Massive voter fraud discovered in North Carolina

[emperus]

Let's dig a little closer into this.

In NC in the 2012 election 4,499,039 People Voted

Let's look at the worst case scenario which is probably definitely fraud.

If you assume the 765 voters with an exact match of first and last name, DOB and last four digits of SSN that voted in 2 states were actually fraud and were not supposed to vote in NC. Then the percentage of fraudulent votes cast in the 2012 election was .017% of all the votes cast.

Let's actually just assume all the 35,750 voters with the same first and last name and DOB that were registered in N.C. and another state and voted in both states in the 2012 general election were all fraudulent voters and shouldn't have voted in NC. Then the percentage of fraudulent votes cast in the 2012 election was 0.79% of all the votes cast.

Those assumptions are taking the worst case of both and assuming all were fraudulent votes, not errors and all the votes shouldn't have been cast in NC.

 

[Subyman]

Every time I go up to vote they have my grandma and father listed next to my name even though both have passed away. Every time I tell them they have passed away, yet there they are. Voter registration is a joke.

 

[emperus]

Every time I go up to vote they have my grandma and father listed next to my name even though both have passed away. Every time I tell them they have passed away, yet there they are. Voter registration is a joke.

I agree. I see my brother's name on the roll. He isn't even a citizen and doesn't vote.

That being said, I just think that method is high risk low reward. There are probably many Lower risk Higher reward methods to hijack an election.

 

[mrjminer]

Let's dig a little closer into this.

In NC in the 2012 election 4,499,039 People Voted

Let's look at the worst case scenario which is probably definitely fraud.

If you assume the 765 voters with an exact match of first and last name, DOB and last four digits of SSN that voted in 2 states were actually fraud and were not supposed to vote in NC. Then the percentage of fraudulent votes cast in the 2012 election was .017% of all the votes cast.

Let's actually just assume all the 35,750 voters with the same first and last name and DOB that were registered in N.C. and another state and voted in both states in the 2012 general election were all fraudulent voters and shouldn't have voted in NC. Then the percentage of fraudulent votes cast in the 2012 election was 0.79% of all the votes cast.

Those assumptions are taking the worst case of both and assuming all were fraudulent votes, not errors and all the votes shouldn't have been cast in NC.

Voting information and statistics effect an unimaginable amount of things within our society. So, having accurate results is crucial to the function of society as a whole. Obviously, the presidential election wouldn't have been swayed here. However, what about local elections? What about law/ordinance votes? I've never checked, so I guess those types of elections could have more restrictions, but I'm going to go with my gut and guess that they are less heavily regulated/scrutinized. Some elections / other polls can get very close.

Often, statistics of votes are used to secure more votes through social expectation / groupthink / whether people bother going to the polls, or other laws can be passed through illegal votes that set the framework for currently-less-accepted laws that people can be conditioned to accept over time. Illegal voting can also sway whether the media will cover a particular topic. Overall, you have to take into account the breadth of the effect voter fraud can have even if those particular votes didn't themselves sway a single election.

If it does turn out to be the likely outcome of being fraudulent votes, I think that your .79% of actual votes figure translates into a far higher percentage of votes that were actually influenced by the fraud (not like 80% or something, maybe 1.5% or something comparable to the number of votes that were illegal, who knows).

I think that you should be more concerned. Even if the effects aren't immediate, I really don't think you want to be in a society that's stagnated / slowly being manipulated into the shape of the parties behind illegal voting. In other words, think of what the 50-100 year end-game is for the mastermind behind the subtle and meticulous manipulation that is thought of by many as a small enough problem to ignore.

 

[BUnit1701]

I guess you can fake the account number too.

BTW - You didn't address the head of the Republicans in PA who admitted why they wanted photo voter ID

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

You have to be shitting us. You think we need to trot someone from the utility company out to each election to verify account numbers?

 

[Pens1566]

STFU with your BS.

Why do you hate free speech and the constitution???

 

[Incorruptible]

Why do you hate free speech and the constitution???

I don't. You clearly don't believe in it since you always want to shut me down.

 

[emperus]

Voting information and statistics effect an unimaginable amount of things within our society. So, having accurate results is crucial to the function of society as a whole. Obviously, the presidential election wouldn't have been swayed here. However, what about local elections? What about law/ordinance votes? I've never checked, so I guess those types of elections could have more restrictions, but I'm going to go with my gut and guess that they are less heavily regulated/scrutinized. Some elections can get very close.

Often, statistics of votes are used to secure more votes through social expectation / groupthink, or other laws can be passed through illegal votes that set the framework for currently-less-accepted laws that people can be conditioned to accept over time. Illegal voting can also sway whether the media will cover a particular topic. Overall, you have to take into account the breadth of the effect voter fraud can have even if those particular votes didn't themselves sway a single election.

I would like to see the voting stats for NC's election commission. Look, right now we don't know how many of these "fraudulent" votes are system errors vs. fraud. And if we are talking about system (election system) errors. Does the system create other types of errors, i.e ballots lost by workers, ballots tabulated incorrectly, ballots lost in the mail? And at what rate. I don't think they designed the voting system to be perfect, but have some acceptable rates of "error".

I agree with most of what you said, and I am for national voting regulations which may include voter id. I just think it's not an issue I'd prioritize over disenfranchising more voters like Republicans are trying to do now. As if, I want to stop a faucet leaking so I smash it with a sledgehammer.

 

[Pens1566]

Are you sure about that? SOP for these sort of things involve a party operative voting under someone else's name. Or do you honestly believe 35,000+ people traveled to vote in both places?

Assuming these were all in person votes and not absentee ballots (which we don't know yet) John Smith walking in with a valid photo ID that says John Smith isn't going to prevent him from voting as John Smith.

And where did I, or anyone for that matter, say that all 35000 people have traveled and voted both places? What we have suggested is that, aligning with previous investigations of similar situations, it could be a clerical error related to individuals that have moved. Try and keep up.

 

[Pens1566]

I don't. You clearly don't believe in it since you always want to shut me down.

I believe in informed discussion. Which is why I think you should be quiet for your own benefit. I fully support your right to open your mouth, or keyboard, and make an idiot of yourself. However, free speech doesn't apply on this forum so I do believe you and your ilk should be limited in the amount of garbage posts you spew and pollute it with.

 

[mrjminer]

I would like to see the voting stats for NC's election commission. Look, right now we don't know how many of these "fraudulent" votes are system errors vs. fraud. And if we are talking about system (election system) errors. Does the system create other types of errors, i.e ballots lost by workers, ballots tabulated incorrectly, ballots lost in the mail? And at what rate. I don't think they designed the voting system to be perfect, but have some acceptable rates of "error".

I agree with most of what you said, and I am for national voting regulations which may include voter id. I just think it's not an issue I'd prioritize over disenfranchising more voters like Republicans are trying to do now. As if, I want to stop a faucet leaking so I smash it with a sledgehammer.

That's why I said in a previous post that someone would have to be brain-dead to disagree with me on 2 of the 3 points, but not on how they go about it

 

[boomerang]

LOL!

How can we harness the spin from the loons that painted themselves into the "no such thing as voter fraud!!!!!" dunce corner?

It's so entertaining that I almost feel guilty for getting it all for free. Given enough time, they can come up with a bizarro world explanation for virtually anything that makes perfect sense to only them.

 

[HomerJS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

 

[Incorruptible]

I believe in informed discussion. Which is why I think you should be quiet for your own benefit. I fully support your right to open your mouth, or keyboard, and make an idiot of yourself. However, free speech doesn't apply on this forum so I do believe you and your ilk should be limited in the amount of garbage posts you spew and pollute it with.

So because I don't agree with your BS I am wrong?

 

[Pens1566]

So because I don't agree with your BS I am wrong?

How you got that from what I posted I'll never understand.

Good luck to you.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

It's so entertaining that I almost feel guilty for getting it all for free. Given enough time, they can come up with a bizarro world explanation for virtually anything that makes perfect sense to only them.

So how much fun is it exactly to run around hunting for facts that fit your conclusions?

 

[werepossum]

"765 voters with an exact match of first and last name, DOB and last four digits of SSN were registered in N.C. and another state and voted in N.C. and the other state in the 2012 general election."

Read much? Those are the ones I'm most interested in. Same names? Sure...DOB? Sure... Add the last four of the SSN plus those other two and it becomes something bit more suspicious don't you think? Considering there are three states connected to NC and one (GA) not too far through SC, these duplicate votes could be real, and they should be prosecuted if so.

If you are suggesting that these 700+ are not suspect or do constitute a problem then I'm at a loss to understand your motivations.

If you read his posts it's not difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that all his brain cells are fully occupied just breathing.

And that's why they need to investigate each one. Based on past reviews, this is often due to a clerical error. For example, John Paul Smith and John Adam Smith are both registered in the same precinct, and are listed next to each other on the voter rolls. "Paul" moves to another state. "Adam" votes normally, but the poll worker marks the wrong name, i.e., checks off the wrong John Smith. "Paul" votes in his new state. Now a computer cross check finds John Paul Smith voted twice in two different states, but that John Adam Smith didn't vote at all. It's a clerical error.

That actually sounds plausible. They should still all be investigated though. The non-voting matches are probably people who moved. Who actually ever goes to their polling precinct to report moving away?

Frankly at my polling place I can't see anyone ever making that mistake as they scrutinize my license, my face, and my signature, with a piece of paper covering the names below mine. Generally they treat me like Lex Luther, a behavior of which I mightily approve.

There is no problem, and no possible solution to the problem if it existed, therefor this must be a racist plot to stop minority's from voting.

I think we should go to the honer system and set up elections the same way they do votes on reality tv shows. You simply call or text in your vote. Heck, we could do the whole presentational election as a reality tv show. It would allow us to focus on the really important aspects of being president. Who's best at mouthing a platitude, who's the fastest back peddler, and perhaps the most critical aspect of being president, who has the best hair.

LOL In states with same day no-ID registration we're pretty much already there. As for the reality TV show- we're pretty much already there too.

 

[Fern]

His example laid out EXACTLY how this could happen even with matching SSNs. 2 John Smiths are listed next to each other in the voter roll book. One has moved away, call him John Adam Smith, and voted in his new location only. John Steven Smith is still living in that location, votes and it is incorrectly recorded next to John Adam Smith's entry in the roll book. Adam has now "voted" twice, and Steven not at all. Of course the DOB and SSN will line up.

How does one prove that it was clerical error?

Fern

 

[Pens1566]

How does one prove that it was clerical error?

Fern

As I'm not one of the folks investigating this, I can't say for sure. Whichever route they take, I'm sure it will be easier than disproving the same person was able to vote in person in two different states for the same election.

 

[Fern]

Every time I go up to vote they have my grandma and father listed next to my name even though both have passed away. Every time I tell them they have passed away, yet there they are. Voter registration is a joke.

My wife is here on a Greencard.

They have her as a registered voter. We've tried to correct it for about 18 years now to no avail. Just last month she was, once again, called up for jury duty because she is still listed as a registered voter.
----------

The voter rolls in this country are in horrible shape. In a previous thread on this topic I linked to audits done on voter rolls as required by federal law. The error rate was quite high, not .01% but much higher with thousands o0f mistakes. In every case the county said they weren't going to fix it.

People can argue about the difficulty of getting ID, whether absentee ballots are a problem etc, but I don't see how anybody can argue that the voter rolls shouldn't be fixed.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Considering there are three states connected to NC and one (GA) not too far through SC, these duplicate votes could be real, and they should be prosecuted if so.

North Carolina and Georgia do have a border. It's on the far Southwestern side of NC.

I.e., we have borders with 4 states.

Fern

 

[Fern]

As I'm not one of the folks investigating this, I can't say for sure. Whichever route they take, I'm sure it will be easier than disproving the same person was able to vote in person in two different states for the same election.

My real point would be given the state of our election system nothing can be proven or disproven.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

How does one prove that it was clerical error?

Fern

That's the beauty of the system - you can never prove or disprove it.

You could however examine the voter rolls to see if it is reasonably possible. While it is highly unlikely that John Adam Smith and John Steven Smith vote in the same location, it isn't impossible. I know of three or four different and unrelated Richard K. M***ning's living in a town of about 21,000 people, so it's entirely possible that two of them vote in the same precinct. One could examine the voter rolls in the two precincts, see how likely such an error would be, even ask those on either side if they voted. If the responses preclude such an error it's voter fraud. (Although not necessarily John Adam Smith's, as anyone knowing he moved away could present themselves as John Adam Smith and vote in that precinct as long as ID is not required.)

 

[werepossum]

My wife is here on a Greencard.

They have her as a registered voter. We've tried to correct it for about 18 years now to no avail. Just last month she was, once again, called up for jury duty because she is still listed as a registered voter.
----------

The voter rolls in this country are in horrible shape. In a previous thread on this topic I linked to audits done on voter rolls as required by federal law. The error rate was quite high, not .01% but much higher with thousands o0f mistakes. In every case the county said they weren't going to fix it.

People can argue about the difficulty of getting ID, whether absentee ballots are a problem etc, but I don't see how anybody can argue that the voter rolls shouldn't be fixed.

Fern

That is not an accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5DmDtWr0WE
You don't need papers to vote.

 

[fskimospy]

My wife is here on a Greencard.

They have her as a registered voter. We've tried to correct it for about 18 years now to no avail. Just last month she was, once again, called up for jury duty because she is still listed as a registered voter.
----------

The voter rolls in this country are in horrible shape. In a previous thread on this topic I linked to audits done on voter rolls as required by federal law. The error rate was quite high, not .01% but much higher with thousands o0f mistakes. In every case the county said they weren't going to fix it.

People can argue about the difficulty of getting ID, whether absentee ballots are a problem etc, but I don't see how anybody can argue that the voter rolls shouldn't be fixed.

Fern

How do you know she was called up for jury duty due to her status as a registered voter? They pull jury lists from a lot of different sources including voter rolls, drivers license/state ID card rolls, etc, etc.