Man apparently seeking help killed by police

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
the idea that no one can possibly make a mistake that can go unpunished is a stupid one, and we largely have lawyers to thank for that mindset.

Agreed 100%

Shooting an oncoming unarmed man simply because he won't stop and lay down is not acceptable when you have two other cops to render assistance even if you think he's a home invader; the threat simply isn't that great.

It's not really an analogous situation. Society empowers cops to deal with dangerous people for us. We put them at greater risk than the general population; therefore they must also have greater discretion to use force than does the general population.

Agreed 100%

It's silly to act like a citizen shooting a cop 10 times is the same situation as a cop shooting a citizen 10 times. Could there be certain loose canon situations where a citizen shooting an officer might be justified? Sure, but those would be quite rare compared to situations where an officer would be justified in shooting a citizen. By the very nature of their jobs they will find themselves in situations, particularly in some cities and areas, in which split second, life and death decisions have to be made, and in which shooting people may be necessary.

But I agree that when you have multiple officers, you shouldn't go straight to the firearm... they could've tackled him or tazed him or whatever.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
It's not really an analogous situation.

Of course it is.

Society empowers cops to deal with dangerous people for us.

Yet the majority of the time these police initiate violence against non-aggressive people. Why? Because they can and because you believe they have the right to. Such a mentality leads to abuse and you get what we have here.

We put them at greater risk than the general population; therefore they must also have greater discretion to use force than does the general population.

They are in "greater risk" because they are, more often than not, the aggressors using physical violence against citizens. People aren't treated as people, they are treated as subjects. Also this "greater discretion" BS is just code for "above the law". No I'm sorry. Before we have any real civilized society its going to have to start with holding everyone accountable for their actions. Police are regularly slapped on the wrist for murder and hardly reprimanded for physical abuse. You give them the right to act that way because you think "oh that poor officer, he has such a hard job". Morality be damned.

Otherwise police as an institution are not operable and we're back to the mob - and in many places, evil can produce at least as big a mob.

Wait, is this the "well its less evil" argument? Wow. If so have you tried to even think it through? Police are the biggest mob/gang on the block with the most firepower and the perceived right to beat, rob, cage or kill. Evil is evil no matter what fairy dust you want to sprinkle on their anointed badges.

Police are nothing more than political mercenaries and that's why they enjoy benefits the rest of us serfs don't. There's no disputing that fact as its proven over and over. What I employ you to do is see each situation from both sides and ask "if the roles were reversed would we get the same result"? When involving a perceived "authority" more times than not the answer is no.

Legality is not the arbiter of what is right and wrong.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
the majority of the time these police initiate violence against non-aggressive people.

Really?

You think that the majority of time police shoot someone, it was for no reason, and the person shot was completely non-aggressive?

Methinks you've got a nasty case of confirmation bias. Please try to keep in mind what has to be true about a police shooting for you to ever even end up hearing about it.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Really?

You think that the majority of time police shoot someone, it was for no reason, and the person shot was completely non-aggressive?

Methinks you've got a nasty case of confirmation bias. Please try to keep in mind what has to be true about a police shooting for you to ever even end up hearing about it.


Is aggressive violence limited to shootings?
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
278763_472480779431378_1102510948_o-1.jpg
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
Uh oh, Spaghetti-O's!

But now, legal experts agree the swiftly filed voluntary manslaughter charges against the officer ultimately won’t hold up against mounting evidence supporting self defense; and an expected reduction in charges, or eventual acquittal, may only reignite racial tensions.

...The case has police organizations worried racial politics is swaying internal decisions in cities across the country...

Like the racially explosive Martin case – in which the unarmed black teen was fatally shot by a neighborhood watch captain – the Charlotte shooting appeared from initial reporting to be an open-and-shut case of excessive force...

As the victim’s family lawyers and sympathetic media told the story, Ferrell was shot repeatedly merely for running to police and asking them for help after crashing his car.

They claimed there was no warning from the three officers who responded to the scene before shots were fired, making it seem like a young black man was gunned down in cold blood.

...In fact, footage from a dashboard-mounted police camera shows officers commanded Ferrell at least three times to stop before Kerrick fired, but Ferrell continued to advance menacingly toward them...

“Orders were given by one of the officers as it relates to him stopping,” confirmed Charlotte Police Chief Rodney Monroe, who is African-American. “There were statements given of that nature.”

The NAACP, however, insists it was an “execution” of a black man.

However, the video shows Kerrick first opened fire after Ferrell – who as a former Florida A&M University football player was much larger than Kerrick – charged him while ignoring commands and concealing his hands. Kerrick fired more rounds after Ferrell continued to move forward to the point where he made physical contact with the officer.

“His hands were not in the air,” said Kerrick attorney George Laughrun. At one point before the shooting, Laughrun added, “You see one of his hands partially behind his back, concealed, as he continued to advance.”

Ferrell may have been under the influence of controlled substances.

Witnesses reported to investigators that they saw Ferrell, who had dropped out of college, drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana in the hours before he crashed his car at an entrance to a suburban Charlotte neighborhood that Saturday at 2:30 a.m.

A 911 tape reveals a frantic call from homeowner Sarah McCartney, who was home alone with her 1-year-old son while her husband was traveling. Through tears, she reported Ferrell trying to kick in her front door in what she thought was an attempted robbery. Banging and yelling can be heard in the background.

“How could this white woman be so terrified by the mere sight of a black man – an injured one at that – that she couldn’t contain her fright long enough to even hear out his plea for help? Come on,” wrote Neil Drumming a black columnist for Salon.com.

Drumming said nothing excuses “her utter lack of empathy,” while failing to report that Ferrell tried to kick in her front door. The 911 tape indicates Ferrell wasn’t acting like a helpless man but a ferocious threat.

Nonetheless, black radio called McCartney a “racist b—-” guilty of a “hate crime.”

A number of black activists posted McCartney’s home address along with photos of her home on social media. As a result, a number of vehicles have driven by her house harassing her family. They have had to hire security for protection.

I know a lot of people aren't fond of World Net Daily links, but from what I can tell that's mostly just a function of "I don't like their point of view, therefore I hereby declare they are a bad source, for all time!"

Regardless, there seems to at least be reason to think this story is considerably more complicated than it was initially billed.

The real question is, when are people going to stop buying into these early MSM, fact deficient, racially charged narratives? Or at least stop calling those who don't jump on the bandwagon "racists" etc?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Uh oh, Spaghetti-O's!



I know a lot of people aren't fond of World Net Daily links, but from what I can tell that's mostly just a function of "I don't like their point of view, therefore I hereby declare they are a bad source, for all time!"

Regardless, there seems to at least be reason to think this story is considerably more complicated than it was initially billed.

The real question is, when are people going to stop buying into these early MSM, fact deficient, racially charged narratives? Or at least stop calling those who don't jump on the bandwagon "racists" etc?

Given your racist history here I'm not at all surprised at your giddiness...
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
0
Rofl..... Someones disagrees with you on anandtech and you can't really debate with them? Simple! Call them a racist and walk away.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Given your racist history here I'm not at all surprised at your giddiness...

Dari was wrong in the Martin case and here also.

A few bad apples do not make most bad.

Best to not jump on the bandwagon until all the facts are presented.

What this does demonstrate is that all LEO should have cameras on/active
Both dash and on body.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,584
985
126
Probably just a simple mistake. The police obviously didn't understand the situation. The guy did not clearly communicate what the problem was. It's really sad, but sometimes bad things happen.

Let's be honest here, he was a black man. Bad things seem to happen to black men more often than asian men or white men.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
Let's be honest here, he was a black man. Bad things seem to happen to black men more often than asian men or white men.

And do you think that's because society and cops are just totally, inherently, fundamentally, and irredeemably racist?

Or could it be that black men, on average, put themselves in situations which are likely to go bad, and where the police are likely to be involved in, at a much higher rate?

If a group of people insist on constantly engaging in criminality, violence, and aggressive posturing toward law enforcement, resisting arrest, etc... the odds that they will be involved in police shootings, both justified and murky, are going to sky rocket.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Let's be honest here, he was a black man. Bad things seem to happen to black men more often than asian men or white men.

Is it because there is a higher percentage of black men go looking for trouble or feel that they are immune to following orders of the law. Culture?

Plus the media goes all out to sensualize blacks as victim of white. Sells better.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Dari was wrong in the Martin case and here also.

A few bad apples do not make most bad.

Best to not jump on the bandwagon until all the facts are presented.

What this does demonstrate is that all LEO should have cameras on/active
Both dash and on body.

How was I wrong?
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,797
572
126
We need the results of the toxicology report.

And if there are trace amounts of whatever in his system we need to dig deeper and determine if they indicate that there was enough in his system to cause him to crash his car.

In a past example someone who died in a car crash was found to have very low trace amounts of drugs that indicated use in the past month or so but news organizations jumped on the band wagon declaring that he was high during the crash... which doesn't square up with the amount of drugs found in his system by the toxicology report.


edited 2 add

That's what you wrote. What grown man writes like that or says something like "yippee!!!" if they're not giddy? Again, given your racist history, your reaction to the latest news is not at all surprising.

yeah, generally just providing a link suffices, but whatever.

The burden of proof is on "the prosecution" as it were and regardless of my opinion that burden is a rather heavy lift so it's not really worth the time.
 
Last edited: