Magnet Question

Feb 4, 2009
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I should know the answer and I feel embarrassed for not knowing.
If I have two magnets that are positioned to stick together is the force the same as if I had one of those magnets against a similar sized piece of metal would the force (compression force) be the same as the two magnets.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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Force = mass x acceleration

Since nothing in the system is accelerating, acceleration is zero for both cases. Therefore, the force in each system is zero.






Now someone can tell me why my analysis is wrong and you’ll get the correct answer. Glad to help, even if it is at the expense of my own humiliation.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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The metal isn't exerting any force on the magnet. It's the magnet with the attractive magnetic force so two magnets will be harder to separate than a magnet stuck to some metal.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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Now someone can tell me why my analysis is wrong and you’ll get the correct answer. Glad to help, even if it is at the expense of my own humiliation.
OP means magnetic force or magnetic moment. A simple way to measure that would be to get a cheap Gaussmeter or borrow it from someone (ghost hunters use them).
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
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Force = mass x acceleration

Since nothing in the system is accelerating, acceleration is zero for both cases. Therefore, the force in each system is zero.






Now someone can tell me why my analysis is wrong and you’ll get the correct answer. Glad to help, even if it is at the expense of my own humiliation.

I got some neodyium magnets for the kid the other week. When I took them out of the package and finally got them apart they ripped back out of my hands and went flying back into each other hard enough to break and throw chunks of the chrome coating at us.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,576
15,788
136
Okay on the serious end both magnets attract each other, same magnet attracted to metal less than another magnet.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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I got some neodyium magnets for the kid the other week. When I took them out of the package and finally got them apart they ripped back out of my hands and went flying back into each other hard enough to break and throw chunks of the chrome coating at us.
I hope you don't plan to let your kid play with them. They are dangerous and are known to crush bones.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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Ironwing posted:
Force = mass x acceleration

Since nothing in the system is accelerating, acceleration is zero for both cases. Therefore, the force in each system is zero.
[/QUOTE

This equation only applies when the object subject to the force is free to move. It may be easier to understand if you realize that the "Force" it uses is the NET force composed of ALL forces acting on the object. In the case of a magnet stuck onto a metal plate, there is one force (from the magnetic field interaction with the plate) that pulls the magnet against the plate. There is another (exactly equal) force of the plate pushing back against the magnet that prevents the magnet from simply plowing though the plate - the plate is strong enough to prevent this penetration. So the NET force between plate and magnet is zero, and no movement happens.

Now, it you come along and grab the magnet and pull, you are adding a new force to the system. If you pull hard enough (that is, increase the force away from the plate), your new force can exceed the attractive force of magnet to plate, and that DOES result in a NET force AWAY from the plate. It does accelerate away from the plate.

This is exactly the same as the effect of gravity that holds a book on a table. There is a force pushing down on the table because of the interaction of the mass of the book with the gravitational field, and the table in return exerts a matching upward force to prevent the book from falling though it. You can pick up the book by adding a new force upwards. Now, if the supporting surface were not a solid table, but merely a flimsy piece if tissue paper in a frame, that might not be strong enough to prevent the gravitational force on the book from exceedinging the strength of the paper, and the paper would fracture and allow the book to fall through.
 
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