Make Cops Wear Cameras

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Rekonn

Senior member
May 9, 2000
384
0
76
Didnt watch fox but CNN Al Jazeera and MSN all had segments on the militarisation of the police and getting all cops to wear cameras. Was nice to see. All Jazeera had a great segment, they are starting to be my go to channel. They are aggressive in getting the story and sometime its gotten them in trouble.

I think this is an issue that has support across the political spectrum. I don't know about Fox tv, but a quick search turned up several articles from Fox on that topic. Like this good one: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...berals-should-all-worry-about-militarization/

"I want the police to be better armed than the bad guys, but what exactly does that mean today? Apparently it means the Pentagon and Department of Homeland Security equip even the tiniest rural police departments with massive military vehicles, body armor and grenade launchers. The equipment is surplus from the long wars we fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.

To a hammer, everything resembles a nail. SWAT (Special Weapons and Tactics) teams were once used only in emergencies such as riots or robberies where hostages were taken. But today there are more than 50,000 "no-knock raids" a year.

Government always grows, and government is force. Force is always dangerous.
It's not because crime got worse. There is less crime today. Crime peaked around 1990 and is now at a 40-year low. But as politicians keep passing new criminal laws, police find new reasons to deploy their heavy equipment."
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,477
523
126
i said the cops should wear two. maybe they can manipulate somthing and hang it out from their hats and have it face them. like below.


poleplugmountnoleash.png

You might be the biggest idiot of all time.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
I'm all for equipping every officer with a camera (including mic), and making it such that they can't turn it off. Everything recorded with those cameras should be stored with a third party, and should be destroyed after a certain amount of time. If there are no complaints or investigations, after a certain amount of time, there is no value to keeping that footage / audio anymore.

In fact, I wouldn't treat the information as public (ie, subject to FOIA requests etc), I would treat it as information that can be attained through a subpoena or warrant (for a court case, or to substantiate a complaint that was filed etc), but it shouldn't just be available for no reason.

This should be a win for all. Cops knowing everything is recorded will behave better, and citizens knowing everything is recorded will also behave better, and there will be fewer abuses and false claims of abuse. Win for all.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Hell, why don't we make all citizens wear camera too? Never know when a teacher may say something that offends someone. We could know what goes on behind closed doors in the Senate or House of Representatives or Whitehouse or Pentagon.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Hell, why don't we make all citizens wear camera too? Never know when a teacher may say something that offends someone. We could know what goes on behind closed doors in the Senate or House of Representatives or Whitehouse or Pentagon.

Making politicians wear cameras isn't a bad idea.

When a teacher is given a gun and a license to kill, or has the power to create laws that affect 350M people, you might have a point.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Hell, why don't we make all citizens wear camera too? Never know when a teacher may say something that offends someone. We could know what goes on behind closed doors in the Senate or House of Representatives or Whitehouse or Pentagon.
Absolutely. I want my building janitor to wear a camera too because I think he's been stealing my food from the office fridge.
 

Rekonn

Senior member
May 9, 2000
384
0
76
Ok, enough with the lame attempts at humor by being facetious.

Interesting to think about what effect body cameras would have on Suicide by Cop?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9db_1389855116

I think it's good for cops, quicker exoneration. Another plus is closure for the deceased's family, proof of behavior rather than always wondering what really happened. Downside might be an increase in SBC - going out in "blaze of glory" now achieves more infamy because act is recorded and potentially leaked.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
I'm all for equipping every officer with a camera (including mic), and making it such that they can't turn it off. Everything recorded with those cameras should be stored with a third party, and should be destroyed after a certain amount of time. If there are no complaints or investigations, after a certain amount of time, there is no value to keeping that footage / audio anymore.

In fact, I wouldn't treat the information as public (ie, subject to FOIA requests etc), I would treat it as information that can be attained through a subpoena or warrant (for a court case, or to substantiate a complaint that was filed etc), but it shouldn't just be available for no reason.

This should be a win for all. Cops knowing everything is recorded will behave better, and citizens knowing everything is recorded will also behave better, and there will be fewer abuses and false claims of abuse. Win for all.

The highlighted text points out something that is proving to be a problem. And there are additional problems. I found the following column from the Washington Post a few days ago to be very informative:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...oper-policies-to-ensure-theyre-used-properly/

There’s no question that, had the Ferguson, Mo., Police Department mandated that its officers wear body cameras, use dashboard cameras or both, there would be far fewer mysteries about the events leading up to the shooting of Michael Brown. The department apparently had these cameras; it just hadn’t gotten around to using them.

But simply mandating that the cameras be used isn’t enough, as City Lab reports from San Diego:

Here in San Diego, our scandal-plagued police department has begun outfitting some officers with body cameras, and the City Council has approved a plan to roll out hundreds more.

Officers wearing the cameras were present during at least two shootings earlier this year. Yet we’re still not any closer to knowing what happened in those chaotic moments — whether the perpetrators can be easily identified, what kind of interactions the officers had with those present, nothing.

That’s because the department claims the footage, which is captured by devices financed by city taxpayers and worn by officers on the public payroll, aren’t public records. Our newsroom’s request for footage from the shootings under the California Public Records Act was denied.

Once footage becomes part of an investigation, the department says it doesn’t have to release them. SDPD also said during the pilot phase of the camera program that it doesn’t even have to release footage from the cameras after an investigation wraps.

I called the department Friday to see whether it’s updated any policies surrounding the cameras now that more are being doled out and the program is kicking into full swing.

“We have had very positive feedback from the officers who are using them in the field” but “there are no policy changes to the releasing of evidence from body cameras,” SDPD spokesman Kevin Mayer tells me in an email.

This is absurd. The police work for the public. The cameras were purchased with public funds. Government employees are answerable to the public, especially those who have the power to detail, arrest and kill. A police department that refuses to release dash-camera or lapel-camera footage to the public after a controversial incident is basically saying just trust us. But if the optimal goal is for the public to unquestioningly trust the police, there’s no reason to outfit cops with cameras in the first place. (It will be interesting to see if SDPD adopts the same policy when a video clearly exonerates a police officer of false allegations.)

But even when the video is considered public record — or at least is at least released to a criminal defense and attorneys filing civil rights claims during discovery — there is another problem. There have been too many examples in which an officer has “forgotten” to turn on a camera, a camera has coincidentally malfunctioned at a critical time, or video has gone missing. I wrote about this problem in March.

In the College Park case, a campus police surveillance camera was pointed at the area where Jack McKenna was beaten. But there’s no security video of the incident. Campus police say the camera coincidentally malfunctioned at the time of the beating. A local news station reported that the officer in charge of the campus surveillance video system is married to one of the officers later disciplined for McKenna’s beating.

This is not the first time a police camera in Prince George’s County has malfunctioned at a critical time. In 2007 Andrea McCarren, an investigative reporter for the D.C. TV station WJLA, was pulled over by seven Prince George’s County police cars as she and a cameraman followed a county official in pursuit of a story about misuse of public funds. In a subsequent lawsuit, McCarren claimed police roughed her up during the stop, causing a dislocated shoulder and torn rotator cuff. McCarren won a settlement, but she was never able to obtain video of the incident. Prince George’s County officials say all seven dashboard cameras in the police cruisers coincidentally malfunctioned.

Last March, Justice Lee Ann Dauphinot of the Second Court of Appeals in Texas complained in a dissent that when defendants accused of driving while intoxicated in Fort Worth challenge the charges in court, dash-camera video of their arrests is often missing or damaged. “At some point,” Dauphinot wrote, “courts must address the repeated failure of officers to use the recording equipment and their repeated inability to remember whether the car they were driving on patrol or to a DWI stop contained the video equipment the City of Fort Worth has been paying for.”

These aren’t the only examples. In fact, it has previously happened in Ferguson, Mo. Michael Daly reported in the Daily Beast last week that, when Ferguson cops beat Henry Davis after mistakenly arresting him in 2009, a jailhouse camera was supposed to be recording the area where he was beaten. Somehow, the footage of the incident was destroyed.

More recently, on Aug. 11, New Orleans police officer Lisa Lewis claims she was engaged in a struggle with motorist Armond Bennett just before she shot him in the head. New Orleans officers are outfitted with cameras, but there’s no video to verify Lewis’s version of events because she says turned her camera off just before the incident. NOPD Superintendent Ronal Serpas called this a “snafu.” One could understand if a critic were to opt for another word, like coverup.

So in addition to making these videos public record, accessible through public records requests, we also need to ensure that police agencies implement rules requiring officers to actually use the cameras, enforce those rules by disciplining officers when they don’t and ensure that the officers, the agencies that employ them, and prosecutors all take care to preserve footage, even if the footage reflects poorly on officers.

One policy that would go a long way toward achieving those three objectives is what defense attorney Scott Greenfield calls the missing video presumption. Currently, the courts generally treat important video that goes missing as a harmless mistake. They assume no ill will on the part of police. If you discover that the police were or should have been recording an encounter that would vindicate you of criminal charges or prove that the police violated your rights, and that video goes missing, you’re simply out of luck.

Under the missing video presumption, if under the policy agency’s police there should have been video and there isn’t, then the courts will assume that the video corroborates the party opposing the police, be it a criminal defendant or the plaintiff in a civil rights lawsuit. The state could still get over the presumption by presenting other evidence, such as witnesses, medical reports, and so on. But if it’s the police officer’s word against his antagonist’s, there should be video to validate one side or the other, and that video mysteriously goes missing while in police custody, the police should have to pay a penalty in court. Otherwise, there’s just too strong an incentive for vindicating video to be leaked and for incriminating video to disappear.

So, yes, by all means let's place video cameras on every on-duty police officer and in every police vehicle, and let's make sure that these cameras are are "on" for a continuous 24-hour period that cannot be manipulated by the police officers they're assigned to. And just to put some teeth into this policy, let's use the "missing video presumption" outlined above. Finally, to put some real teeth into "must video" policies, any officer with a "malfunctioning" camera during an incident where there's an "incentive" on the part of the officer to not have the camera on should be placed on mandatory unpaid leave the first time it happens, and should be fired for repeat offenses.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
It will help with honest cops. I have seen a large police department near me "lose" a large number of downloaded dash cam videos from their server. So the tech will never be full proof.... imagine a crooked cop getting some dirt on the lens during an incident.

It is a tough situation. On one had you need good cops to do their job and you would like the courts to support the cop in doing his job. But this system as we see as a growing problem is inherent to abuse by cops.

One thing I would like to see if having police departments having to purchase insurance against law suits. Ultimately the only thing that will stop police brutality is to hit the police department in the pocket book. As it is now... even with a clearly crooked cop... the taxpayers are on the hook for these million dollar payouts.
 

TreVader

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2013
2,057
2
0
They are paid employees of the State so the state can put cameras wherever it wants.


I mean if they are truly dishonest people they will still get by with cameras. They'll just turn them off
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
When those cops with cameras take a break from beating blacks on street corners and respond to a rape scene, child abuse call, or domestic assault, or an aided scene when they need to do first aid or cpr etc, should they still be filming?

And when those same cops take a break from violating everyones rights and they are in the hospital interviewing victims of crimes, sitting on a prisoner, or returning paperwork to an individual injured in an accident should they still be filming?

Absolutely.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
The highlighted text points out something that is proving to be a problem. And there are additional problems. I found the following column from the Washington Post a few days ago to be very informative:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...oper-policies-to-ensure-theyre-used-properly/



So, yes, by all means let's place video cameras on every on-duty police officer and in every police vehicle, and let's make sure that these cameras are are "on" for a continuous 24-hour period that cannot be manipulated by the police officers they're assigned to. And just to put some teeth into this policy, let's use the "missing video presumption" outlined above. Finally, to put some real teeth into "must video" policies, any officer with a "malfunctioning" camera during an incident where there's an "incentive" on the part of the officer to not have the camera on should be placed on mandatory unpaid leave the first time it happens, and should be fired for repeat offenses.
Sounds about right to me. The only change I'd make is that the camera doesn't need to be on when there is no reasonable expectation for interaction with the public (i.e. in the washroom, HQ, etc.)
 

Rekonn

Senior member
May 9, 2000
384
0
76
Now this is good news, NYPD is starting a camera pilot program.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/05/n...html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=1

"A total of 60 cameras will be deployed in the coming months in five high-crime police precincts, one in each of the city’s five boroughs, Commissioner William J. Bratton said on Thursday.
...
The New York police will test cameras made by two manufacturers: a one-piece device from Vievu and a two-piece system from Taser International, in which the battery and activation switches are separate from the camera itself. The companies’ cameras were selected, Mr. Bratton said, because they provide “end-to-end” systems that include storage both on-site and remotely.
...
Mr. Bratton said the camera policy had yet to be finalized. He added that depending on the circumstance, officers could be required to record, prohibited from recording, or given the discretion to choose. "
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
I'm willing to bet there's a lot more of those "macho" men serving as cops across the country than some people would like to think.

It is kind of a double edged sword. The very nature of the job attracts those "macho" assholes and then they are given a badge and a gun which multiplies their "macho assholyness" exponentially.

Personally I don't see why every single good cop in the country isn't requesting these cameras as well. If/when someone files a report of abuse when there was none (because they are a good cop) they have video evidence to back up their story. Then again in a lot of departments they will actually intimidate you into not filing a report of real abuse so perhaps those departments would be against it.

Also one camera is plenty, in most cases there are multiple cops on the scene anyway so you already have multiple angles.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
The highlighted text points out something that is proving to be a problem. And there are additional problems. I found the following column from the Washington Post a few days ago to be very informative:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...oper-policies-to-ensure-theyre-used-properly/



So, yes, by all means let's place video cameras on every on-duty police officer and in every police vehicle, and let's make sure that these cameras are are "on" for a continuous 24-hour period that cannot be manipulated by the police officers they're assigned to. And just to put some teeth into this policy, let's use the "missing video presumption" outlined above. Finally, to put some real teeth into "must video" policies, any officer with a "malfunctioning" camera during an incident where there's an "incentive" on the part of the officer to not have the camera on should be placed on mandatory unpaid leave the first time it happens, and should be fired for repeat offenses.

If I have cameras in my house and I beat a police officer up and the video magically gets destroyed, I wonder if I would get charged with a crime for that....

The police think that they are above the law because in most cases they are.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
Hell, why don't we make all citizens wear camera too? Never know when a teacher may say something that offends someone. We could know what goes on behind closed doors in the Senate or House of Representatives or Whitehouse or Pentagon.

Because cops are given a badge, a gun, and have the ability to fuck with you, up to and including wrongfully killing you, and their word is often taken as gospel in a court room despite studies that they lie more than the general public.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
What if they sold their bearcat for 400k? Would they then have enough money to buy cameras?

no, most likely they would give it back the grant distributer and it would distributed to someone else

you cant sell that stuff, you have to give it back, it could eventually be returned to the FED who could sell it

unless the grants laws involving these have changed in the last few years