Madeline Albright: Bush 'One Of The Worst Presidencies In History'

[Pabster]

Story here.

I suspect most here know I'm no fan of Albright. But she's entitled to her opinion.

The reality is that history will be the ultimate judge of George W. Bush, not Madeline Albright, or anyone else. He'll either be vindicated or excoriated (I happen to think mostly the former) by events and circumstances many years, perhaps decades, down the road.

 

[ayabe]

Well ultimately it will come down to positives and negatives. If you tally them up Bush loses badly and the one thing that could redeem him, Iraq, won't be completed on his watch.

Kind of like with Reagan, people have completely forgotten about his miserable failures because of the end of the Cold War - which is he given way more credit for than he deserves. But I digress.

Distance also makes the heart grow fonder, so in 20 years people most likely won't hate Bush as much as they do now. But the only thing that will really save him is if - Iraq turns out okay at some point and/or someone even worse comes along.

I would be delighted with the former, not so much the latter.

 

[nageov3t]

in terms of foreign policy, it's hard to argue against, at least in the short term.

as for the lasting effects down the road... I guess we'll see how Iraq turns out.

but as a republican, W's presidency really makes me long for the days of Nixon.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Topic Title: Madeline Albright: Bush 'One Of The Worst Presidencies In History'
Topic Summary: With A Little Pro-Clinton Plug Tossed In

Albright's a bright woman. At least, she got one out of two right. :thumbsup:

 

[Martin]

I think he'll be seen as worse than Nixon, so while maybe not the worst president ever, definitely the worst one in a long, time.

 

[Arkaign]

Yep. We don't need some future history to tell us that Bush has been a simply terrible President.

My ratings of recent Presidents, 0 to 5 (worst to best)

Eisenhower : 5
Kennedy : 4
LBJ : 0
Nixon : 1
Ford : 1
Carter : 1.5
Reagan : 4
Bush I : 1
Clinton : 2.5
Bush 2 : 0.5

Meh.

 

[magomago]

How much did Kennedy actually achieve though? I'm not trashing him at all - but he was killed very early in his presidency!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Martin
I think he'll be seen as worse than Nixon, so while maybe not the worst president ever, definitely the worst one in a long, time.

I was a voting adult during the Nixon administration, and I know first hand that Bush is far worse than Nixon. For a really knowledgeable perspective, ask Nixon's former Whitehouse Counsel, John Dean, the man who warned Nixon there was "a cancer growing on the Presidency."

Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush
by John W. Dean

Synopsis

As the former counsel to President Nixon, Dean was in a position to witness the worst excesses of his administration, widely seen by Americans as having engaged in widespread abuse of power and even criminal activity. In his judgment however, the George W. Bush administration's manipulation of intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq is simply the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the same sort of secretive and undemocratic actions that justify calling the actions of the Bush-Cheney presidency worse than Watergate, the scandal that brought down Nixon.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Story here.

I suspect most here know I'm no fan of Albright. But she's entitled to her opinion.

The reality is that history will be the ultimate judge of George W. Bush, not Madeline Albright, or anyone else. He'll either be vindicated or excoriated (I happen to think mostly the former) by events and circumstances many years, perhaps decades, down the road.

That's what Bush is hoping for anyways. We simpletons just can't understand his vision:roll:...

 

[ProfJohn]

Damn Bush! If he had only sent Colin Powel to give Saddam a basketball the whole war could have been averted...

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Yep. We don't need some future history to tell us that Bush has been a simply terrible President.

My ratings of recent Presidents, 0 to 5 (worst to best)

Eisenhower : 5
Kennedy : 4
LBJ : 0
Nixon : 1
Ford : 1
Carter : 1.5
Reagan : 4
Bush I : 1
Clinton : 2.5
Bush 2 : 0.5

Meh.

LBJ gets a 0 despite all his work with civil rights?

Reagan a 4?

Yikes man.

 

[RedChief]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Yep. We don't need some future history to tell us that Bush has been a simply terrible President.

My ratings of recent Presidents, 0 to 5 (worst to best)

Eisenhower : 5
Kennedy : 4
LBJ : 0
Nixon : 1
Ford : 1
Carter : 1.5
Reagan : 4
Bush I : 1
Clinton : 2.5
Bush 2 : 0.5

Meh.

LBJ gets a 0 despite all his work with civil rights?

Reagan a 4?

Yikes man.

LBJ saw civil rights as pawn to be used. Look at how he blocked and then later watered down civil rights bills during the 50's while he was in the Senate.

But giving Carter more then either Bush or Ford is just wrong. Carter did so many things wrong that the Isreal/Eqypt peace can't make up for it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Martin
I think he'll be seen as worse than Nixon, so while maybe not the worst president ever, definitely the worst one in a long, time.

Nixon wasn't actually that terrible a president in a lot of ways. He ended the Vietnam war, he opened up China, he created the Environmental Protection Agency, etc. A lot of people actually consider him the last president to make any truly progressive changes to America.

I mean on top of all that he had the whole "constitution shredding" problem, but in terms of actual policy there have been many far worse.

Bush on the other hand has all the same constitution shredding, but with laughably terrible other policies to go along with it. I mean at least Nixon had successful policies... what has Bush succeeded at? He's definitely worse then Nixon.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Yep. We don't need some future history to tell us that Bush has been a simply terrible President.

My ratings of recent Presidents, 0 to 5 (worst to best)

Eisenhower : 5
Kennedy : 4
LBJ : 0
Nixon : 1
Ford : 1
Carter : 1.5
Reagan : 4
Bush I : 1
Clinton : 2.5
Bush 2 : 0.5

Meh.

LBJ gets a 0 despite all his work with civil rights?

Reagan a 4?

Yikes man.

LBJ saw civil rights as pawn to be used. Look at how he blocked and then later watered down civil rights bills during the 50's while he was in the Senate.

But giving Carter more then either Bush or Ford is just wrong. Carter did so many things wrong that the Isreal/Eqypt peace can't make up for it.

Well every politician sees every issue in a calculating way, but that doesn't change the fact that he did get it done. In fact he instituted a lot of social programs that did help a lot of people. Sure Vietnam was bad, very bad but his biggest mistake was letting McNamera run the show.

I agree on Ford, he was in an impossible situation and did the best he could.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Damn Bush! If he had only sent Colin Powel to give Saddam a basketball the whole war could have been averted...

Maybe.
Giving Kim Il a signed basketball got the N. Koreans to actually stop making nukes. Of course when Bush jr. became President he instituted the wildly successful policy of making ineffectual threats which resulted in N. Korea not only making more nukes, but actually testing one.
Seems to me basketball diplomacy worked.
And since Saddam was not actually making a nuke when we attacked, Colin Powell could probably have just given him a Pee Wee Herman bobble head doll and the US could have saved a hundred thousand live and trillions of dollars.
Game, set and match to basketball diplomacy.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Yep. We don't need some future history to tell us that Bush has been a simply terrible President.

My ratings of recent Presidents, 0 to 5 (worst to best)

Eisenhower : 5
Kennedy : 4
LBJ : 0
Nixon : 1
Ford : 1
Carter : 1.5
Reagan : 4
Bush I : 1
Clinton : 2.5
Bush 2 : 0.5

Meh.

LBJ gets a 0 despite all his work with civil rights?

Reagan a 4?

Yikes man.

LBJ saw civil rights as pawn to be used. Look at how he blocked and then later watered down civil rights bills during the 50's while he was in the Senate.

But giving Carter more then either Bush or Ford is just wrong. Carter did so many things wrong that the Isreal/Eqypt peace can't make up for it.

That and Vietnam totally nullifies anything positive LBJ may have accomplished.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Damn Bush! If he had only sent Colin Powel to give Saddam a basketball the whole war could have been averted...

Maybe.
Giving Kim Il a signed basketball got the N. Koreans to actually stop making nukes. Of course when Bush jr. became President he instituted the wildly successful policy of making ineffectual threats which resulted in N. Korea not only making more nukes, but actually testing one.
Seems to me basketball diplomacy worked.
And since Saddam was not actually making a nuke when we attacked, Colin Powell could probably have just given him a Pee Wee Herman bobble head doll and the US could have saved a hundred thousand live and trillions of dollars.
Game, set and match to basketball diplomacy.

Except it did no such thing. Kim continued to work on his nuke project in secret after the whole peace deal was made.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Pabster
He'll either be vindicated or excoriated (I happen to think mostly the former) by events and circumstances many years, perhaps decades, down the road.

I am shocked to hear this.

 

[ericlp]

old news.... Bush is the worst ever.... How reagan got a 4 I'll never figure that one out.... But.... Bush takes the cake for the most stupid things ever done by a president. I wonder what billy boy would have gotten if he didn't get a blow job in the white house? Probably a 5....

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: ericlp
old news.... Bush is the worst ever.... How reagan got a 4 I'll never figure that one out.... But.... Bush takes the cake for the most stupid things ever done by a president. I wonder what billy boy would have gotten if he didn't get a blow job in the white house? Probably a 5....

Well, tbh, those are just my personal opinions, make your own list

 

[Craig234]

It's hard to pick whether to respond to the OP, mocking Pabster's sychophantic post and having some fun by saying 'Saddam will not be judged by Pabster, or others, but by history years from now who can better see the longer term effects of his time in office', or whether to aaddress some of the misguided analysis of our other recent presidents.

One basic question in rating any president is deciding how much weight to give the president's qualities, versus how much to give what he got done - often affected by things he had no say over, from whether congress blocked his efforts, to his happening to be president when a big war started by someone else or other event he did not do occurred.

This especially effects Kennedy, who I think may have mastered the office more than anyone since at least FDR (through today). Also in discussing his accomplishements, you have to consider things like *avoiding* nuclear war, which is sort of invisible, as well as what he did that was more visible.

I think I'll just post my own rankings for the momemt, off the top of my head:

Eisenhower: 3.5
JFK: 5
LBJ: 3 (Viet Nam hugely bad, other policies hugely good)
Nixon: 1
Ford: 1
Reaqan: 0.5 (hello, era of the wealthy dominating our politics and economy, huge debt, a return to the covert and illegal support for evil forces around the world)
Bush 41: 1
Clinton: 3.5 (nothing nearly as bad or good as the other 3, LBJ, but very good in balancing the budget, bad in pro-corporate policies, allowing sex scandal)
Bush 43: 0.2

Why 0.1 and not 0 for Bush 43? He could have been worse. He could have completely abandoned policies good for the public, instead of just reducing them. He could have attacked Iran. He could have actually started jailing any political dissidents like Michael Moore and Greg Palast. He could have come out even more strongly for torture. He could have become a public drunk again. He could have invaded Venezuela, instead of just covertly overthrowing their elected leader temporarily. And so on.

We need to save some room on the 0 to 5 scale below even Bush 43, because a president could be worse, though none of the other 42 has been worse.

 

[Farang]

You have to wonder what historical perspective will do to him. Looking back, 100 years from now, the Iraq War will be a very small piece of our history (barring any major policy changes, or the likely possibility of long-term bases being stationed there leading to more conflict). 4,000 troops is not that much if you're reading a history book, and nobody cares about the casualties on the other side. He might be credited for preventing economic collapse after 9/11, but with handling a subpar economy the rest of his term, but nothing was bad enough to give him the Hoover treatment. The high spending will be seen as the continuation of a trend started by previous presidents. The civil rights issues will be largely ignored, considering what previous administrations have got away with. I think his biggest contribution will be the Bush Doctrine, and whether or not it was continued after his presidency, but as far as being the title of "worst" I doubt that because he hasn't been terribly influential, for better or worse, in the grand scheme of things.

 

[SSSnail]

I knew it, it was all Clinton's fault.

 

[Genx87]

That old wind bag was either clueless when N Korea lied to her or was in on it.
Her opinion is worth as much as dried dog poo.

 

[StageLeft]

She's right, but this is not surprising. A lot of people feel this way. A growing number of Americans and already the majority of the rest of the world.

I love this "history will judge him" stuff. It already has. We don't need 50 years to look at a guy who's punch-drunk and started a war based on grossly incorrect evidence, a war that was far greater in length, cost, and loss than he had every dreamed about and for which there was no real plan after the toppling of the country's leader. A guy who's greatest legacy will be a mess of a war, but that aside has been a remarkable failure for domestic measures, all but spinning his wheels for anything positive while almost doubling the country's debt in his 8 years of office. What left is there to judge?