Man at Hospital Ordered to Pay $525 for Refilling 89-Cent Drink

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TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
I wonder how many of these re-fill tickets have been handed out or this the first one?

Also $525?

Punishment is supposed to fit the crime.

Does $525 fit?





Really. OK what do you think it should be?

$1,000

$10,000

Where I live (Ohio), it could be up to 6 months incarceration and up to $1000 fine. So $525 plus no time seems like a relative bargain.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
$0.89 is a reasonable price for a soda. So do they do the same for Coffee? I think there is some doubt because many different restaurants let you refill your cup. Then also if they do charge for a refill, they dont charge you for the actual cup twice, just the soda. A lot of confusion is caused by what I call a Workaraunt where they give you a cup and then you fill it up. This is a sad commentary on the lack of service at a Restaurant. The hospital I go to has the food then the cash registers then the seeting area. This makes for clearly defined serving and eating area. If they do not deliniate the eating area from the preperation areas then it is unclear what is expected.

I think a man deserves a trial by jury. I think issuing a citation in writing means it goes on your record. They could have just told him he is no longer welcome and dont come back. This is an extreme punishment for a restaurant.

Maybe he should picket outside their front door for the next 6 months!
 
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crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
2,294
146
Normally I have precious little sympathy for thieves. But it's hard to me to think of someone taking an unpaid refill as a thief. Such an action is technically theft, but given that the vast majority of restaurants with accessible soda machines offer free refills, it's very hard for me to condemn this guy because he is basically behaving within accepted norms.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
Normally I have precious little sympathy for thieves. But it's hard to me to think of someone taking an unpaid refill as a thief. Such an action is technically theft, but given that the vast majority of restaurants with accessible soda machines offer free refills, it's very hard for me to condemn this guy because he is basically behaving within accepted norms.

One could make the exact same argument over pirating Windows yet we frown on that here correct?

Technical theft is still theft. They had a promiscuous sign posted. Shame on him for not abiding by the T&C.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
2,294
146
One could make the exact same argument over pirating Windows yet we frown on that here correct?

Technical theft is still theft. They had a promiscuous sign posted. Shame on him for not abiding by the T&C.

I never figured you for the authoritarian type. Goes to show how so many preconceptions are just wrong, wrong, wrong.

But I cannot argue your point. He's a perp and has to pay the consequences.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
I never figured you for the authoritarian type. Goes to show how so many preconceptions are just wrong, wrong, wrong.

But I cannot argue your point. He's a perp and has to pay the consequences.

I don't think you can box me into a "type". If you go and review my posts you'll see a consistent theme.

Our Constitution, and our laws are our social contract with the government. Both we and the government need to abide by them both in law and in spirit. When we don't, the law becomes a tool to be used against the unpopular and political enemies. This has happened again and again throughout history.

I personally don't think he should be paying a 3 digit fine over $0.30 worth of soda. However, that is the law. If it is unjust it should be changed.

I believe the way justice currently works in this country is a joke.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
1,084
3
81
One could make the exact same argument over pirating Windows yet we frown on that here correct?

Technical theft is still theft. They had a promiscuous sign posted. Shame on him for not abiding by the T&C.

There is a clear difference between an intentional act and an accidental one. Most laws acknowledge this by requiring mens rea--a guilty mind--for an act to be criminal. Lack of intent means lack of a crime.

This guy was charged under state code 16-13-110, which requires "intention of depriving the merchant of the possession, use, or benefit of the merchandise without paying the full retail value." If the victim's story is true, he believed that he had paid for the merchandise, and likely could have successfully argued his lack of intent in court. In any case, the situation should have been handled by asking him to pay the cashier for the illicit refill.

(Also, you probably meant prominent, not promiscuous, although the thought of a slutty sign is pretty funny. Bitten by spell check?)
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
It hurts my head to think that someone thought that this was worth litigating.

"The posted signage states that we don't offer free refills."

>if "Okay" and payment
Thank you, please come again.

>if "What? No way!"
Please don't come back.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I don't think you can box me into a "type". If you go and review my posts you'll see a consistent theme.

Our Constitution, and our laws are our social contract with the government. Both we and the government need to abide by them both in law and in spirit. When we don't, the law becomes a tool to be used against the unpopular and political enemies. This has happened again and again throughout history.

I personally don't think he should be paying a 3 digit fine over $0.30 worth of soda. However, that is the law. If it is unjust it should be changed.

I believe the way justice currently works in this country is a joke.
I read a study a decade or so back about the cost of soda in theaters. At that time, it cost a theater six cents to put a large Coke in your hands. The largest portion was by far the cup at five cents. Given that they have removed most of the labor and he had already paid for the cup, we're probably talking about a penny or so worth of product. Literally a 50,000% fine over what presumably everyone agrees was an honest mistake.

Now to protect the public from inadvertently becoming thieves we'll have to have a law that requires drinks without free refills to be behind the counter for controlled access. We're becoming a nation that is too stupid to operate in a free society, and zero tolerance is a big part of that.

There is a clear difference between an intentional act and an accidental one. Most laws acknowledge this by requiring mens rea--a guilty mind--for an act to be criminal. Lack of intent means lack of a crime.

This guy was charged under state code 16-13-110, which requires "intention of depriving the merchant of the possession, use, or benefit of the merchandise without paying the full retail value." If the victim's story is true, he believed that he had paid for the merchandise, and likely could have successfully argued his lack of intent in court. In any case, the situation should have been handled by asking him to pay the cashier for the illicit refill.

(Also, you probably meant prominent, not promiscuous, although the thought of a slutty sign is pretty funny. Bitten by spell check?)
Agreed, and it was a reasonable (though in this case wrong) assumption.

I feel for the guy, especially given that I've had a similar experience. Leaving a hotel one morning I stopped by the Continental breakfast bar (literally a single bar with a selection of either vending machine bagels or vending machine danish, coffee or reconstituted orange juice) and grabbed a danish and a tiny Dixie cup of orange juice. As I walked out, an employee chased me down and told me that I had to pay for those. I apologized of course and tried to pay, but she couldn't take the money - one had to make one's selections, walk from the bar in mid-hotel to the front desk, stand in line with people waiting to check out to pay for one's breakfast - cost me about $10 bucks for what was then a 50 cent plastic wrapped vending machine danish and maybe two ounces of reconstituted orange juice - then walk back to the breakfast area to eat it. (Or in my case, out the back door to the parking area to my getaway car to escape with my heist's ill-gotten gains.) I was on better legal grounds as there were no such signs anywhere - when questioned, the woman just said "everybody knows our Continental breakfast ain't free", a singularly stupid thing to say in a hotel where everybody knows only what you tell them - but it could have easily been the same situation had it been on federal property with an overpaid and underbrained Nicky Nightstick running his sting operation.

It hurts my head to think that someone thought that this was worth litigating.

"The posted signage states that we don't offer free refills."

>if "Okay" and payment
Thank you, please come again.

>if "What? No way!"
Please don't come back.
I think the issue here is that he didn't notice the sign and reasonably assumed that, like 99%+ of restaurants with self-service drink machines, refills were free. A similar "crime" would be putting out a stack of napkins with a sign stating "$1 each". But yes, simply asking him to pay (after pointing out the sign) or barring him from the restaurant would have made a lot more sense.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
You never fail to disappoint.

Or never disappoints to fail?


Maybe the guy was genuinely oblivious, or perhaps he's been complained about for a while and they finally busted his ass. Either way it's a ticket for theft.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,921
4,491
136
You have to admit though, zero tolerance for certain transgressions is childish.

The man was not only fined but apparently lost his job over an issue which could easily have been handled with few friendly casual words and a laugh instead of what's going to amount to at least dozens of lawyer-hours and taxpayer dollars.

But hey, this is P&N. Why the heck am I trying to be rational about it.

This. Not saying he isnt in the wrong, but come on. Just talk to him for fucks sake.