowly privatised-by-stealth, with the equivalent of Russian oligarchs being facilitated in building little private-empires of "academies" (at tax-payer's expense) with no democratic control. (I guess like "charter schools" over there). Most of them pay themselves huge salaries, and they tend to expand their empires with no regard for whether an area actually needs more school places or not.

The whole topic of education baffles me, I don't know what the answers are.

Nobody does, it's an incredibly hard problem!

At its core though the issues are pretty simple:

1) Local control of education yields the best results, but the populations that benefit most from public education are too poor to fund it. That means relying on state and federal funding.

2) State and federal taxpayers, not unreasonably, want to know where their money is going and have a say over how it is spent.

So, you end up with schools that are locally controlled but have no money, or schools with more money that can no longer tailor their curriculum and pedagogy to the needs of their community. The problem is that both sides of this issue have valid points and so it's almost impossible to resolve.