Man shoots himself in church while advocating for right to have guns in church

[Paladin3]

if life is important to you then sell your guns. Guns make you less safe.

If you are just going to keep repeating that mantra then we are going in circles. I've refuted it at length already.

To sum up: Just like any tool, a kitchen knife, chain saw or whatever, I am willing to accept the risk that I could accidentally hurt myself with my guns. I'm not a child who needs to be protected from hurting myself, but thank you for thinking I am.

Also, nothing that anyone on the anti-gun side has proposed is likely to work or make a dent in the gun violence. I believe we are going in the wrong direction when we seek to ban the tool a few sick/evil people use to hurt us with rather than dealing with the sick/evil among us directly.

Plus, the very gun you seek to ban is hands down the best tool for lawful self-defense. *AND* banning guns won't even disarm those those violent/sick/evil unless they agree to give them up without a fight.

Need more? Or just copy and past your last post in.

 

[Paladin3]

Funny how the vast majority of your fellow citizens don't seem to feel nearly so insecure & inadequate when they're not packing iron.

That's called an insult, not an argument to counter my position. And it revolves around your assumption that I am insecure and inadequate. Only my wife was allowed to call me that.

 

[ivwshane]

If you are just going to keep repeating that mantra then we are going in circles. I've refuted it at length already.

To sum up: Just like any tool, a kitchen knife, chain saw or whatever, I am willing to accept the risk that I could accidentally hurt myself with my guns. I'm not a child who needs to be protected from hurting myself, but thank you for thinking I am.

Also, nothing that anyone on the anti-gun side has proposed is likely to work or make a dent in the gun violence. I believe we are going in the wrong direction when we seek to ban the tool a few sick/evil people use to hurt us with rather than dealing with the sick/evil among us directly.

Plus, the very gun you seek to ban is hands down the best tool for lawful self-defense. *AND* banning guns won't even disarm those those violent/sick/evil unless they agree to give them up without a fight.

Need more? Or just copy and past your last post in.

This is based on what?

 

[zinfamous]

Your lying mouth needs a good cleaning, indeed. Look at how you still could not provide anything for your accusations. Not one. Tst..tst..tst... Little brain = big lying mouth.

Next!!!!

In other news, look at how the lying rat will quote my post and run its stupid mouth, again as usual...

One more thing, not one of the gun control wannabe dare to reply to my post above about Case 1 or 2? What is the matter? Pathetic wimp out as usual.....so keep whining and bitching about guns. So hapless and pathetic. Unable to do anything but whine and bitch.

man, just one sneeze and your low self-esteem sends you into trigger mode. No idea how shitty your childhood was, but you don't have to be this angry at the world, bro. The bullying will end, I promise.

 

[Younigue]

That's called an insult, not an argument to counter my position. And it revolves around your assumption that I am insecure and inadequate. Only my wife was allowed to call me that.

She's sounds awesome and super smart your wife.

 

[JSt0rm]

This is based on what?

based on his gut.

 

[Paladin3]

@Paladin3 if your position is so rational why does the nra lobby to stop funding of research into this stuff?

Heck if I know. Good peer reviewed research is a good thing, except when it's funded in an attempt to validate preconditioned ideas and push an agenda. We could argue that anything one of our elected officials advocates be researched will naturally be to validate their agenda because, well, politics. But I don't know about the particular research you are referring to.

And as I said, I'm not an NRA member or advocate. I generally support pro-gun organizations, but I investigated positions held by the NRA years ago and disagreed with much of it. Since then I've viewed them with a necessary evil, but mostly ignored them. I'm mostly happy with the stalemate the pro and anti-gun forces have arrived at to date.

 

[JSt0rm]

Heck if I know. Good peer reviewed research is a good thing, except when it's funded in an attempt to validate preconditioned ideas and push an agenda. We could argue that anything one of our elected officials advocates be researched will naturally be to validate their agenda because, well, politics. But I don't know about the particular research you are referring to.

And as I said, I'm not an NRA member or advocate. I generally support pro-gun organizations, but I investigated positions held by the NRA years ago and disagreed with much of it. Since then I've viewed them with a necessary evil, but mostly ignored them. I'm mostly happy with the stalemate the pro and anti-gun forces have arrived at to date.

fuck science, pass the ammo. Feels good.

 

[ivwshane]

Heck if I know. Good peer reviewed research is a good thing, except when it's funded in an attempt to validate preconditioned ideas and push an agenda. We could argue that anything one of our elected officials advocates be researched will naturally be to validate their agenda because, well, politics. But I don't know about the particular research you are referring to.

And as I said, I'm not an NRA member or advocate. I generally support pro-gun organizations, but I investigated positions held by the NRA years ago and disagreed with much of it. Since then I've viewed them with a necessary evil, but mostly ignored them. I'm mostly happy with the stalemate the pro and anti-gun forces have arrived at to date.

/facepalm

You are brainwashed.

 

[ivwshane]

fuck science, pass the ammo. Feels good.

Hey at least he doesn't support the NRA! Sure he uses their exact talking points but he totally disagrees with their positions! /eye roll

 

[JSt0rm]

/facepalm

You are brainwashed.

its best not to engage these people. They are completely lost. Well until their kid blows their own brains out with their dads gun. then they get it.

 

[Paladin3]

What studies have been done that show it's possible to disarm criminals in America without instituting a complete prohibition of civilian owned firearms?

thats your strawman dummy.

Call it a strawman, but it's a very commonly held attitude by many otherwise law-abiding gun owners. Haven't you seen all the bumper stickers? Didn't you hear Charlton Heston "...from my cold dead hands!" as he held up the musket? It's a fact that many won't obey any gun prohibition that is past.

If you feel the bolded is unreasonable then how do you disarm those who are killing people without disarming us all? We already have laws making murder illegal and punishable by up to death and still people do it. What restrictions short of complete prohibition will work? That's a valid question and not a strawman.

 

[Paladin3]

/facepalm

You are brainwashed.

Hey at least he doesn't support the NRA! Sure he uses their exact talking points but he totally disagrees with their positions! /eye roll

Call me brainwashed and a liar all you want...doesn't make you right or me wrong.

 

[Paladin3]

its best not to engage these people. They are completely lost. Well until their kid blows their own brains out with their dads gun. then they get it.

My youngest is 17 and can legally buy her own gun in another eight months. Not that she would, she finds shooting boring, but she knows how to use one and could if it was necessary. She's been taught it's better to take her phone and run out the back door if possible.

Thanks for your concern.

 

[brycejones]

Call it a strawman, but it's a very commonly held attitude by many otherwise law-abiding gun owners. Haven't you seen all the bumper stickers? Didn't you hear Charlton Heston "...from my cold dead hands!" as he held up the musket? It's a fact that many won't obey any gun prohibition that is past.

If you feel the bolded is unreasonable then how do you disarm those who are killing people without disarming us all? We already have laws making murder illegal and punishable by up to death and still people do it. What restrictions short of complete prohibition will work? That's a valid question and not a strawman.

Hmmm

Something other countries have figured out and possible options have been posted in this very thread.

But whatever

 

[Paladin3]

This is based on what?

IMHO, of course. If you can show me otherwise I am listening. I don't need studies, just your opinion of how further laws against gun ownership could be effective in keeping guns out of the hands of evil/sick individuals who would use them to hurt others AND not be an undue burden on the lawful gun owner.

 

[JSt0rm]

Hmmm

Something other countries have figured out and possible options have been posted in this very thread.

But whatever

its like healthcare. We have examples all over the world how to do things the correct way but no. We must do it the freedumb way.

 

[Paladin3]

Hmmm

Something other countries have figured out and possible options have been posted in this very thread.

But whatever

Please see my post here, starting in the second paragraph, about this

 

[Bird222]

Funny how the vast majority of your fellow citizens don't seem to feel nearly so insecure & inadequate when they're not packing iron.

That's what makes America great, can be an individual and decide for yourself.

 

[fskimospy]

No, every gun owner isn't responsible. Many of them are damn unsafe, and we do our best to call out and avoid those idiots because they make us all look bad.

Do you have any real arguments that don't hinge on us all have an IQ in the low single digits? Most of us advocate personal responsibility far more than the average person does.

I already made those?

 

[ivwshane]

IMHO, of course. If you can show me otherwise I am listening. I don't need studies, just your opinion of how further laws against gun ownership could be effective in keeping guns out of the hands of evil/sick individuals who would use them to hurt others AND not be an undue burden on the lawful gun owner.

Uh, no, you made the claim now back it up.

 

[Paladin3]

its like healthcare. We have examples all over the world how to do things the correct way but no. We must do it the freedumb way.

Single payer is the way to go, IMHO. We wouldn't let a member of our family suffer for lack of ability to pay. Why do we allow a member of our society to?

 

[Jhhnn]

That's what makes America great, can be an individual and decide for yourself.

Yeh, carry freaks always remind me of Pigpen & his blanket...

 

[Paladin3]

Uh, no, you made the claim now back it up.

Back it up with what? I said it was my opinion. I don't believe there is any way to stop all gun violence with further gun control laws unless that gun control involves either complete prohibition of civilian owned guns, or is sufficiently restrictive that it violates the constitution.

You could do it by changing the constitution but that's about it. IMHO, of course. Now ask me to prove it again and we can go in more circles.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Abso-fuckin-lutely. Pro-gun =! pro-trump. We need to stop assuming folks on either side of this debate are one dimensional stereotypes of the rabid right or left-wingers. It's a lot easier to discredit and hate them if we do so, but it's counterproductive.

True and the first response to my question came from one of them who wrongfully assumed pretty much everything about my reasoning for asking it in the first place..