Mad skill with black pencils and color pencils

[HumblePie]

I don't think anyone outside of Mayne says this doesn't take skill or talent, just that it does not make one an amazing artist. I have a firm grasp of the English language and far above average typing skills, that doesn't mean I am a good writer. I could copy all of Shakespeare verbatim, and in a very impressive amount of time. That is essentially what this guy is doing.

HAHAHAHA!!!

Well put.

The level of technical ability required is more than copying Shakespear, but that comment is quite apropos.

Now if he was doing that photo-realism with a media that doesn't lend itself well to such things... that would be a good amount of talent. Because the ability to figure out something that someone else hasn't shows talent.

Also, I've shown some of my previous art I did as a kid. Heck have some of it on photobucket still.

For example I did this with free-hand paint over a "crackled" paint background on the side of a computer case decades ago.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd247/viscar/Creative stuff/IMG_0302.jpg

I stole the image from this.

http://cyberwolfanime.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/gambar-bleach-19.jpg

I could have put a bit more effort into it to make it perfectly match the original, but I liked the slight changes I made on purpose for media I was working on.

I call what I did cool. I don't call it art.

For reference, I did this on the other side.

http://s225.photobucket.com/user/viscar/media/Creative stuff/IMG_0298.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

Again the image I lifted from the original artist. What makes it cool is I did that "etching" free-hand with a dremel cutoff wheel only. Which is basically using only this.

http://static.flickr.com/56/190501611_0954883283.jpg?v=0

 

[Markbnj]

I call what I did cool. I don't call it art.

I call that art, for sure. I also don't think the analogy to copying Shakespeare holds up. Whether you classify it as worthy art or not, executing that drawing freehand takes a considerable amount of technical skill, whereas copying text requires no technical skill at all. What the drawing didn't require much of was creativity, so perhaps that is the missing key ingredient for you. The word 'talent' is probably not precise enough in this context. I think everyone would agree it takes talent to produce drawn work like that.

 

[purbeast0]

I don't think anyone outside of Mayne says this doesn't take skill or talent, just that it does not make one an amazing artist. I have a firm grasp of the English language and far above average typing skills, that doesn't mean I am a good writer. I could copy all of Shakespeare verbatim, and in a very impressive amount of time. That is essentially what this guy is doing.

that is a terrible analogy. anyone who can type could copy shakespeare verbatim. it's still shakespeare's words regardless of you typing them up.

taking something that is generated from a camera and then generating something near flawless to it from hand is completely different and takes a ton of skill to actually do it. to say otherwise is just being dense.

both of you guys sound a lot like this guy...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36514591&postcount=247

 

[smackababy]

I call that art, for sure. I also don't think the analogy to copying Shakespeare holds up. Whether you classify it as worthy art or not, executing that drawing freehand takes a considerable amount of technical skill, whereas copying text requires no technical skill at all. What the drawing didn't require much of was creativity, so perhaps that is the missing key ingredient for you. The word 'talent' is probably not precise enough in this context. I think everyone would agree it takes talent to produce drawn work like that.

How about playing "Stairway to Heaven" then? It takes a lot of skill to replicate the notes Jimmy Page hits on the guitar. It takes a lot more than that to write the notes though. Nobody (except Mayne) is saying he lacks skill, just that he hasn't done anything except copy a picture, using a medium that lends itself very well to the subjects.

 

[purbeast0]

How about playing "Stairway to Heaven" then? It takes a lot of skill to replicate the notes Jimmy Page hits on the guitar. It takes a lot more than that to write the notes though. Nobody (except Mayne) is saying he lacks skill, just that he hasn't done anything except copy a picture, using a medium that lends itself very well to the subjects.

that is still different because they are both on guitar.

that is like the guy in the OP taking a picture with a camera that resembled the original picture he used to draw.

 

[classy]

only on atot will people say something like this takes no talent or skill to do...

LOL

That is so true. This guy has uber talent.

 

[Markbnj]

How about playing "Stairway to Heaven" then? It takes a lot of skill to replicate the notes Jimmy Page hits on the guitar. It takes a lot more than that to write the notes though. Nobody (except Mayne) is saying he lacks skill, just that he hasn't done anything except copy a picture, using a medium that lends itself very well to the subjects.

That's why I said 'talent' isn't a good enough word. Certain things, like drawing and playing the guitar, are not simply about motor skills. It takes a certain innate ability. I don't think anyone can learn to replicate "Stairway" on a guitar, and I don't think just anyone could learn to draw like this guy. But I do agree that playing a song or drawing a copy of a picture is not creating new art. But if the idea of performance art is valid then it might fall into that category.

 

[HumblePie]

I call that art, for sure. I also don't think the analogy to copying Shakespeare holds up. Whether you classify it as worthy art or not, executing that drawing freehand takes a considerable amount of technical skill, whereas copying text requires no technical skill at all. What the drawing didn't require much of was creativity, so perhaps that is the missing key ingredient for you. The word 'talent' is probably not precise enough in this context. I think everyone would agree it takes talent to produce drawn work like that.

The Shakespeare comment was an extreme. Also, not everyone can copy Shakespeare. Not everyone is literate or can even hold a pen to do it. I'm being quite serious. The level of technical skill required to copy a book is FAR lower than what is required to do a photo realistic drawing. There is no denying that. The difference is in recognizing that neither require something that can't be done by anyone that is willing to put in the time and effort.

 

[HumblePie]

One other thing to note, he's not doing those drawings "free-hand" at all. He's using grid paper and certain artistic "copying" techniques that make the sort of thing he is doing relatively easy.

 

[smackababy]

That's why I said 'talent' isn't a good enough word. Certain things, like drawing and playing the guitar, are not simply about motor skills. It takes a certain innate ability. I don't think anyone can learn to replicate "Stairway" on a guitar, and I don't think just anyone could learn to draw like this guy. But I do agree that playing a song or drawing a copy of a picture is not creating new art. But if the idea of performance art is valid then it might fall into that category.

I can play guitar, and can tell you, literally every person with a fully functioning brain can learn to play with enough practice. Same as typing. It is all motor skills. Same with piano. There is a saying among musicians I grew up with that guitar players make better musicians than piano players, even if piano players learn more "musician type skills" like site reading. Learning piano seems is a strict "copy this guy's work" and "read this piece of music and play it" feat. It is similar to copying Shakespeare on a keyboard in DVORAK. It takes nothing but muscle memory and the ability to read the work to copy from.

This guy has great technical skill, even if he is using grid paper (I don't see why he shouldn't use tools available to him). He translates depth very well (something a lot of people can't do).

 

[Markbnj]

I can play guitar, and can tell you, literally every person with a fully functioning brain can learn to play with enough practice. Same as typing. It is all motor skills. Same with piano. There is a saying among musicians I grew up with that guitar players make better musicians than piano players, even if piano players learn more "musician type skills" like site reading. Learning piano seems is a strict "copy this guy's work" and "read this piece of music and play it" feat. It is similar to copying Shakespeare on a keyboard in DVORAK. It takes nothing but muscle memory and the ability to read the work to copy from.

This guy has great technical skill, even if he is using grid paper (I don't see why he shouldn't use tools available to him). He translates depth very well (something a lot of people can't do).

I play too, for 30 years, and I will respectfully disagree with you. Put whatever label on it you like, and who knows what set of skills "talent" equates to in this case, but not everyone can learn to play the guitar like that, regardless of how hard they work. In the same way not everyone is born equipped to be a champion athlete or a great singer.

 

[Rakehellion]

You have to be a total aspie to be able to draw like that.

 

[smackababy]

I play too, for 30 years, and I will respectfully disagree with you. Put whatever label on it you like, and who knows what set of skills "talent" equates to in this case, but not everyone can learn to play the guitar like that, regardless of how hard they work. In the same way not everyone is born equipped to be a champion athlete or a great singer.

Athletes and singers get an unfair comparison. Both must be born with genetic gifts. Singers like Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey are special, not because they are great singers, but because they were born with a very special vocal octave range. Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, and Lebron James aren't champion athletes because they were born with athletic gifts though, they are also able to see the game on an entirely different leve. Just to make it to the NBA means you have an amazing athletic gift you were born with, but to be that elite level, you need to be able a genius. Michael Jordan is Mozart, almost everyone else is that guy covering Led Zeppelin.

Playing an instrument is literally only mechanical skill. You don't require a special genetic gift, like you do to play basketball or football or sing. If you have fingers and functioning muscles, you can play guitar with enough practice. You might only be able to play cover songs for the rest of your life, but you can still "play" well enough to impress people. Drawing like this is the same. It likely took him a lot of time to hone his technical drawing abilities, but it doesn't say much for his artistic talent.

 

[Rakehellion]

Playing an instrument is literally only mechanical skill.

Unless you know how to write music or play by ear or other things musicians do.

But by that logic, singing and playing basketball are only mechanical skill.

 

[HumblePie]

To put another comparison. Had a guy in my AP art class do his submittable work with nothing but photo realistic pictures like these on the majority of his work. Anything where the teacher made him use his "brain" to work outside the box to come up with art looked like crap. Which was also submitted. He got I think a 2 on the AP when it came back. Another guy I knew did nothing but his own style comic book panel art for his focus, but did very well in his other abstract art projects. Not the best, but decent. He got a 4. I got a 5, but that's a different story

Just saying photo realistic "copying" art isn't really valued by artists as good art. As an artist, it shows me he has a good deal of patience and can put in lots of effort, but doesn't tell me how good of an artist he is or how skilled he really is.

Just like if I saw a guy throwing 100 free throws in a row and make them all, or better yet, watch some guy sink 1000 3 pointers blind folded doesn't tell me he's a great basketball player at all. All it tells me is that he has mastered the mechanical motions needed to make that shot every single time.

 

[SP33Demon]

Fantastic talent. Reminds me of one of my fav artists Jay Anacleto.

 

[Bacstar]

Someone similar I stumbled on when cruising the web:

http://theportraitart.com/

Timelapse video of the guy doing his thing. Pretty amazing stuff and the music just seems so appropriate.

 

[smackababy]

Unless you know how to write music or play by ear or other things musicians do.

But by that logic, singing and playing basketball are only mechanical skill.

Why am I not surprised 'medium rare' could only get that sentence out of my post.

The act of playing an instrument is a mechanical skill, and nothing else.

 

[HumblePie]

Unless you know how to write music or play by ear or other things musicians do.

But by that logic, singing and playing basketball are only mechanical skill.

No, they aren't. Dribbling a ball is a mechanic skill. Shooting a ball is a mechanical skill. Passing is a mechanical skill. Putting it all together and knowing when to do what where is NOT a mechanical skill. The essence of playing a sport is more than the sum of knowing the basic mechanical drill skills. It's what separates the great players for the rest.

Singing is different, but anyone CAN be trained to hit a note or two properly. Unfrotunately, not everyone can be training to hit every note, with timing and proper pitch with their voices properly. That combination goes beyond mechanical skill.

 

[HumblePie]

Someone similar I stumbled on when cruising the web:

http://theportraitart.com/

Timelapse video of the guy doing his thing. Pretty amazing stuff and the music just seems so appropriate.

That one is much better as he isn't going quite for photo realism and is completely free hand. You can see the slightly off proportions and his artistic selections in his blending process. Far more impressed with that than the OPs link. Which I had my old sketch pad. Lost it somewhere. I used to have a habit of drawing everyone in my classes just to stay awake. Got used to doing lots of freehand that way on moving subjects. That is something that not many artists can do and still have it look like something photo realistic.

 

[silverpig]

Wtf do you think results in talent? Practice, practice, practice.

No, that's how you get to Carnegie Hall.

 

[SearchMaster]

Technical ability is not the same as artistic ability.
...
I am not saying this guy isn't a great artist, because he might very well be. All I can comment on is that he has fantastic technical ability. It is likely he has devoted a lot of time to his craft.

I think we're saying the same thing. The only point on which we differ is that your contention seems to be that "anyone" can rise to his level of technical ability with enough practice and I disagree with that. Same thing with playing instruments or singing - yes, most people (with enough practice) can become proficient enough at the technical side of the task to be competent or even good, but not masterful.

 

[TridenT]

I know a girl who does stuff like this in her spare time. That said, she also does other pencil/graphite based art. (Which isn't solely copying an image by hand like the above)

If you put in the time, you can do this too. Watch the time elapsed videos on youtube of people doing this and you'll see it just takes assloads of time.

 

[smackababy]

I think we're saying the same thing. The only point on which we differ is that your contention seems to be that "anyone" can rise to his level of technical ability with enough practice and I disagree with that. Same thing with playing instruments or singing - yes, most people (with enough practice) can become proficient enough at the technical side of the task to be competent or even good, but not masterful.

That is where we disagree then. With enough practice, I am a firm believer, any normal function person can achieve tasks that don't require genetic "gifts". Practice enough power chords and arpeggio sweep and you can play guitar like the best of them. Drawing copies of something is the same thing. You remove the creativity required and it comes down to technical skills, which anyone can master.

The real kicker is, even if they do master the technical skills, they will never be truly great, as they can't create new skills.

 

[HumblePie]

I think we're saying the same thing. The only point on which we differ is that your contention seems to be that "anyone" can rise to his level of technical ability with enough practice and I disagree with that. Same thing with playing instruments or singing - yes, most people (with enough practice) can become proficient enough at the technical side of the task to be competent or even good, but not masterful.

What the person doing in the OP is anything but "masterful" and would receive average marks from any good art competition. Hence why were saying the skill required to achieve what he is doing isn't all that hard in terms of technical ability for creating art.