Malay-Muslims of Thailand

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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The thread sarcastically referring to Islam being the "religion of peace" frustrated me. It frustrated so much that I finally created an account here an decided to clear up some thing.

The specific subject of the Malay-Muslims of southern Thailand particularly interested me because I had spent a few hours today studying it. For such an ignorant post to be made, and that ignorance not to be pointed out, seemed wrong to me.

In 1899 the Thai king Rama V ordered Pattani to come under Thai control. After some resistence by 1902 it was under Thai control, and with that came Thai laws, which replaced Sharia law. The locals believed Sharia law to be mandatory to follow and enforce, as according to their religious practices, and also believed it was their duty to resist a non-Muslim occupier.

The Thais and the Malays are different ethnically, culturally, or religiously. However during the past century Thailand has had a consistent policy of forced assimilation of the Malay people. In 1921 they instituted a law that made it mandatory for Malay children to attend Thai primary schools, primarily for the purpose of teaching them Thai language. Prior to this the Malays of Pattani had been renowned for their muslim schools which were considered the best in Southeast Asia.

This law led to protests which led to Thai forces coming down south to supress those protests, which led to violence. This cycle would be repeated many times in the last century and still today.

In 1938 or so the Malays were by law not allowed to dress in their traditional fashions, instead they had to wear western clothing. Under an ultra-nationalist prime minister more brute force was used to supress the separatists.

By the 1960s the Thai government further interfered with traditional muslim schooling to the point where Malay families sent their children overseas to learn. Overseas to places like the Middle East, which caused them to more closely identify themselves with the muslim world.

By the 1970s there are guerilla groups fighting for independence. After a few ups an downs in the cycles of violence, and the implementation of more tolerant policies by the Thai government, the Malays still do not identify with the Thais. They are still different ethnically, culturally, and religiously.

So before you bring up the Malay separatist movement recognize it is the creation of injustice perpetrated by the Thai government over the last one hundred years. The acts of the terrorists are brutal but one must first recognize the source of terrorism before condemning the terrorists.

Any group, no matter what religion, will violently resist annexation by a group of people they cannot identify with in any way. For that reason please refrain from using the Malay-Muslims of southern Thailand as a target for your bigotry.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
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Whatever lies you may spread about some "oppressed minority" and their Pallywood spin on terrorism and fanaticism, nothing changes the fact that of all the religions in the world, many many "adherents" of one of them currently seem intent on killing people just because they are different.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
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Originally posted by: Termagant
Whatever lies you may spread about some "oppressed minority" and their Pallywood spin on terrorism and fanaticism, nothing changes the fact that of all the religions in the world, many many "adherents" of one of them currently seem intent on killing people just because they are different.

If you are saying someone is lying why don't you post facts to back it up.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: Termagant
Whatever lies you may spread about some "oppressed minority" and their Pallywood spin on terrorism and fanaticism, nothing changes the fact that of all the religions in the world, many many "adherents" of one of them currently seem intent on killing people just because they are different.

That's an understandable view and an easy one to take given what we see on the news. But if you ever get a chance to study invidividual, case-by-case causes for terrorism such as this I think you'd be surprised how justified some of these causes are.

Terrorism tactics are dispicable and disgusting, however I attribute them more to the human factor rather than Islam specifically. Any small group with enough reason to fight will resort to such tactics, as it has been proved through history. It just so happens that muslims are that group.

What is also interesting is that al Queda exploits these situations to create an overall global terror network with a much larger goal than many of these smaller independence movements ever intended. It isn't too far of a leap from having a mindset of 'it's us (Malays) versus them (Thais)' to 'It's us (Muslims) versus them (Buddhist occupiers).' By making their local schools worthless and basically forcing them out to study in the Middle East, the Thais are in part to blame for the shift in that mindset, and groups like al Queda are the beneficiary.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
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I'm not saying anyone is lying.

But what I will say is that certain cultures are more predisposed to lies, exaggerations, and self-victimization than others. I will take any "justification" for terrorism and burning Buddhist women with a grain of salt.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: Termagant
I'm not saying anyone is lying.

But what I will say is that certain cultures are more predisposed to lies, exaggerations, and self-victimization than others. I will take any "justification" for terrorism and burning Buddhist women with a grain of salt.

That is quite a racist statement you made there, and quite a limited view you're taking on the situation. I could just as easily bring an example of Thai brutality towards the Malays, for example when Thai soldiers murdered a few innocent civilians in 1975 and caused the most massive protests in Malay history. There has been violence on both sides, and when it is a case of one side occupying the other's native land you have to wonder who is really in the wrong.

Like I said I don't justify the tactics of terrorism, in fact I think they have ruined the Malay cause which at this point looks lost in a circle of violence. But until you get out of that "Bring 'em on!" mentality and recoginize that these people have real greivances, the violence will never end.

edit: And there are more recent cases of Thai brutality but that is one I remembered specifically.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
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Armed resistance is fine, but targeting civilians is not. "But the Thai Army did it" isn't a good excuse either. The Malay-Muslims should have decided to be better men and not target innocents just because their enemies did. If incidents like that in the original thread are not a systemic tactic or policy, but rather the actions of some loose cannons, then perhaps it's even more tragic as it taints the movement's image and chances for legitimization in outsiders' eyes.
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
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Originally posted by: Termagant
Armed resistance is fine, but targeting civilians is not. "But the Thai Army did it" isn't a good excuse either. The Malay-Muslims should have decided to be better men and not target innocents just because their enemies did. If incidents like that in the original thread are not a systemic tactic or policy, but rather the actions of some loose cannons, then perhaps it's even more tragic as it taints the movement's image and chances for legitimization in outsiders' eyes.

I have read more than once him saying that he doesn't condone terrorist tactics but understands that these actions have a reason, why do you have to keep going in circles around this?

And yes it is the action of some loose cannons not the entire Malay people, but what about the actions of the Thai people? Where are they?
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: Termagant
Armed resistance is fine, but targeting civilians is not. "But the Thai Army did it" isn't a good excuse either. The Malay-Muslims should have decided to be better men and not target innocents just because their enemies did. If incidents like that in the original thread are not a systemic tactic or policy, but rather the actions of some loose cannons, then perhaps it's even more tragic as it taints the movement's image and chances for legitimization in outsiders' eyes.

My point is war is hell. You are judging a group of people as being predisposed to this kind of violence when in fact many other, non-muslims groups have resorted to such tactics when faced with similar problems. I am not justifying their actions, instead I'm trying to point out that they are not without legitamite cause. I believe in conflict you must first look at the cause of the problem if you are to find a solution, and in this case the cause is Thai oppression. No matter how ugly the war has turned at this point we must recognize that in the end the Thais are occupying soil they do not have a right to.

I mean what do you expect when the world ignores them twice (250,000 signed a petition to the UN after World War II asking to become part of Malaysia, rejected due to Britain's rice deal with the Thais; appeal to British in 1902 was rejected due to Thai's role as a buffer state), and they are consistently having their culture stripped away from them. Then they get sent off to learn from Saudis or Pakistanis because you take away their local religious schools, and you have a recipe for terrorism brewed up by the Thais themselves.

Imagine the Chinese did all this same stuff to the USA for the past 100 years.. forcing us to learn Chinese in their schools, forcing us to dress in Chinese clothing, forcing us to learn Confucian ideas.. do you honestly believe Americans would not kill innocent Chinese settlers here?
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
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There is no Muslim culture.
Thailand has their own culture.

Is there any credible evidence that links poverty to violence?