Made in USA preferred in America - AND in China?

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sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
If that were the case we wouldn't have had a nearly $800 Billion trade deficit in 2006 and more foreign cars on the road than you can count. Sorry, I don't buy it.

The reason we have a $800B deficit is because the demand for cheap chinese goods in the US outweighs the demand for expensive US goods in China.

Even though most chinese would buy US quality goods they can't afford it, which is why they just buy the cheap local ones.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Well, the "Made in China" that is sold in China is far worse than the "Made in China" that is sold in the US. I don't blame them.

I saw with my own eyes while I was in Asia for business. The "made in China" goods that were sold in China and Asia countries <<<<<<<<<< than the "made in China" goods that were sold in US.

Rich folks in Asia refer to pay a premium to get goods from the US.

In their "perception" or believe, they think in this order:

1. US made
2. European made
3. Made in China but were imported to US
.
.
.
. Local made
.
.
. Made in China and sold in their own countries
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I've seen companies flat out lie about Made in the USA. A certain automotive company was not supposed to send a certain Ford item to Mexico and it did anyway. It then brought the item back to the USA and did a small, value added service to the item and sold it to Ford as Made in the USA. If US companies can do it to their own stuff, China won't have a problem doing it.
Despicable behavior, and unfortunately probably not uncommon. Especially if a corporation owns both ends it can sell a foreign-made product to itself at near or even below cost, jack up the reported cost of American work to that product, and transform it into an American-made product.

My wife is a Chinese national, living in Chengdu (the capitol of Sichuan province), and the prevailing view there (and I'm sure in all of China) is that Chinese goods are of low quality. American-made products are highly prized in China and often considered status symbols. But American-made products are much more expensive, so most Chinese buy Chinese products.

I saw with my own eyes while I was in Asia for business. The "made in China" goods that were sold in China and Asia countries <<<<<<<<<< than the "made in China" goods that were sold in US.

Rich folks in Asia refer to pay a premium to get goods from the US.

In their "perception" or believe, they think in this order:

1. US made
2. European made
3. Made in China but were imported to US
.
.
.
. Local made
.
.
. Made in China and sold in their own countries
Shira's post made no sense until I saw Svnla's post. Now it's all clear. Sucks for the Chinese, but from a long view it makes sense to export your good stuff. Kinda like how Kansas City has the highest grade seafood (because shipping costs the same per pound no matter the grade) or how medieval farmers would sell their white bread (wheat) and eat their black bread (millet or similar lower grade but higher yield grain) to bring in needed cash.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Despicable behavior, and unfortunately probably not uncommon. Especially if a corporation owns both ends it can sell a foreign-made product to itself at near or even below cost, jack up the reported cost of American work to that product, and transform it into an American-made product.




Shira's post made no sense until I saw Svnla's post. Now it's all clear. Sucks for the Chinese, but from a long view it makes sense to export your good stuff. Kinda like how Kansas City has the highest grade seafood (because shipping costs the same per pound no matter the grade) or how medieval farmers would sell their white bread (wheat) and eat their black bread (millet or similar lower grade but higher yield grain) to bring in needed cash.
Regardless of the shipping cost, the farther you go, the longer it takes, so seafood naturally tastes better closer to the source.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Brief update - I picked up a Buck knife as a Christmas present at a local outdoor warehouse store. Made in America. Also a lot of Made in America socks at Walmart, which make great stocking stuffers.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Brief update - I picked up a Buck knife as a Christmas present at a local outdoor warehouse store. Made in America. Also a lot of Made in America socks at Walmart, which make great stocking stuffers.

As for socks, you can usually find that the same package will have several manufacturing locations (even in Walmart). I always buy the Made in the USA package and why not, it's the same price as those made in Honduras and other places for the exact same item.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Thought this was pretty cool, if true. http://www.appliancemagazine.com/news.php?article=1628714&zone=0&first=1


I don't know the accuracy of this survey, but it's encouraging. The major appliance manufacturing sub-industry was one of the last we lost, and hopefully we can take it back before it's all gone. It was a stone cold bitch to be unable to find a front-loading washing machine made in America.

The report also says this is not the case in Europe, where consumers strongly prefer products made in their own countries.

LOL, we've been suffering your poor workmanship for decades, of course it is not something we want more of.

Meanwhile Brits will buy EU stuff before Chinese crap like you adore so much, in fact, about everything you ever buy is Chinese crap, some of it poorly assembled in the US, that is why Fords is less likely to hurt anyone in a collision and more likely to kill you, because even KIA have better build quality than Fords.

All in all, US made on the sticker and i'll say no, Hitatchi as a brand and i'll buy it before i'll even look at the DeWalt that is just a poor mans excuse for overpriced poor quality tools.

This goes for everything from my shoes to my drill to my snow mobile.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Brief update - I picked up a Buck knife as a Christmas present at a local outdoor warehouse store. Made in America. Also a lot of Made in America socks at Walmart, which make great stocking stuffers.

Good for you, you know i really want to like your posts but since you showed your true self as the conservatism and religion before action man you are it's real fucking hard.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
I just bought a Chinese person born in America.

\just attempting to bridge the cultural gap...
\\thank you, ebay...
\\\and even with free shipping!

update: the UPS site is telling me it's going to be sent in four shipments...:(
 
Last edited:

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,917
825
126
But really, nothing is 100% made in the USA anymore. So this is all moot.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Despicable behavior, and unfortunately probably not uncommon. Especially if a corporation owns both ends it can sell a foreign-made product to itself at near or even below cost, jack up the reported cost of American work to that product, and transform it into an American-made product.

Shira's post made no sense until I saw Svnla's post. Now it's all clear. Sucks for the Chinese, but from a long view it makes sense to export your good stuff. Kinda like how Kansas City has the highest grade seafood (because shipping costs the same per pound no matter the grade) or how medieval farmers would sell their white bread (wheat) and eat their black bread (millet or similar lower grade but higher yield grain) to bring in needed cash.

I've been in China for the past 3 months and I can confirm all of the above. It's very interesting but I've also got some other things to add. The entire situation is very complex and has a bunch of socioeconomic + cultural factors. In fact, I don't even know where to begin.

Some foundation (all pretty general and of course there are exceptions):

- China for the past 60 years has been an atheist society, meaning that they don't really have the principles of morality and ethics that other societies have. When Mao took power 60 years ago he more or less abolished religion and told people to rely only on science and reason. Morality suffered tremendously.

- The Chinese has always been very image-conscious. If you really want to hurt a Chinese, shame them in front of everyone. That is more or less the worst punishment for someone. This also means that if no one shames them, they're ok with what they do (unlike us, where we answer to ourselves ie. we "can't live with ourselves" if we do something that violates our moral code). The Chinese can live with themselves just fine as long as they don't lose face in public.

- Mao's recent rule was one of extreme poverty and man-made famine. Family values instilled in people a very strong desire to get the basics, the material stuff, covered, and to earn as much money as possible for one's own family unit and self. Extrapolate this to the current situation and you'll see that people have become very materialistic and centered around money money money. For the self.

- Being very image-conscious also means you strive to follow everybody and at least be on par with others. The Chinese are largely followers and copiers.

- China has one of the biggest income gaps in the world. Everyday millions of poor Chinese see their peers enjoying materialistic goods that they themselves can never ever hope to earn enough money to buy. Cars. Houses. Luxury items. It is rubbed in their faces day in and day out by all the advertisements, luxury storefronts, malls, and actual examples of wealth that their peers have obtained. Because China has so many people, there are a LOT of wealthy people visible every day.

- The Chinese lack long term business acumen. They don't have the concept of serving the customer's needs and the "customer is always right." They are focused on making money NOW. Make the sale NOW. Now now now now now.

- The population is huge which diminishes the sense of knitness and community. In less populated countries each individual is valued more in terms of repeat business and customer relationships. In China this is not the case. You screw someone now and you're probably not going to see them again, which is fine because there so many other people out there and you can also disappear into the crowd if you needed to.

So now you have the fundamentals. Take all of the above and mix them into a big bag and you've got China's results.

A recent history of extreme poverty and atheism begets a society that is very focused on materialistic pursuits with low ethical standards. Combine this with a very image conscious, follow the Jones' culture, with examples of wealth and opulence constantly paraded in front of you and you've got a very large group of people that will do almost anything to obtain said wealth and image status.

Also note that one US dollar buys a lot in China. We say that the Chinese do unethical things just to save a dollar. Well, one US dollar equals 6.2 RMB which can get you a small meal in China. Saving 3 US dollars a day means possibly getting fed 3 times a day. So yes, it's understandable that people will go to greater lengths to save even one dollar, like adding lead to paint.

SO:

Western brands have a good image so the Chinese obviously would like to be seen with western brands.

Western brands are expensive and Chinese people like to be seen with expensive items because it raises their status among their peers.

Western brands also are perceived to have higher quality because of their business standards - ethical standards, product standards, customer service standards.

Chinese brands are thought to be low quality because the Chinese are painfully aware of their own faults that I outlined above.

Chinese-made Western products are ok because they know that the leadership and quality control are still of Western standards. And it's true. For the most part, a Chinese-made western product is WAY better than an equivalent Chinese-made Chinese product. Western companies simply have a much higher standard of quality. Chinese companies say "good enough" (even if good enough only means the outside packaging is good enough to fool a buyer into spending money NOW) while Western companies will shake their heads and say "hell no."

So you see, Chinese companies have a huge public image issue, especially the ones that actually WANT to make high quality products. It's all an uphill battle for them. They could have their stuff manufactured in the US but then they have to convince people that they were indeed made in the US (the Chinese may think they are lying, because many do lie). They could make their products in China with high quality standards but then they have to battle their own service partners' low quality standards AND convince millions of Chinese that even though they're 100% Chinese, they're of good quality, which historically, has been very very rare.

The good thing is that once they get the ball rolling and have a small to medium following, since the Chinese are followers, it's relatively easy to convince even more people. And this is best done by convincing and marketing to the top earners. Once you earn the respect or promotion of the wealthy, the people below will want to follow.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I've been in China for the past 3 months and I can confirm all of the above. It's very interesting but I've also got some other things to add. The entire situation is very complex and has a bunch of socioeconomic + cultural factors. In fact, I don't even know where to begin.

Some foundation (all pretty general and of course there are exceptions):

- China for the past 60 years has been an atheist society, meaning that they don't really have the principles of morality and ethics that other societies have. When Mao took power 60 years ago he more or less abolished religion and told people to rely only on science and reason. Morality suffered tremendously.

- The Chinese has always been very image-conscious. If you really want to hurt a Chinese, shame them in front of everyone. That is more or less the worst punishment for someone. This also means that if no one shames them, they're ok with what they do (unlike us, where we answer to ourselves ie. we "can't live with ourselves" if we do something that violates our moral code). The Chinese can live with themselves just fine as long as they don't lose face in public.

- Mao's recent rule was one of extreme poverty and man-made famine. Family values instilled in people a very strong desire to get the basics, the material stuff, covered, and to earn as much money as possible for one's own family unit and self. Extrapolate this to the current situation and you'll see that people have become very materialistic and centered around money money money. For the self.

- Being very image-conscious also means you strive to follow everybody and at least be on par with others. The Chinese are largely followers and copiers.

- China has one of the biggest income gaps in the world. Everyday millions of poor Chinese see their peers enjoying materialistic goods that they themselves can never ever hope to earn enough money to buy. Cars. Houses. Luxury items. It is rubbed in their faces day in and day out by all the advertisements, luxury storefronts, malls, and actual examples of wealth that their peers have obtained. Because China has so many people, there are a LOT of wealthy people visible every day.

- The Chinese lack long term business acumen. They don't have the concept of serving the customer's needs and the "customer is always right." They are focused on making money NOW. Make the sale NOW. Now now now now now.

- The population is huge which diminishes the sense of knitness and community. In less populated countries each individual is valued more in terms of repeat business and customer relationships. In China this is not the case. You screw someone now and you're probably not going to see them again, which is fine because there so many other people out there and you can also disappear into the crowd if you needed to.

So now you have the fundamentals. Take all of the above and mix them into a big bag and you've got China's results.

A recent history of extreme poverty and atheism begets a society that is very focused on materialistic pursuits with low ethical standards. Combine this with a very image conscious, follow the Jones' culture, with examples of wealth and opulence constantly paraded in front of you and you've got a very large group of people that will do almost anything to obtain said wealth and image status.

Also note that one US dollar buys a lot in China. We say that the Chinese do unethical things just to save a dollar. Well, one US dollar equals 6.2 RMB which can get you a small meal in China. Saving 3 US dollars a day means possibly getting fed 3 times a day. So yes, it's understandable that people will go to greater lengths to save even one dollar, like adding lead to paint.

SO:

Western brands have a good image so the Chinese obviously would like to be seen with western brands.

Western brands are expensive and Chinese people like to be seen with expensive items because it raises their status among their peers.

Western brands also are perceived to have higher quality because of their business standards - ethical standards, product standards, customer service standards.

Chinese brands are thought to be low quality because the Chinese are painfully aware of their own faults that I outlined above.

Chinese-made Western products are ok because they know that the leadership and quality control are still of Western standards. And it's true. For the most part, a Chinese-made western product is WAY better than an equivalent Chinese-made Chinese product. Western companies simply have a much higher standard of quality. Chinese companies say "good enough" (even if good enough only means the outside packaging is good enough to fool a buyer into spending money NOW) while Western companies will shake their heads and say "hell no."

So you see, Chinese companies have a huge public image issue, especially the ones that actually WANT to make high quality products. It's all an uphill battle for them. They could have their stuff manufactured in the US but then they have to convince people that they were indeed made in the US (the Chinese may think they are lying, because many do lie). They could make their products in China with high quality standards but then they have to battle their own service partners' low quality standards AND convince millions of Chinese that even though they're 100% Chinese, they're of good quality, which historically, has been very very rare.

The good thing is that once they get the ball rolling and have a small to medium following, since the Chinese are followers, it's relatively easy to convince even more people. And this is best done by convincing and marketing to the top earners. Once you earn the respect or promotion of the wealthy, the people below will want to follow.
Excellent insights, thanks!

The bet of the pro-opening China crowd is that capitalism necessarily breeds freedom. We haven't quite seen that yet - although China certainly has made some significant strides in individual freedom - but I've actually increased faith (not hard from zero) over the last four decades that hundreds of millions of subsistence-level Chinese will rise up and demand more freedom and increased living standards.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,117
1,023
126
Not surprising. I saw a documentary showing actual Chinese pedestrians giving interview that they prefer KFC because it's 'healthy.'

How is KFC 'healthy'? It's because Chinese know that an American company WILL serve real chicken, real cuts, and quality parts. Compare that to mystery chicken they would get at their own Chinese restaurant.