Massive voter fraud discovered in North Carolina

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Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
I really enjoy watching the leftists wrack their brains coming up with strawman rationalizations for why what is happening, isn't happening. It's pure entertainment.
I really enjoy watching wing-nut tools ignore all facts and data that contradict their emotionally-fueled faith. It's like trying to show a small child why Santa Claus defies the laws of physics, or a candy bar before dinner is a bad idea. They are immune to reason.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
[/LIST]
While I believe the amount of in-person fraud to be small, we don't have mechanism to prove that. If I choose not to vote and and someone else pretends to be me and votes at the polls (since they don't need to show ID), there's nothing that will show that fraud occurred, and there's no way after the fact to determine what the level of such fraud was.
That's not quite true, though I agree that this is the most difficult form of in-person voting fraud to detect. Even that can sometimes be detected through signature matching or being recognized at the polls, but I agree both are minor risks.

That said, however, they are not zero risk which is why it is an unlikely scenario. In such cases of collusion or inside knowledge, it is easier and less risky to submit absentee ballots rather than voting in-person multiple times. This is really the single biggest hole in all the potential in-person fraud scenarios: one can evade any voter ID laws by using absentee ballots, reducing both effort and risk in the process. In-person voting fraud simply makes no sense because it is extremely inefficient.

Baloney, there is no proof of this, there are assertions of such a possibility, usually by leftists.
"Proof" is a loaded word since it can't be provided until after the fact. There is a substantial body of vetted evidence that disenfranchisement is absolutely the result, however, including evidence provided in multiple court cases. If you want the truth, it is available.


Aside from idiotic nonsense about "suppression cheerleaders" and other such drivel,
I certainly understand why you object to being portrayed that way, yet it is accurate. By advocating for these voter suppression laws, you are, in fact, a suppression cheerleader. I cannot judge your intent, and it may well be that you aren't intending to support voter suppression, but the result is the same.


I don't think there's much debate that there is much more potential for fraud with absentee ballots. I'm in favor of good controls around all forms of voting (absentee, in person, whatever, it doesn't matter).
Good, me too. I even favor reducing the possibility of in-person voter fraud ... if we can find ways to do so where the cost, both to taxpayers and potentially disenfranchised voters, are notably less than the benefits achieved. Given the miniscule incidence of in-person voter fraud, however, those costs will need to be trivial.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,212
9,006
136
Sorry... but with the matching last four in SSN I would tend to think there is more to it than something simply clerical.

His example laid out EXACTLY how this could happen even with matching SSNs. 2 John Smiths are listed next to each other in the voter roll book. One has moved away, call him John Adam Smith, and voted in his new location only. John Steven Smith is still living in that location, votes and it is incorrectly recorded next to John Adam Smith's entry in the roll book. Adam has now "voted" twice, and Steven not at all. Of course the DOB and SSN will line up.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Do you even know what a strawman argument is?
Yes. I take it you don't? Here, let me help using the comment in question:
"But ..... but... there is no voter fraud! Haven't you heard lots of idiots tell us that for years even though there is no real effective mechanism to actually determine if there is fraud going on or not? ;) OP must be racist, homophobic, sexist, genderist or whatever is currently most politically incorrect"
I bolded the straw man arguments, imaginary positions that opponents didn't actually take.

Does that help?
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
Here's a more balanced article about this study: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/04/02/3752992/nc-voter-audit-suggests-widespread.html

The next step is researching each of these potential frauds to determine whether there was actual fraud. As the article notes, in similar past studies the overwhelming majority were found to be clerical errors, different people with the same name, etc. I hope NC follows through with a thorough investigation and actually prosecutes those who did commit voting fraud (as opposed to Arizona, for example, where the Republican Attorney General blew plenty of smoke about how horrible their fraud was but couldn't be bothered to get off his butt and do anything).

I love the smell of straw men in the morning. For the umpteenth time, the accurate representation of the issues are:

  1. The level of in-person voting fraud is miniscule
  2. There are mechanisms to calculate the amount of in-person fraud and they confirm it is miniscule
  3. Preventing such in-person fraud by requiring current, state-issued, photo IDs will disenfranchise millions of eligible voters
  4. Other forms of voter fraud, e.g., absentee ballots, are far more serious and legitimate issues that the RNC suppression cheerleaders ignore because absentee ballots are critical to Republicans' success.
You seem to be quickly falling back into a habit of useless parroting of RNC talking points.

^^ This..
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
LOL!

How can we harness the spin from the loons that painted themselves into the "no such thing as voter fraud!!!!!" dunce corner?
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,212
9,006
136
LOL!

How can we harness the spin from the loons that painted themselves into the "no such thing as voter fraud!!!!!" dunce corner?

What is with all the ridiculous strawmen lately? Jesus you people are dumb.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
A 28 state crosscheck of voter rolls done through the Interstate Crosscheck system has turned up tens of thousands of fraudulent votes in North Carolina alone.

http://philberger.com/news/entry/ti...ed-alarming-evidence-of-voter-error-and-fraud


  • 765 voters with an exact match of first and last name, DOB and last four digits of SSN were registered in N.C. and another state and voted in N.C. and the other state in the 2012 general election.
  • 35,750 voters with the same first and last name and DOB were registered in N.C. and another state and voted in both states in the 2012 general election.
State elections officials seek tighter security

So, 101 million voters and tens of thousands in North Carolina alone. Just how widespread is voter fraud?

Massive Voter Fraud Discovered in North Carolina's 2012 Election

I need some independent investigations to verify your claims. Your source maybe as trustworthy as WMDs in Iraq.
 

mrjminer

Platinum Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,739
16
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A pretty clear-cut case of voter fraud with what they presented. I think the only other possible alternative would be something like two friends/relatives/hotline/job trainer voter registration people from different states telling each other what to fill in if someone doesn't have the correct information. A possible alternative, but not a very plausible one.

I think you'd have to be brain-dead to ever be opposed to some mechanism to ensure people only voted once, and brain-dead, but slightly less so, to oppose a mechanism to ensure that only people that should be allowed to vote (ie: non-illegal) could vote. Disagreement with how they do those things, though, is acceptable.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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Voter fraud occurs and liberals come in to defend them, not surprised at all. Voter fraud needs to be stopped.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,212
9,006
136
Voter fraud occurs and liberals come in to defend them, not surprised at all. Voter fraud needs to be stopped.

Moron posts OP and is defended by more morons. Incorruptible comes in to defend. Not surprised. Ignorance needs to be stopped.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,807
1,560
126
The GOP. Another shiny object to distract you. Jesus. I really wonder for our country.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Does this take into account people moving out of state and reregistering to vote? Should be lots of duplicate names showing up because of that.
Grandson Jimmy named for Grandpa James, Great Grandmother getting a namesake, all the Sr.s and Jr.s around.
They have names and addresses on these fraudulent voters, right! So let us see how many go to court.
 

himkhan

Senior member
Jul 13, 2013
665
370
136
Why can't the republicans accept they lose because they have gone full nutter far right fringe and they aren't nearly the majority party and not because of some invisible voter fraud. Accepting is the first step to recovery.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Looks like a lot of people moved without telling their elections office.
 

BUnit1701

Senior member
May 1, 2013
853
1
0
And requiring a picture ID wouldn't prevent it. Next.

Are you sure about that? SOP for these sort of things involve a party operative voting under someone else's name. Or do you honestly believe 35,000+ people traveled to vote in both places?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,503
50,659
136
Why can't the republicans accept they lose because they have gone full nutter far right fringe and they aren't nearly the majority party and not because of some invisible voter fraud. Accepting is the first step to recovery.

Conservatives tend to believe that their opinions are actually widely shared among the population at large, which makes them confused when voters don't vote the same way they do.

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/11/18/0956797613500796.abstract

When they lose elections they look for reasons for how/why this could have happened. Nefarious fraud usually is on the list. Failing that, tactically for them if the electorate doesn't want to vote for you and you don't want to change your policies, your best bet is to try and change the shape of the electorate. It's kind of a reverse election procedure where the people in power are trying to choose their voters instead of the voters choosing the people in power.