Marketing deception or am I just being cynical?

[TheDarkKnight]

The arrival of the latest IvyBridge CPUs has me anxiously researching what motherboard I should purchase with it. I know exactly which IvyBridge CPU I am going to buy. But after reading over some of the motherboard features on NewEgg I have a couple of questions I want to ask.

This motherboard:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128555

shows up as having 1 PCI Express 3.0 x 16 slot which is great for the future.

It goes on to say PCI Express 2.0 x 16 - 1 @x4

What does this mean exactly? Is it what it sounds like...a crippled PCIe 2.0 running at 25% bandwidth?

Are PCI Express slots limited to only running PCIe videocards? I know thats what the slot was exclusively designed for but maybe you can run other cards that are not graphics related?

And my last question relates to the capability of the Intel B75 chipset. Even if the motherboard has a PCIe 3.0 slot onboard does the Intel B75 chipset support PCIe 3.0 slots? From my research, it doesnt. But I could be wrong.

Thanks for all input.

 

[BrightCandle]

It goes on to say PCI Express 2.0 x 16 - 1 @x4

What does this mean exactly? Is it what it sounds like...a crippled PCIe 2.0 running at 25% bandwidth?

Correct, it only has 4 lanes actually wired to the slot but it will fit a 16x card. The 16x card would only be able to utilise 4 lanes, but they can all do this.

Are PCI Express slots limited to only running PCIe videocards? I know thats what the slot was exclusively designed for but maybe you can run other cards that are not graphics related?

No. If the card will physically fit in the slot then it will work, but as you have seen not necessarily at the bandwidth you might expect. Intel's Ivy Bridge only has 16x 3.0 PCI-E slots coming out of the CPU so if you need more than that it simply doesn't have them. What Intel and the board manufacturers are doing is providing more slots but with fewer lanes assigned incase you need the flexibility, which often only results in minor performance degradation.

And my last question relates to the capability of the Intel B75 chipset. Even if the motherboard has a PCIe 3.0 slot onboard does the Intel B75 chipset support PCIe 3.0 slots? From my research, it doesnt. But I could be wrong.

Thanks for all input.

It doesn't. It supports 8x PCI-E 2.0, the data from which is then shuffled into the CPU over the DMI 2.0 bus.

If you want more than 16 lanes of PCI-E 3.0 (assuming you have a genuine reason for that) then you want SB-E which has a lot more to work with.

 

[Zap]

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

There are two "physical" PCIe x16 slots on that motherboard. Gigabyte routes all the PCIe lanes from the CPU (16 lanes, PCIe 2.0 if using Sandy Bridge, PCIe 3.0 if using Ivy Bridge) to the top slot. The bottom slot gets four PCIe 2.0 lanes from the chipset, which is probably all that is left over.

You can put a PCIe sound card, NIC, RAID card or graphics card in that second slot. Crossfire will work, but SLI probably will not.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Correct, it only has 4 lanes actually wired to the slot but it will fit a 16x card. The 16x card would only be able to utilise 4 lanes, but they can all do this.



No. If the card will physically fit in the slot then it will work, but as you have seen not necessarily at the bandwidth you might expect. Intel's Ivy Bridge only has 16x 3.0 PCI-E slots coming out of the CPU so if you need more than that it simply doesn't have them. What Intel and the board manufacturers are doing is providing more slots but with fewer lanes assigned incase you need the flexibility, which often only results in minor performance degradation.





If you want more than 16 lanes of PCI-E 3.0 (assuming you have a genuine reason for that) then you want SB-E which has a lot more to work with.

You just said the motherboard I posted a link to doesn't support PCI-E 3.0 because the B75 chipset doesn't support PCI-E 3.0 is that right? So what is Gigabyte trying to pull?

It seems like hardware manufacturers are just like politicians. You can't take your eyes off of them for 1 second without them pulling something.

 

[Zap]

The first slot is wired directly to the CPU. The second slot to the B75 chipset. CPU has 16 lanes of 2.0/3.0 depending on Sandy/Ivy. Chipset has 8 lanes of 2.0, probably some of which are used for stuff such as the NIC, audio...

 

[TheDarkKnight]

The first slot is wired directly to the CPU. The second slot to the B75 chipset. CPU has 16 lanes of 2.0/3.0 depending on Sandy/Ivy. Chipset has 8 lanes of 2.0, probably some of which are used for stuff such as the NIC, audio...

I can't pretend to understand everything you are saying without doing much more research. But you sound qualified enough to answer my original question. Is there a hint of deception in promoting and selling the motherboard I posted a link to as being PCIe 3.0 compliant? I am not knowledgeable enough to answer that yet but my gut tells me something is not quite right because of the fact that the B75 chipset doesn't even support PCIe 3.0. That sets off a red flag in my mind but maybe its a false alarm.

If you were to say that PCIe 3.0 support was available depending on which CPU I purchased(SandyBridge versus IvyBridge) that would make sense. But the fact is I can't buy this motherboard apart from the B75 chipset, they are a package deal. If the B75 chipset doesn't PCIe 3.0. I fail to see how in the hell, the motherboard or cpu could utilize PCIe 3.0.

 

[Meghan54]

I can't pretend to understand everything you are saying without doing much more research. But you sound qualified enough to answer my original question. Is there a hint of deception in promoting and selling the motherboard I posted a link to as being PCIe 3.0 compliant? I am not knowledgeable enough to answer that yet but my gut tells me something is not quite right because of the fact that the B75 chipset doesn't even support PCIe 3.0. That sets off a red flag in my mind but maybe its a false alarm.

If you were to say that PCIe 3.0 support was available depending on which CPU I purchased(SandyBridge versus IvyBridge) that would make sense. But the fact is I can't buy this motherboard apart from the B75 chipset, they are a package deal. If the B75 chipset doesn't PCIe 3.0. I fail to see how in the hell, the motherboard or cpu could utilize PCIe 3.0.

Where are you getting the B75 chipset doesn't support PCIe 3.0? As for what I've read, if you put an IVB cpu on the motherboard you linked to in your op, it supports PCIe 3.0. Put a SB cpu on the motherboard and you only get PCIe 2.0. The PCIe lane being 3.0 vs. 2.0 for that first PCIe x16 slot is dependent upon the mb chipset supporting it (which this mb does) and the cpu supporting it, which the IVB cpu does and the SB cpu does NOT.

From your Gigabyte mb's manual:

1 x PCI Express x16 slot, running at x16 (PCIEX16)
(The PCIEX16 slot conforms to PCI Express 3.0 standard.)

* For optimum performance, if only one PCI Express graphics card is to be installed, be sure to install it in the PCIEX16 slot.

* The PCI Express x16 slot supports up to PCI Express 2.0 standard when an Intel 32nm (Sandy Bridge) CPU is installed.

And as far as I've seen and read, every 7X series chipset supports at least on PCIe 3.0 x16 slot when used with an IVB cpu. But stick a SB cpu into that same chipset and that PCIe slot becomes a PCIe 2.0 compliant slot.

 

[wpcoe]

Since the discussion is about availability of PCIe 3.0, and the OP didn't specify a processor, let me toss in the ring:

The Ivy Bridge i3 processors do not support PCIe 3.0. They only support PCIe 2.0. (see http://ark.intel.com/compare/65700,71465,65698,65697,65696,65693,65694,65690,66168,65692)

Only the i5 and i7 Ivy Bridge processors support PCIe 3.0.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding would lead me to believe that if the NorthBridge chipset doesn't support PCIe 3.0 it really doesn't matter a whole helluva lot whether or not the CPU does. And from my research on Intels own website it doesn't appear that the B75 chipset supports PCIe 3.0.

I guess maybe Intel doesn't want everybody to know that the B75 chipset has PCIe 3.0 support because its completely absent from any description on this page:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/business-chipsets/b75-express-chipset.html
and this page:
http://ark.intel.com/products/64030/Intel-BD82B75-PCH

Or maybe somebody can find where it talks about PCIe 3.0 being included in the B75 chipset on this Intel page:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/b75-express-chipset-brief.html

Anybody got an official link that shows that the B75 chipset supports PCIe 3.0?
If anybody finds one, please let me know. Thanks.

 

[philipma1957]

first question what do want this to be used for? this is the lowest cost ivy chipset. it is not a good board for gaming. it does not oc well. I have the exact board that you are asking for. it is good for my useage that of bitcoin mining. it allows 2 7970 cards to run slightly underclocked at .9 volts and 880mhz. i use it with a 3470s and have used it with a 2500t cpu also a 2500k plus a 3770t

it is also good for business. in fact it uses less power on a kill-a-watt
meter then an asus maximus gene or an intel extreme p67 board when using the 2500k or 2500t cpu's .

so frankly I do not understand your complaint. BTW offical support documents from intel have made far more understatements for cpus then I can count. in fact the board you mention does not list t cpus as supported and it has run both 2500t and 3770t.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

The "only" thing I am concerned about at this point is whether or not Gigabyte is engaging in deceptive marketing tactics. If I buy a motherboard that says it supports a PCIe 3.0x16 slot and find out later that it really doesn't because it's been paired up with an Intel chipset that claims no support of PCIe 3.0 then I am not gonna be happy about it.

I know that hardware manufacturers engage in this deception all the time. Im just trying to educate myself all I can for my next motherboard purchase. And I am glad I have brought this issue up. I had my mind set on purchasing an IvyBridge i3-3225 but having now learned that the i3-3225 doesn't support PCIe 3.0, since it's only a dual-core, will allow me to make an informed decision in the future. It may encourage me to purchase a quad-core for the first time. But at least I will be doing it with eyes wide open.

All I am doing is trying to understand things.

 

[wpcoe]

Or maybe somebody can find where it talks about PCIe 3.0 being included in the B75 chipset on this Intel page:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...set-brief.html

This is from that Intel web page: