Making a family budget PC as quiet as possible

[nubki11a]

Hi all,

I'm putting together a new build for my dad, it will mainly be used for browsing, emails, Excel and some other programs. He doesn't plan on overclocking so I know he doesn't really need an aftermarket CPU-cooler. He does want it to be as quiet as possible though, so that's why I'm thinking about buying him the Gelid Tranquillo Rev.2 to keep the noise down a bit. Now my question is, will this be a significant improvement over the stock cooler from the i5-4460 for €28,- extra? Furthermore, would it be worth it to buy quieter fans for the case or would that be total overkill?

The rest of the build thus far:
CPU: i5-4460
MB: ASRock B85M Pro4/Asus H18M-D PLUS
Case: Corsair Carbide 200R
PSU: Corsair VS450
RAM: G.Skill RipjawsX 8GB (reasonably high heatsink)
1TB HDD and 128GB SSD

Looking forward to what you guys think!

EDIT: Summary of the most important points mentioned in this thread:

• Try to only use SSD's in quiet builds, if you have to use a HDD, ALWAYS use rubber vibration mounts (even DIY solutions are better than nothing)
• Invest in a high-quality PSU with more than enough power for your uses (Seasonic is good)
• Aftermarket CPU coolers are recommended, even if you're not overclocking (a cheap one like the Gelid Tranquillio is fine)
• Fractal Design's Define R4, R5 and Mini are really, really highly regarded and also quiet. If it's significantly cheaper, consider the Cooler Master Silencio 352
• The less open vents you have in your case the better (noise-wise)
• Block off unused fan vents, foam board is ideal
• ALWAYS use rubber fan mounts
• ALWAYS thermally control the fans from the motherboard or use a fan controller
• Consider just buying a PC pre-made at a store if you're not planning on building something above average
• Get a motherboard with as many PWM connections as possible
• Consider ducting if you've got the time (http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2370973&highlight=gentle+typhoon+117+cfm)
• High quality fans of the "beefier" sort will still be just as quiet across the lower 2/3 of their RPM range.

Also:

My criteria, roughly in order, would be:

1. Efficient PSU that isn't oversized. Could be fanless, but doesn't need to be. An efficient PSU of the proper size will spin its fans slowly and be effectively silent. Reviews of PSUs that pay attention to noise are good to reference.
   
   
2. Onboard GPU. One set of unnecessary fans eliminated.
   
   
3. Good, quiet case fans that can easily be speed-controlled down to under 700 RPM.
   
   
4. Fan controller for _all_ case fans. I'll take onboard software control of case fans over old-fashioned manual controls any day. It's well worth finding a motherboard that can do this, but they're pretty common these days.
   
   
5. Good CPU cooler and fan. Even if not overclocking, they can go a long way toward quieting a build. You don't need the most expensive cooler available - the mid-priced ones are excellent value.
   
   
6. SSD for the majority of OS, programs and data storage. Size it appropriately.
   
   
7. HDD only if you need bulk multimedia storage or have unusual data storage requirements. If you do, consider using 2.5" drives for quietest operation.
   
   
8. Good case, with internal sound damping. Perhaps the least important item. After taking care of all of the above, the system will already be silent or very close to it.

 

[lehtv]

Are you sure the CPU is what's causing the noise? I'm sure it accounts for some of it, but you should be sure. Have you set PWM mode to Silent in the BIOS?

200R has fans running at full speed of around 1000 RPM, downvolting them to 7V might help.

 

[Blain]

An i5-4460 is way overkill for the tasks to be performed.
A J2900 based system with 8GB of memory and a snappy SSD are exactly what your pop needs.
Plenty of juice for what he needs as well as quiet and cool running... Cheaper too!

 

[nubki11a]

Thanks for the insights! @Lehtv, I haven't actually built it yet, I'm just speculating that the CPU fan might be noisy at times. I don't have any experience with the 200R though so it might not need any aftermarket cooling... What do you think?

@Blain, I suspected the same. He wants a fast PC though so he's willing to spend a bit more on a better CPU. I could only find one motherboard with the J2900: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/410815/asrock-q2900-itx.html. Isn't there something that's between the 4460 and J2900 performance-wise that he could use?

EDIT: I might get him this screen to go with his new PC: http://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-25UM55-P which is very affordable at €183,- for a 2560x1080 resolution. Would the onboard graphics from the J2900 be able to support this resolution though?

 

[lehtv]

Oh sorry, I thought you have it up and running already. Did you buy any parts yet, or did you buy them but just haven't built it yet? So much ambiguity

 

[nubki11a]

I understand the confusion, sorry I haven't bought anything yet. Just selecting components at the moment.

 

[lehtv]

For the basic uses you describe I'd probably build a mini-ITX system with near-silent fans. Something like this:

i3 Haswell e.g. i3-4160 3.6GHz
Asus H81 ITX board
cheapest 2x4GB DDR3-1600 1.5V kit you can find
Crucial MX100 256GB SSD
Scythe Tatsumi 100mm @ min. 300 RPM cooler
BeQuiet 140mm PWM fan for the case fan slot
PWM splitter to connect both fans to motherboard (set to Silent in BIOS)
Antec EA-380D or Seasonic G-360 power supply
CM Elite 110 case

Should be somewhere around 500-550 euros.

no hard disk (just creates noise and doesn't seem to be needed for your uses)

MicroATX (in Cooler master N200, for instance) would not be much cheaper, mainly the motherboard would be something like 20 euros cheaper.

 

[nubki11a]

Wouldn't you be paying a premium for the smaller components though? The build I've got now, with the 200R and i5-4460 is exactly €555,55 including shipping:

Using the list you gave me I made a second build using the CM N200 and a micro-ATX MB which is €476,- including shipping. The extra cooling costs €47,- in this build though, which might be a bit too much for just having a bit more silent case as he won't be overclocking.

So for €80,- less, the second build has a slower CPU and no HDD (compensated by the 120GB extra SSD), is that worth it?

Thanks for your help thus far!

 

[lehtv]

The only smaller components in my example build are the case and the motherboard. The case is just as cheap as any similar quality microATX case, and the motherboard is only a little more expensive, as mentioned.

Wouldn't you be paying a premium for the smaller components though? The build I've got now, with the 200R and i5-4460 is exactly €555,55 including shipping

The problem I have with this is that if you intend to build it "as quiet as possible", then the PSU isn't optimal, and the Intel cooler isn't optimal. The case is also slightly expensive for what's basically an office build, something like Bitfenix Neos would do fine.

I'm also not convinced you need an i5 for this build. Even a Pentium would be fine, as you haven't mentioned anything that requires much CPU power. Also, keep in mind that i5-4460 is a Haswell Refresh and may not be supported by the out-of-the-box BIOS of a B85 chipset board. I think Gigabyte ships theirs with updated BIOSes (at least, their CPU compatibility lists show the same BIOS version for both Haswell and Haswell Refresh CPUs), so you might want to look into a Gigabyte H81 or stick with a non-Refresh Haswell.

Using the list you gave me I made a second build using the CM N200 and a micro-ATX MB which is €476,- including shipping. The extra cooling costs €47,- in this build though, which might be a bit too much for just having a bit more silent case as he won't be overclocking.

The CM N200 doesn't support 140mm fans, so drop the BeQuiet and the PWM splitter. I'd recommend trying to reduce the case fans' speed with the motherboard, and if that doesn't work, you can manually downvolt them with these. After these changes, I think this build looks perfect, it's just my personal preference that I'd rather have a proper ITX build .

So for €80,- less, the second build has a slower CPU and no HDD (compensated by the 120GB extra SSD), is that worth it?

Plus it has an aftermarket cooler. IMO it is worth it, assuming the PC does not need to have a storage hard drive. If he's really just browsing the web, reading emails and using a few programs, even a 128GB SSD could be big enough.

 

[nubki11a]

Alright, you have convinced me :biggrin:

I swapped the i5 for an i3-4160, changed the MB to a (cheaper) Gigabyte H81, changed the PSU to the Antec 380D you recommended and left out the HDD. I did, however, change the Tatsumi to the Gelid Tranquillo Rev.2 as it has good reviews and seems to have a much better name. The build I have now.

I also haven't decided on which case to use yet. The Bitfenix Neos has some bad reviews and so has the FD Core 1000. The Cooler Master N200 or the Corsair 200R seem to be the best options for now, so I'll just ask my dad which he prefers, unless you can recommend any other cases which might be interesting.

Just another small note: I might get him a 25" 2560x1080 screen to go with his new PC. Have you got any idea whether or not the HD 4400 from the i3 will be able to support this resolution? I checked Intel's website and they say they do but a lot of people seem to have problems with it :\

 

[Blain]

Stick with a standard 1920x1200, 24" IPS monitor.

BTW, The Pentium G3220 is a great value when comparing performance per $.

 

[nubki11a]

Stick with a standard 1920x1200, 24" IPS monitor.

BTW, The Pentium G3220 is a great value when comparing performance per $.

Don't you think 2560x1080>1920x1200>1920x1080? I realise that a 25" 2560x1080 display is only as high as a 20" display but in terms of real estate it definitely beats a 1920x1200 24" display right?

The options I have now are:
http://www.iiyama.com/gl_en/products/prolite-b2483hs/ (24" 1920x1080 TN)
http://www.samsung.com/levant/consumer/computers-peripherals/monitors/led-monitor/LS24D590PL/ZN# (24" 1920x1080 IPS)
http://www.samsung.com/levant/consumer/computers-peripherals/monitors/led-monitor/LS27D390HS/ZN (27" 1920x1080 IPS)
http://www.lg.com/nl/monitoren/lg-24EB23TM-ips-monitor (24" 1920x1200 IPS)
http://www.lg.com/nl/monitoren/lg-25UM65-P-ips-monitor (25" 2560x1080 IPS)


As for the Pentium CPU, I'd prefer an i3 with Hyperthreading because he might do some heavy multitasking and we are still well within the budget.

 

[lehtv]

What's the real use of a 2560x1080 display for mere browsing and office apps? It seems more like a monitor built for hardcore multitaskers or 21:9 movie format -philes.

Is either of those 1080p IPS's height adjustable? Whichever is, go with that.

 

[Fallen Kell]

For office apps, email, etc., vertical screen space is much more useful than horizontal. 1920x1200 is much better in that respect than a 2560x1080 or 1920x1080 display. The only reason 1080 is popular is because TV's use it, which means it is cheaper for the manufacturers to make (as they don't need to have separate production lines for panels ultimately being used in PC monitors or TV's).

 

[Fallen Kell]

I know it might be a little late for this, but I always had issues with ITX or mATX systems mainly due to the small case size using tiny 60mm fans which have aweful fan whine. If you really want a quiet system, a Fractal Designs R4 or R5 would be a much better choice in my opinion (edit: I just looked at the specs on the new R5 and it appears to even support mini ITX boards too).

 

[nubki11a]

Alright so if I understand you guys correctly I should stay away from the 2560x1080 screen and go for the 1200 or 1080 screens instead. If that is the case, the 24" 1920x1200 LG screen is the best option right? Unfortunately, the Iiyama is the only one with a height adjustable stand but the Iiyama uses a TN panel, so I guess he'll just have to put the LG on a box or something if that's the one he gets

@Fallen Kell, I showed him the Corsair 200R, CM N200 and some others and he preferred the 200R. Are the Fractal Design R4 or R5 really that much quieter? Because if they are, he will probably want those.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Didn't take as much time to read the earlier posts. Looked at the Carbide 200R.

The first major noise component I could think of would be the Intel stock cooler and its fan. There are probably things one could do with both the cooler and its fan to reduce that noise without increasing temperatures (but more likely reducing them). I personally wouldn't bother with that tedium any more than someone else, since much better options exist for a few more dollars.

I'd replace the cooler with a $30 212 EVO.

Didn't verify, but if the case sidepanel and top are equally designed for 140mm as well as 120's, there are some fans I'd consider. Cougar Vortex, Akasa Viper, Noctua and their iPPC fans, are some I'd look at. There are several other good fans, but you don't want them crippled for airflow any more than you'd want them to be noisy.

Add up the intake fans you plan to use, and assure that the intake CFM is more likely to exceed the exhaust CFM. Duct the rear of the EVO to the case exhaust fan, and I would replace the exhaust fan by something that can run up to 3,000 RPM, but still fairly quiet over the 600 to as much as 2,800 RPM.

Then connect the fans to the available motherboard ports, and use the BIOS and bundled software to define fan profiles over a range of temperatures to include the peak temperature the CPU has ever been observed to reach.

If you don't want to build the heatpipe-to-exhaust duct, buy a ThermalRight blue accordion duct for about $8.00:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/th12fandubl.html

For the TR duct, the use of Spire acoustic foam-rubber layers to muffle any fan noise at the source could be more limited or problematic for the accordion folds or irregular surface:

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556014003.html

[ . . and you get a lot more in a single box than is shown in the CoolerGuys photo.]

Further suggestions:

Use rubber fan mounts to isolate vibration from case-metal.

Thermally control the fans from the motherboard to reduce even the tolerable noise of "toasty running."

Block off unused fan vents with your choice of materials. Foam Art Board (black) is ideal; cardboard is a material for quick evaluation; Lexan more expensive and sound-amplifying.

 

[nubki11a]

Thanks for your reply @BonzaiDuck. For a CPU cooler he's got the Gelid Tranquillo Rev.2, which is supposed to be better than the 212 EVO and in the same pricerange. Unfortunately, the duct and foam pads you linked are not available in my country (NL) and I haven't been able to find any reasonably priced alternatives except for this material: http://www.bax-shop.nl/diffusors/au...-diffusiepaneel-minisize/product-details.html. Which is actually meant for studios but might work inside a PC (its 1cm thick).

I might consider replacing the front fan of the 200R to quieter and more powerful one (creating a positive air pressure inside the case). I checked out the fans you suggested but they were all around €20,- or more which is a bit too much. What do you think about the fans on this website? You can sort them on price in the top right by changing the 'Alfabetisch A-Z' box in the top-right to 'Prijs oplopend'.

 

[Ketchup]

I know that there is a lot of fun in building a PC for the family, but for the activities being performed on it, everyone will probably be better off just buying one online or at a B&M. Almost all of the big names make are very quiet desktop PC, and come with a warranty for the entire PC, instead of worrying about figuring out which part fails (if that arises) and going through that company for replacement. You should have enough left over to buy the SSD. One clone and you'll be done.

 

[nubki11a]

Whilst that was certainly a valid option, we checked out the prices of these systems and their specs and found that a €450,- PC often had an i3-4150T instead of a 4160, no SSD, less RAM, no aftermarket CPU cooler and a cheaper case. Besides, buying such a system wouldn't offer the same control over the quality of the individual components obviously...

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Whilst that was certainly a valid option, we checked out the prices of these systems and their specs and found that a €450,- PC often had an i3-4150T instead of a 4160, no SSD, less RAM, no aftermarket CPU cooler and a cheaper case. Besides, buying such a system wouldn't offer the same control over the quality of the individual components obviously...

Thanks for your reply @BonzaiDuck. For a CPU cooler he's got the Gelid Tranquillo Rev.2, which is supposed to be better than the 212 EVO and in the same pricerange. Unfortunately, the duct and foam pads you linked are not available in my country (NL) and I haven't been able to find any reasonably priced alternatives except for this material: http://www.bax-shop.nl/diffusors/aur...t-details.html. Which is actually meant for studios but might work inside a PC (its 1cm thick).

I might consider replacing the front fan of the 200R to quieter and more powerful one (creating a positive air pressure inside the case). I checked out the fans you suggested but they were all around €20,- or more which is a bit too much. What do you think about the fans on this website? You can sort them on price in the top right by changing the 'Alfabetisch A-Z' box in the top-right to 'Prijs oplopend'.

I can understand your reply to Ketchup79, or I could understand from personal experience how I always have more personal control over the design, parts and other factors.

If you really want to do the ducting -- which is straightforward and easy for a heatpipe-tower-cooler for a cooler like either the EVO or Gelid -- look for an "arts and crafts" supply store in your country. An 18" x 24" panel of foam-art-board here in the US costs about $5. It's a fairly common material for art construction projects, making displays and so on. It is best to use the "special glue" you could find at a hobby shop, but the store selling the art-board will have a similar specialized glue for ~$5.

Other materials can be used for acoustic deadening, but the foam-rubber material of SPIRE, Silverstone or AcousticPC is best.

On the fans, others might disagree, but I look for fans with higher CFM with reasonably low noise ratings so that I can control them thermally within the range up to their top-end RPM. I saw some CoolerMaster fans on that web-page that were rated at 95 CFM. IF you can find 140mm fans and they fit the case vents provided, those would be slightly better as intake fans.

 

[nubki11a]

Thanks for the reply BonzaiDuck. I'll check it out the possibility of ducting with foamboard together with my dad soon. In the meanwhile, I checked out the possibility of padding the interior of the PC with foam as was suggested in this thread. I found 1 m2 of this material for €5,50 which looks like a good deal, could I use that for ducting as well?

For the front intake fan, I found this one: Noiseblocker Blacksilent. I could get the XL-1 version for €8,-, it only has 1000RPM but it still has 69CFM and is rated at 13dBA. Is it a good option or should I stick to the well-known brands?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks for the reply BonzaiDuck. I'll check it out the possibility of ducting with foamboard together with my dad soon. In the meanwhile, I checked out the possibility of padding the interior of the PC with foam as was suggested in this thread. I found 1 m2 of this material for €5,50 which looks like a good deal, could I use that for ducting as well?

For the front intake fan, I found this one: Noiseblocker Blacksilent. I could get the XL-1 version for €8,-, it only has 1000RPM but it still has 69CFM and is rated at 13dBA. Is it a good option or should I stick to the well-known brands?

Generally the ducting improves cooling performance on those heatpipe towers when you especially need it under overclock settings. It also give you an opportunity to muffle the noise. You'd want to muffle the noise if you use a beefier exhaust or CPU fan toward that cooling end.

You can do as you intend about using the acoustic pads in the traditional way. I only discovered that you can limit the application to the source of the noise without gumming up your case interior with the stuff. And I mentioned a way to apply it to case-panels without sticking it all over the case metal -- using a foam-board piece covered with the acoustic rubber and cut to size -- secured with a few dabs of glue or Velcro.

I'd urge anyone -- even for a "budget" family PC -- to choose their fans carefully, pressurize the case, force the exhaust through the hot components or heat exchangers, and thermally-control the fans with the motherboard BIOS and bundled software.

If you use the stock cooler fan, rubber "noise-isolator" fan mounts, fans with a decent RPM/CFM range but low dBA -- you shouldn't need to cover the interior of your case with the rubber and sticky adhesive.

I offer the remedies here and elsewhere to show how the lowest temperatures can be obtained without water-cooling, how a fear of beefier fans in select, strategic placements needn't lead to more noise. The degree to which you want to apply these ideas in a computer that won't be overclocked -- that's a choice all your own.

 

[nubki11a]

Generally the ducting improves cooling performance on those heatpipe towers when you especially need it under overclock settings. It also give you an opportunity to muffle the noise. You'd want to muffle the noise if you use a beefier exhaust or CPU fan toward that cooling end.

You can do as you intend about using the acoustic pads in the traditional way. I only discovered that you can limit the application to the source of the noise without gumming up your case interior with the stuff. And I mentioned a way to apply it to case-panels without sticking it all over the case metal -- using a foam-board piece covered with the acoustic rubber and cut to size -- secured with a few dabs of glue or Velcro.

I'd urge anyone -- even for a "budget" family PC -- to choose their fans carefully, pressurize the case, force the exhaust through the hot components or heat exchangers, and thermally-control the fans with the motherboard BIOS and bundled software.

If you use the stock cooler fan, rubber "noise-isolator" fan mounts, fans with a decent RPM/CFM range but low dBA -- you shouldn't need to cover the interior of your case with the rubber and sticky adhesive.

I offer the remedies here and elsewhere to show how the lowest temperatures can be obtained without water-cooling, how a fear of beefier fans in select, strategic placements needn't lead to more noise. The degree to which you want to apply these ideas in a computer that won't be overclocked -- that's a choice all your own.

Okay so if I understand you correctly, I could try ducting the CPU heatsink/fan with foamboard in an attempt to decrease the noise from the cooler. Do you think this will be needed when using an aftermarket CPU cooler (Gelid Tranquillo Rev.3) on a non-OC'd CPU?

Also, you suggest attaching the pyramid-foam I linked, to foamboard and using that to seal the case?

I'll get some rubber fan mounts and the Noiseblocker Blacksilent XL-1 fan to replace the front-fan with. Then I'll check if sealing the fan with cardboard helps and if it does, I'll use the combination of pyramid-foam with foamboard to seal the fan. Does that sound good to you?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Okay so if I understand you correctly, I could try ducting the CPU heatsink/fan with foamboard in an attempt to decrease the noise from the cooler. Do you think this will be needed when using an aftermarket CPU cooler (Gelid Tranquillo Rev.3) on a non-OC'd CPU?

Also, you suggest attaching the pyramid-foam I linked, to foamboard and using that to seal the case?

I'll get some rubber fan mounts and the Noiseblocker Blacksilent XL-1 fan to replace the front-fan with. Then I'll check if sealing the fan with cardboard helps and if it does, I'll use the combination of pyramid-foam with foamboard to seal the fan. Does that sound good to you?

Like I said -- if there's no issue with the load temperature on the stock-clocked CPU, you don't need to do a lot. But if you do build the simple duct-box between the exhaust fan and rear of the heatpipe-cooler, you can apply layers of the acoustic foam rubber to the outside surfaces of the box to kill noise.

I don't see anything wrong with your choice of materials. If you want to do the ducting, look at my pictures and diagrams in this thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2370973&highlight=gentle+typhoon+117+cfm

A lot to sort through, but everything you'd want to know is in there.

Rubber fan mounts, a choice of good PWM or 3-pin fans, motherboard thermal control of the fans, intake CFM exceeding the exhaust CFM -- that's where you want to apply attention first and foremost.

If you actually do the ducting, you can very likely eliminate the CPU fan itself. But I'd pick an exhaust fan that promises 100+CFM at its top speed. Still, I'd think anything above 75 CFM would do, if the duct is a close, snug fit and doesn't "leak."

So you get "cooler than otherwise" with one less fan, and generally as quiet as anyone would want.