Man Calls Suicide Prevention Hotline, SWAT Team Shows Up and Kills Him

[jlee]

that article is just as useless.

So is the one in the OP.

Nothing has been released yet, other than an armed barricaded suicidal person was in a standoff with police.

I know why, because many of these departments have all this gear now and other than training, which is probably underfunded anyway, this is the only time they get to "man up" and throw all their shit on and do something with it. They need to be severely penalized for using SWAT in this manner. Management needs reprimanded or fired, officers need re-trained, and maybe some of their SWAT gear needs to be re-looked and removed where necessary.

There's no reason why they can't have someone on staff trained in suicide intervention and give them some military grade body armor, a helmet, and their pistol to defend themselves. Then, put a few more guys covertly in overwatch position and just TALK TO THIS PERSON.

Hell, the two times I went in to deal with suicidal Soldiers, I went in with nothing more than my law enforcement body armor and my partner standing just inside the door frame with his pistol drawn and held behind his shooting hip just in case. You dehumanize these people and back them into a corner with overwhelming force.

You're pretty judgmental, considering nobody knows what happened.

 

[jlee]

You have to remember how police are trained now: citizens are their enemy. All citizens are out to kill all cops. Their life is in constant danger and they must do whatever is necessary to stop the threat. So they get sent to a call like this and they go in with the biggest guns they have. Their only goal is "to go home at night". If they have to kill a citizen or two, so be it.

The police are no longer out there to help us. That stopped a very long time ago. Now they are either revenue generators or they are out to stop threats. That's it.

That's funny, considering I personally know of more lives saved than taken by officers I have worked with.

It's also fairly disappointing to hear, as I thought you and I were friends for the last ~5 years. Good to know what your opinion was now, though.

 

[rudeguy]

That's funny, considering I personally know of more lives saved than taken by officers I have worked with.

It's also fairly disappointing to hear, as I thought you and I were friends for the last ~5 years. Good to know what your opinion was now, though.

I used to be all in favor of cops. That was before this new us vs them trend.

I'm sure you are one of the good guys, I'm sure there are lots of good guys. The thing is that the good guys are much fewer and far between than the others.

Please prove me wrong. Prove that cops don't violate people's rights every single day. Please prove that cops don't arrest people just because a person didn't give them the respect they think they deserve. Please explain why so many cops shoot unarmed citizens and then claim they were in fear for their lives.

If the police actually did their job and protected us, this country would be a much better place.

 

[jlee]

I used to be all in favor of cops. That was before this new us vs them trend.

I'm sure you are one of the good guys, I'm sure there are lots of good guys. The thing is that the good guys are much fewer and far between than the others.

Please prove me wrong. Prove that cops don't violate people's rights every single day. Please prove that cops don't arrest people just because a person didn't give them the respect they think they deserve. Please explain why so many cops shoot unarmed citizens and then claim they were in fear for their lives.

If the police actually did their job and protected us, this country would be a much better place.

No, you just never hear about the 900,000 good ones because they won't sell news stories.

Relevant:

Deputy Sheriff Michael Norris succumbed to a gunshot he suffered two days earlier when he and another deputy responded to a call of an armed suicidal man at a home in the 100 block of Haley Lane, in Juliette, at approximately 5:45 pm.

As the deputies approached the front door the subject opened fire with a handgun, wounding both deputies. During the exchange of gunfire the subject was wounded in the leg. He was then taken into custody at the scene.

Deputy Norris was transported to the Macon Medical Center where he was pronounced brain dead the following day, but kept on life support for two days so his organs could be donated.

Deputy Norris had served with the Monroe County Sheriff's Office for two years. He is survived by his wife, parents, and one sibling.

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/officer/22184-deputy-sheriff-michael-norris#ixzz3H5QF0f9n

That was last month. Where's the story?

 

[jtvang125]

It'll be interesting to hear how the initial call to the suicide hotline went. Was it, "my life isn't worth living anymore and I'm thinking of committing suicide"? Or the more likely "I have a gun and I'm going to fucking kill myself", which resulted in the outcome?

 

[fralexandr]

No, you just never hear about the 900,000 good ones because they won't sell news stories.

Relevant:

Deputy Sheriff Michael Norris succumbed to a gunshot he suffered two days earlier when he and another deputy responded to a call of an armed suicidal man at a home in the 100 block of Haley Lane, in Juliette, at approximately 5:45 pm.

As the deputies approached the front door the subject opened fire with a handgun, wounding both deputies. During the exchange of gunfire the subject was wounded in the leg. He was then taken into custody at the scene.

Deputy Norris was transported to the Macon Medical Center where he was pronounced brain dead the following day, but kept on life support for two days so his organs could be donated.

Deputy Norris had served with the Monroe County Sheriff's Office for two years. He is survived by his wife, parents, and one sibling.

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/officer/22184-de...#ixzz3H5QF0f9n

That was last month. Where's the story?

edit: Oh nvm It's the deputy that was brain dead

 

[jlee]

brain dead? shot in the leg? I wish they'd elaborate on that :|

The person in the house was shot in the leg.

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2014/09/13/two-deputies-shot/15609311/

Monroe County Chairman Mike Bilderback said Deputy Norris was shot in the head, while Deputy Wilson was shot in the abdomen and leg. He says Wilson is alert and expected to recover.

 

[rudeguy]

No, you just never hear about the 900,000 good ones because they won't sell news stories.

Relevant:


That was last month. Where's the story?

Your lack of answer my questions leads me to believe that you know what I said is true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtx1tYc7PxI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufn8cKUjxbk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0yOEMTRlSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbtfYM7wTRc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J40T7dBFxvc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLmrTENZwDA

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+intimidation

 

[mizzou]

I used to be all in favor of cops. That was before this new us vs them trend.

I'm sure you are one of the good guys, I'm sure there are lots of good guys. The thing is that the good guys are much fewer and far between than the others.

Please prove me wrong. Prove that cops don't violate people's rights every single day. Please prove that cops don't arrest people just because a person didn't give them the respect they think they deserve. Please explain why so many cops shoot unarmed citizens and then claim they were in fear for their lives.

If the police actually did their job and protected us, this country would be a much better place.

Not sure what proof would help you. If you've lost hope in humanity to be overall good and faithful, then no proof will ever exist to let you trust another human being with the power to force someone to go before a court of public opinion.

The vast majority of police out there follow the rules of law and try to make a difference out there. There are some who blatantly violate rules/regulations, but they are a very very few. And honestly, they get caught all the time and don't make it very far in law enforcement.

"So many cops shoot unarmed citizens and then claim they were in fear of their lives". Just think about that, when you say "so many" you mean, "publicized and distributed stories". If "so many" is in reality a statistically insignificant number....then what number of shootings would you be content with...zero?

The police ARE doing their job and they ARE making this country a much safer place. Statistics prove this! Absent some pockets of violence, which honestly are being flamed by media and other mis-aligned forces, the country is safer then it ever was.

The only thing that stands between normal civilized life and complete utter chaos and anarchy is a ...thin...blue...line. The men and women who took an oath of office to serve, protect, and uphold the laws of our country. If that oath these people have taken means nothing, then I think you've lost complete faith in the ability of people to govern themselves.

 

[rudeguy]

Not sure what proof would help you. If you've lost hope in humanity to be overall good and faithful, then no proof will ever exist to let you trust another human being with the power to force someone to go before a court of public opinion.

The vast majority of police out there follow the rules of law and try to make a difference out there. There are some who blatantly violate rules/regulations, but they are a very very few. And honestly, they get caught all the time and don't make it very far in law enforcement.

"So many cops shoot unarmed citizens and then claim they were in fear of their lives". Just think about that, when you say "so many" you mean, "publicized and distributed stories". If "so many" is in reality a statistically insignificant number....then what number of shootings would you be content with...zero?

The police ARE doing their job and they ARE making this country a much safer place. Statistics prove this! Absent some pockets of violence, which honestly are being flamed by media and other mis-aligned forces, the country is safer then it ever was.

The only thing that stands between normal civilized life and complete utter chaos and anarchy is a ...thin...blue...line. The men and women who took an oath of office to serve, protect, and uphold the laws of our country. If that oath these people have taken means nothing, then I think you've lost complete faith in the ability of people to govern themselves.

mizzou...I like you buddy....but you have no idea what you are talking about. You are speaking in general terms of the way you think things should be. I'm talking about what happens in the real world.

 

[jlee]

Your lack of answer my questions leads me to believe that you know what I said is true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtx1tYc7PxI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufn8cKUjxbk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0yOEMTRlSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbtfYM7wTRc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J40T7dBFxvc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLmrTENZwDA

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+intimidation

Congratulations, a handful of youtube links. What, do you want me to go find the 2 million non-existent youtube videos showing positive encounters? Because THAT's what people record, right? Incidents where nothing goes wrong?

Whatever, dude. Your mind is already made up.

 

[SKORPI0]

people who are threatening to kill themselves should understand what they are getting into. if they don't, well, they WERE asking for it.

if the guy really wanted help, he shouldn't have started a standoff.

The cops should be trained the proper procedure on dealing with this kind of situation. Perhaps call a "negotiator" to see how it can be resolved without anyone getting hurt or killed. Rushing through the persons door en masse was just asking for both parties involved to have a shoot out.

The end result of this was not unique, you'll hear about it every time in the news. The blame to be put on mostly on the cops on how it was handled.
Of course you'll only hear about what went wrong, not what was done right (nothing bad happened) and reported by the news.

 

[rudeguy]

Congratulations, a handful of youtube links. What, do you want me to go find the 2 million non-existent youtube videos showing positive encounters? Because THAT's what people record, right? Incidents where nothing goes wrong?

Whatever, dude. Your mind is already made up.

My mind was made up a long time ago when I defended cops. I was the first one in a cop thread flaming people who talked shit about cops. The mindset of cops now changed that.

I'm asking you to prove me wrong so that I can change my mind. I'm begging you to.

Or maybe I'm hoping to open your eyes a little so maybe the change can start from the inside.

 

[jlee]

The cops should be trained the proper procedure on dealing with this kind of situation. Perhaps call a "negotiator" to see how it can be resolved without anyone getting hurt or killed. Rushing through the persons door en masse was just asking for both parties involved to have a shoot out.

The end result of this was not unique, you'll hear about it every time in the news. The blame to be put on mostly on the cops on how it was handled.
Of course you'll only hear about what went wrong, not what was done right (nothing bad happened) and reported by the news.

Gwynn said the incident began about 4 a.m. Tuesday when officers responded to a 911 call, itself reportedly generated by the man’s call to a suicide hotline.

Roy officers who discovered the man was barricaded inside the home were soon joined by the Weber Metro SWAT unit, which attempted to negotiate the man’s surrender for more than six hours.

Doesn't sound like "rushing through the persons door en masse" to me, but maybe you know something I don't.

 

[jlee]

My mind was made up a long time ago when I defended cops. I was the first one in a cop thread flaming people who talked shit about cops. The mindset of cops now changed that.

I'm asking you to prove me wrong so that I can change my mind. I'm begging you to.

Or maybe I'm hoping to open your eyes a little so maybe the change can start from the inside.

What you're asking is impossible to prove. What could possibly be done to satisfy your request? Scan a few hundred thousand personnel files of officers with no complaints and post them on the internet?

 

[mizzou]

mizzou...I like you buddy....but you have no idea what you are talking about. You are speaking in general terms of the way you think things should be. I'm talking about what happens in the real world.

The fact that you think I'm being dishonest is understandable, but honeslty I know exactly what I'm talking about. I realize this is the internet where we are all experts on every subject, but when it comes to this stuff in real life, trust me.

Likewise, I do not know you, I don't know your experiences, but I will tell you this.

The vast majority of people will only have 1 or 2 face to face experiences with law enforcement. Whether that's on a traffic stop or them knocking on your door. Those 1 or 2 experiences will shape your lifetime expectations of what police are like.

When it comes to what police do, you can trust me that the vast majority do the right thing when it needs to be done. What is the "right" thing? It first has to be justified legally. Then you have the internal moral/ethical decisions. Do I write this ticket? Do I give a warning? Do I act now or wait? Do I do nothing and look the other way? Do I etc. etc. etc.

It's a crapshoot every day because no situation is the same. There is no rule book for every scenario...just training and guidelines. You can quarterback the police all day and come up with all sorts of shit, but when you have a fraction of a second to make a decision, you HAVE to do something.

 

[BoberFett]

"We're from the government, and we're here to help."

*BLAM*

 

[BoberFett]

So is the one in the OP.

Nothing has been released yet, other than an armed barricaded suicidal person was in a standoff with police.

A standoff? This wasn't a criminal, it was a guy calling a suicide hotline. The article goes on to talk about this guy "not surrendering" to the police.

Sure sounds like the police were treating this guy like an enemy, not a mental health situation.

 

[mizzou]

 

[jlee]

A standoff? This wasn't a criminal, it was a guy calling a suicide hotline. The article goes on to talk about this guy "not surrendering" to the police.

Sure sounds like the police were treating this guy like an enemy, not a mental health situation.

Which is why they negotiated for six hours, right?

 

[mizzou]

A standoff? This wasn't a criminal, it was a guy calling a suicide hotline. The article goes on to talk about this guy "not surrendering" to the police.

Sure sounds like the police were treating this guy like an enemy, not a mental health situation.

Suicide hotline is a mandatory reporter, they HAVE to call police. Police don't want to be mental health experts, there just isn't anyone else equipped or wanting to deal with it.

What should the suicide hotline do if they get a call from someone saying, "I'm going to shoot myself in my bathroom. I don't know what to do, help me."

 

[BoberFett]

Which is why they negotiated for six hours, right?

Negotiate?

Again, you're making it sound like a hostage situation and the guy was a criminal.

Perhaps if there had been a qualified counselor talking to him about why he doesn't want to kill himself rather than the SWAT team telling to put down his weapon and come out with hands up, it wouldn't have turned into a "standoff."

But no, with the cops it's always straight to confrontation.

 

[poofyhairguy]

you've lost complete faith in the ability of people to govern themselves.

Yes. I think that is obvious at this point.

 

[Rakehellion]

No, you just never hear about the 900,000 good ones because they won't sell news stories

I've never been in trouble with the law, but all of my encounters with police have proven them to be rude and power-hungry.

 

[jlee]

Negotiate?

Again, you're making it sound like a hostage situation and the guy was a criminal.

Perhaps if there had been a qualified counselor talking to him about why he doesn't want to kill himself rather than the SWAT team telling to put down his weapon and come out with hands up, it wouldn't have turned into a "standoff."

But no, with the cops it's always straight to confrontation.

Clearly you know exactly what happened, so I'll defer to your first-person knowledge of the incident.