Man Accused Of Shooting Alleged Sacramento Car Thief 31 minutes ago

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classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BoomerD
An update to this ...On last night's news, they said that he chased them down the street, and fired several more shots at them...THAT makes the prosecution worthwhile IMO. Personally, I'm all in favor of being able to shoot the car thieves...IN THE ACT, but once they ran away, he was in the wrong chasing them down and shooting at them...

Like I said "A classic NRA gun toting Moron"

But do you have the guts to call him that to his face? :p

To be honest most men who run around with all these guns are nothing but cowards. And if he doesn't have a gun pointed at me I would tell him so. Him and anyone else to their f'in face. And for a punk b!tch like you to suggest that I would be afraid to say it to his face because he has gun just further proves my point. But here's the question would him or you be bad enough to talk trash to someone's face without your gun? Fairy :p
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BoomerD
An update to this ...On last night's news, they said that he chased them down the street, and fired several more shots at them...THAT makes the prosecution worthwhile IMO. Personally, I'm all in favor of being able to shoot the car thieves...IN THE ACT, but once they ran away, he was in the wrong chasing them down and shooting at them...

Like I said "A classic NRA gun toting Moron"

But do you have the guts to call him that to his face? :p

To be honest most men who run around with all these guns are nothing but cowards. And if he doesn't have a gun pointed at me I would tell him so. Him and anyone else to their f'in face. And for a punk b!tch like you to suggest that I would be afraid to say it to his face because he has gun just further proves my point. But here's the question would him or you be bad enough to talk trash to someone's face without your gun? Fairy :p


Where did you get that idiotic statement from? Did you ever think that people might want to have a gun for protection against other people with guns, mainly criminals?

If you don't have a gun in your house to protect your family I'd say that that is pretty irresponsible. But hey, at least when someone breaks into your house you can run out in the hallway and call them cowards......
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Originally posted by: JD50

Where did you get that idiotic statement from? Did you ever think that people might want to have a gun for protection against other people with guns, mainly criminals?

If you don't have a gun in your house to protect your family I'd say that that is pretty irresponsible. But hey, at least when someone breaks into your house you can run out in the hallway and call them cowards......


Just listen to yourself. This is not the wild wild west. Just grow up, idiot
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: JD50

Where did you get that idiotic statement from? Did you ever think that people might want to have a gun for protection against other people with guns, mainly criminals?

If you don't have a gun in your house to protect your family I'd say that that is pretty irresponsible. But hey, at least when someone breaks into your house you can run out in the hallway and call them cowards......


Just listen to yourself. This is not the wild wild west. Just grow up, idiot

I really hope that you are not depending on the Police to protect when someone breaks into your house, you are in for a big surprise.........I hope that that never happens to you and that you can wallow in your ignorance for the rest of your life, but there are some of us that have had to deal with things that actually happen in the real world.

 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BoomerD
An update to this ...On last night's news, they said that he chased them down the street, and fired several more shots at them...THAT makes the prosecution worthwhile IMO. Personally, I'm all in favor of being able to shoot the car thieves...IN THE ACT, but once they ran away, he was in the wrong chasing them down and shooting at them...

Like I said "A classic NRA gun toting Moron"

But do you have the guts to call him that to his face? :p

To be honest most men who run around with all these guns are nothing but cowards. And if he doesn't have a gun pointed at me I would tell him so. Him and anyone else to their f'in face. And for a punk b!tch like you to suggest that I would be afraid to say it to his face because he has gun just further proves my point. But here's the question would him or you be bad enough to talk trash to someone's face without your gun? Fairy :p

I dunno but for railing everyone in this thread who supports this guy , you sure are one hell of an internet tough guy yourself.

Do your parents a favor and hush, you are embarrassing them.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BoomerD
An update to this ...On last night's news, they said that he chased them down the street, and fired several more shots at them...THAT makes the prosecution worthwhile IMO. Personally, I'm all in favor of being able to shoot the car thieves...IN THE ACT, but once they ran away, he was in the wrong chasing them down and shooting at them...

Like I said "A classic NRA gun toting Moron"

But do you have the guts to call him that to his face? :p

To be honest most men who run around with all these guns are nothing but cowards. And if he doesn't have a gun pointed at me I would tell him so. Him and anyone else to their f'in face. And for a punk b!tch like you to suggest that I would be afraid to say it to his face because he has gun just further proves my point. But here's the question would him or you be bad enough to talk trash to someone's face without your gun? Fairy :p

I dunno but for railing everyone in this thread who supports this guy , you sure are one hell of an internet tough guy yourself.

Do your parents a favor and hush, you are embarrassing them.

LOL, seriously. I'm a punk bitch coward fairy for standing up for my right to own a gun? Somebody do this guy a favor and put him out of his misery. :laugh:
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BoomerD
An update to this ...On last night's news, they said that he chased them down the street, and fired several more shots at them...THAT makes the prosecution worthwhile IMO. Personally, I'm all in favor of being able to shoot the car thieves...IN THE ACT, but once they ran away, he was in the wrong chasing them down and shooting at them...

Like I said "A classic NRA gun toting Moron"

But do you have the guts to call him that to his face? :p

To be honest most men who run around with all these guns are nothing but cowards. And if he doesn't have a gun pointed at me I would tell him so. Him and anyone else to their f'in face. And for a punk b!tch like you to suggest that I would be afraid to say it to his face because he has gun just further proves my point. But here's the question would him or you be bad enough to talk trash to someone's face without your gun? Fairy :p

I dunno but for railing everyone in this thread who supports this guy , you sure are one hell of an internet tough guy yourself.

Do your parents a favor and hush, you are embarrassing them.

LOL, seriously. I'm a punk bitch coward fairy for standing up for my right to own a gun? Somebody do this guy a favor and put him out of his misery. :laugh:


Real men don't use guns, guns are for cowards. Hell, real men don't use their fists either, real men go around with their hands tied behind their back headbutting people.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,235
10,810
136
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,235
10,810
136
Originally posted by: BoomerD
An update to this ...On last night's news, they said that he chased them down the street, and fired several more shots at them...THAT makes the prosecution worthwhile IMO. Personally, I'm all in favor of being able to shoot the car thieves...IN THE ACT, but once they ran away, he was in the wrong chasing them down and shooting at them...

That changes everything. I think you should have the right to stop the crime, but once it is over and the criminals have fled it is the Police's job to go after them (not that cops actually look for car thiefs, though).
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

I, and thankfully the law, will never agree with this.

Edit: Short story, 2 weeks ago I was awakened at 4am to find my wife fighting with some crazy drunk b!tch that had broken into our house (she must have thought it was her house), I have several guns in the house and never once was did the thought enter my head that I have to get my gun and blow this loon away. We pushed her out of the house and locked the door and called the police. By the time they arrived, she was gone but better than them arriving to find her dead in my house.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

I, and thankfully the law, will never agree with this.


Its quite obvious that you would much rather see some guy just trying to protect what is his go to jail than a criminal get hurt, but thanks for clarifying.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

I, and thankfully the law, will never agree with this.


Its quite obvious that you would much rather see some guy just trying to protect what is his go to jail than a criminal get hurt, but thanks for clarifying.


And you have made it quite clear that you think you should be able to kill anyone who steals from you. Thanks for clarifying. And yes, he should rot in jail for taking the law into his own hands. I hope you follow in his footsteps if given the chance. Nice strawman btw (pst, remember the part where I said they should rot along side him in jail so nice try, so cloooose, but as per norm, you have failed).

Edit: and I pray to God you never get the chance to become a cop, unless of course it is for the Iraqi police. It saddens me that our brave men and women are dying over there when we have such tough e-soldiers over here willing to shoot first and ask questions later. Go be all that you can be and put some of that tough gun swinging justice to some use.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

It's a car, not your life. I don't care if you are Bruce Lee and Rambo rolled up into one package of ass-kicking and name-taking, if you see some guys stealing your car out of your driveway, you get whatever weapon you might have, make sure your doors are locked and you call the police. If they come busting in, by all means start shooting, but you're not in immediate danger with them out in your driveway, and you could quite possibly make things much worse. What if they WERE armed? That's 3 guys with guns against your one gun, so now instead of having your car stolen, you'd dead. This wasn't self defense, it was law enforcement...by someone singularly unequipped to that role.

This is my problem with this sort of thing...there is zero barrier to entry for firearm ownership. So you get the power without the responsibility or intelligence to know how to use it well. I'm all for using whatever weapons you have to defend your life, but this guy put himself in way more danger than he needed to by playing Rambo. And from the comments gun owners are always making, this does not seem like a one-off viewpoint.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

I, and thankfully the law, will never agree with this.


Its quite obvious that you would much rather see some guy just trying to protect what is his go to jail than a criminal get hurt, but thanks for clarifying.


And you have made it quite clear that you think you should be able to kill anyone who steals from you. Thanks for clarifying. And yes, he should rot in jail for taking the law into his own hands. I hope you follow in his footsteps when given the chance. Nice strawman btw.

Edit: and I pray to God you never get the chance to become a cop.


I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

I, and thankfully the law, will never agree with this.


Its quite obvious that you would much rather see some guy just trying to protect what is his go to jail than a criminal get hurt, but thanks for clarifying.


And you have made it quite clear that you think you should be able to kill anyone who steals from you. Thanks for clarifying. And yes, he should rot in jail for taking the law into his own hands. I hope you follow in his footsteps when given the chance. Nice strawman btw.

Edit: and I pray to God you never get the chance to become a cop.


I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.

WAS being the key word here. Thank goodness. If the only thing that prevents you from killing anyone who walks onto your property is it being against the law, then perhaps you should be in a cell somewhere. Thankfully you are no longer in the position (for whatever reason) to legally carry a gun at your side in your daily life.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

It's a car, not your life. I don't care if you are Bruce Lee and Rambo rolled up into one package of ass-kicking and name-taking, if you see some guys stealing your car out of your driveway, you get whatever weapon you might have, make sure your doors are locked and you call the police. If they come busting in, by all means start shooting, but you're not in immediate danger with them out in your driveway, and you could quite possibly make things much worse. What if they WERE armed? That's 3 guys with guns against your one gun, so now instead of having your car stolen, you'd dead. This wasn't self defense, it was law enforcement...by someone singularly unequipped to that role.

This is my problem with this sort of thing...there is zero barrier to entry for firearm ownership. So you get the power without the responsibility or intelligence to know how to use it well. I'm all for using whatever weapons you have to defend your life, but this guy put himself in way more danger than he needed to by playing Rambo. And from the comments gun owners are always making, this does not seem like a one-off viewpoint.


You do make a good point, and it is safer for all involved to wait it out and call the cops. But I think that some people are just getting fed up and want to take things into their own hands. Mainly because the cops are generally not going to get there in time. The criminals know all of this, this is why they keep doing it. Its gonna take people standing up for themselves and fighting back against crime to have a real effect.

Its kind of like people testifying against gangs, its safer for them to say they didn't see a thing and pretend like it never happened. Because if they decide to testify, they will probably get their house firebombed (this has happened in Baltimore a few times) and their whole family will be killed. But its gonna take people standing up and not being afraid of these gangs to have a real impact.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: JD50
...
I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.

And as a cop, I would assume you know that turning law enforcement over to poorly trained folks with NRA cards in their wallets will almost always make things more dangerous, not less. We're not talking about "defending yourself", we're talking about taking the law into your own hands. And as far as decreasing crime, seems like there are a lot of things we could do to decrease crime. Giving every beat cop the authority to chop the hands off anyone caught committing a felony would be a big step in that direction, I imagine. But since we live in America, the government can't do stuff like that...I don't see how it's any better if private citizens area allowed to take such extreme measures.

Stop looking at this like everyone in the world is a criminal who's rotten to the core. Laws that allow this guy to do what he did would also allow him to gun me down if he THOUGHT I was stealing his car, without the benefit of a trial of a legal defense on my part. You'll forgive me if that makes me a little uncomfortable.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

I, and thankfully the law, will never agree with this.


Its quite obvious that you would much rather see some guy just trying to protect what is his go to jail than a criminal get hurt, but thanks for clarifying.


And you have made it quite clear that you think you should be able to kill anyone who steals from you. Thanks for clarifying. And yes, he should rot in jail for taking the law into his own hands. I hope you follow in his footsteps when given the chance. Nice strawman btw.

Edit: and I pray to God you never get the chance to become a cop.


I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.

WAS being the key word here. Thank goodness.


You don't know a damned thing about me and my time in law enforcement. Lucky for you, most good cops will put their lives on the line for anyone, even thankless, ignorant a$$holes like yourself.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

I, and thankfully the law, will never agree with this.


Its quite obvious that you would much rather see some guy just trying to protect what is his go to jail than a criminal get hurt, but thanks for clarifying.


And you have made it quite clear that you think you should be able to kill anyone who steals from you. Thanks for clarifying. And yes, he should rot in jail for taking the law into his own hands. I hope you follow in his footsteps when given the chance. Nice strawman btw.

Edit: and I pray to God you never get the chance to become a cop.


I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.

WAS being the key word here. Thank goodness.


You don't know a damned thing about me and my time in law enforcement. Lucky for you, most good cops will put their lives on the line for anyone, even thankless, ignorant a$$holes like yourself.

If your posting history is any indication of your history as a police officer, I think we can all sleep a little safer at night knowing fvcktards like you can't brandish a firearm every time someone steps on their grass. The fact that you can not see that you are no different than the common street thug with your bullsh!t e-talk is laughable.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: JD50
...
I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.

And as a cop, I would assume you know that turning law enforcement over to poorly trained folks with NRA cards in their wallets will almost always make things more dangerous, not less. We're not talking about "defending yourself", we're talking about taking the law into your own hands. And as far as decreasing crime, seems like there are a lot of things we could do to decrease crime. Giving every beat cop the authority to chop the hands off anyone caught committing a felony would be a big step in that direction, I imagine. But since we live in America, the government can't do stuff like that...I don't see how it's any better if private citizens area allowed to take such extreme measures.

Stop looking at this like everyone in the world is a criminal who's rotten to the core. Laws that allow this guy to do what he did would also allow him to gun me down if he THOUGHT I was stealing his car, without the benefit of a trial of a legal defense on my part. You'll forgive me if that makes me a little uncomfortable.

See my post above, I do agree with you on the safety aspect of it. But the cops can't be there all the time, more often than not cops are writing the report and taking statements after the fact. But things will not get better if we keep punishing people for protecting their life and their property, it just makes it easier on the criminals. Now I'm not talking about seeing some guy standing near your car, grabbing your rifle and shooting him from the window of your house no questions asked. Some common sense needs to be involved, but I do see what you are saying in that a lot of people lack the common sense to be able to make those kinds of decisions.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: JD50
...
I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.

And as a cop, I would assume you know that turning law enforcement over to poorly trained folks with NRA cards in their wallets will almost always make things more dangerous, not less. We're not talking about "defending yourself", we're talking about taking the law into your own hands. And as far as decreasing crime, seems like there are a lot of things we could do to decrease crime. Giving every beat cop the authority to chop the hands off anyone caught committing a felony would be a big step in that direction, I imagine. But since we live in America, the government can't do stuff like that...I don't see how it's any better if private citizens area allowed to take such extreme measures.

Stop looking at this like everyone in the world is a criminal who's rotten to the core. Laws that allow this guy to do what he did would also allow him to gun me down if he THOUGHT I was stealing his car, without the benefit of a trial of a legal defense on my part. You'll forgive me if that makes me a little uncomfortable.

See my post above, I do agree with you on the safety aspect of it. But the cops can't be there all the time, more often than not cops are writing the report and taking statements after the fact. But things will not get better if we keep punishing people for protecting their life and their property, it just makes it easier on the criminals. Now I'm not talking about seeing some guy standing near your car, grabbing your rifle and shooting him from the window of your house no questions asked. Some common sense needs to be involved, but I do see what you are saying in that a lot of people lack the common sense to be able to make those kinds of decisions.

The common sense aspect of it is really the big factor for me. Believe it or not, I actually really support the idea of a person's right to defend themselves, and I don't think police, no matter how skilled, can take the place of self-defense. But I'm worried about how far beyond real self-defense we want to take it, mostly because I'm not sure how good the decisions are that people make when it comes to that sort of thing.

It's not really an easy question, no matter what folks on either side are saying. I think for sure that you should have every right to defend yourself within your home if you're in personal danger, but it becomes a lot stickier of an issue when we're just talking about defense of your property when you're NOT in immediate danger. On the one hand, you're certainly right that auto theft might drop off if everyone started shooting car thieves on site, but do you really trust the average Joe with the power to make those kinds of decisions? And beyond that, might it not also result in thieves simply arming themselves too and what was an auto theft now becomes a gun battle?
 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
5,695
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
And as a cop, I would assume you know that turning law enforcement over to poorly trained folks with NRA cards in their wallets will almost always make things more dangerous, not less. We're not talking about "defending yourself", we're talking about taking the law into your own hands. And as far as decreasing crime, seems like there are a lot of things we could do to decrease crime. Giving every beat cop the authority to chop the hands off anyone caught committing a felony would be a big step in that direction, I imagine. But since we live in America, the government can't do stuff like that...I don't see how it's any better if private citizens area allowed to take such extreme measures.

Only problem with your argument is that cops are there to punish people for committing crimes and very very rarely actually prevent a crime. The victim is the first line of defense for preventing a crime and any law prohibiting a victim from reasonably doing so should be thrown out of the books.

It's sad that somebody has to just stand there and watch his car get stolen with the only option of calling the police who will probably never catch the thief.

 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: JD50
...
I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.

And as a cop, I would assume you know that turning law enforcement over to poorly trained folks with NRA cards in their wallets will almost always make things more dangerous, not less. We're not talking about "defending yourself", we're talking about taking the law into your own hands. And as far as decreasing crime, seems like there are a lot of things we could do to decrease crime. Giving every beat cop the authority to chop the hands off anyone caught committing a felony would be a big step in that direction, I imagine. But since we live in America, the government can't do stuff like that...I don't see how it's any better if private citizens area allowed to take such extreme measures.

Stop looking at this like everyone in the world is a criminal who's rotten to the core. Laws that allow this guy to do what he did would also allow him to gun me down if he THOUGHT I was stealing his car, without the benefit of a trial of a legal defense on my part. You'll forgive me if that makes me a little uncomfortable.

But things will not get better if we keep punishing people for protecting their life and their property, it just makes it easier on the criminals.

Who the hell in this thread has made the argument that protecting your life is not a good reason to shoot back or FIRST for that matter. Like my post above, had I grabbed my gun first and asked questions later, I would be in jail right now awaiting trail simply because some drunk cow broke into our house thinking she was somewhere else. I am sure I could at least try to convince the jury our lives were in danger but that fact would remain, I would be lying. I think there are way too many people who shoot first in this country and your posts seem to be championing that simply because they were protecting their property. Give me a fvcking break. My car, my home, my boat are not worth taking someone else's life over. I deal with too many gunshots in the ER on a daily basis as it is, no need to go back to the wild west days. Good people get shot, bad people get shot, someone has to try and save their lives. Stop trying to increase my workload! ;)
 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
5,695
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
...but do you really trust the average Joe with the power to make those kinds of decisions? And beyond that, might it not also result in thieves simply arming themselves too and what was an auto theft now becomes a gun battle?

Personally, I trust the average Joe to make those kinds of decisions. Why? Because the average Joe would not attempt to kill somebody unless they really thought it was necessary.

Thieves already arm themselves...but the problem with that argument lies with the fact that thieves really don't want to risk their lives to steal even if they are armed as well as the victim.

 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: smashp
Equal force


Unless this guy can explain why he felt getting his car stolen was a Immediate realistic threat to his life.

No kidding. I have NO problem with people using force, even lethal force, when it's necessary to defend yourself. But laws that make it legal to kill someone who has committed any crime at all against you seems like a bad idea. It moves from the realm of self defense into being a vigilante...which is EXACTLY how the people in favor of it are phrasing the issue. No doubt the car thief isn't exactly a model citizen, but even if he deserves to die for trying to steal a car, I'm not sure it should be up Joe Sixpack to dish out the punishment.

It is 3am, you have 3 young guys standing on your driveway in the act of committing a felony. How was the guy supposed to know they would not try to harm him? They could have easily also had a gun. Here is a story for you:

Guy walks out of house without a gun while kids are stealing his car,
Guy: "Hey WTF are you doing?!"
Kid #1 pulls out gun and shoots homeowner, jumps in car and leaves.

BTW: Shooting someone in the act is not being a vigilante, hunting them down after the fact would be.

I do think he should have given a verbal warning before shooting and if that did not deter the kids, he was in his right to shoot.

I, and thankfully the law, will never agree with this.


Its quite obvious that you would much rather see some guy just trying to protect what is his go to jail than a criminal get hurt, but thanks for clarifying.


And you have made it quite clear that you think you should be able to kill anyone who steals from you. Thanks for clarifying. And yes, he should rot in jail for taking the law into his own hands. I hope you follow in his footsteps when given the chance. Nice strawman btw.

Edit: and I pray to God you never get the chance to become a cop.


I have made my positions quite clear, I'm sorry if you are unable to read the whole thread. I would not shoot someone stealing from me because it is against the law. IF it was legal, I'm sure crime would drop dramatically. I think it is everyones right to protect what is theirs, but its still against the law, so I will comply. This guy appears to have chased the crooks down the street and then shot at them, that is wrong. The Police are not going to be there to save you anytime you have a problem, you need to be able to defend yourself. How do I know this? Well I was a cop for 3 years jackass.

WAS being the key word here. Thank goodness.


You don't know a damned thing about me and my time in law enforcement. Lucky for you, most good cops will put their lives on the line for anyone, even thankless, ignorant a$$holes like yourself.

If your posting history is any indication of your history as a police officer, I think we can all sleep a little safer at night knowing fvcktards like you can't brandish a firearm every time someone steps on their grass. The fact that you can not see that you are no different than the common street thug with your bullsh!t e-talk is laughable.

My posting history has absolutely nothing to do with my professional history. You don't enforce only the laws that you agree with and let everything else slide. I have said several times that I would NOT shoot someone that was stealing my car, apparently you can't read. You should sleep safer at night knowing that there are people like me that will still protect people like you, even after all of your baseless insults. You talk awful tough on this board about how you would act in certain situations, when you have obviously never been threatened, or even out numbered and in a dangerous situation. Talk about bullsh!t e-talk......

I'm sorry that you cannot see the difference between law abiding citizens and "the common street thug", but that sounds more like a personal problem. But honestly, you sound more to me like just another asshat that doesn't like authority, you turned awful aggressive once I told you that I was a cop. I've met a lot of people like you, and when the sh1t hits the fan, you'll be the first one scrambling towards the phone dialing 911, asking for a "fvcktard like me" to come save your ass.