Mach 5 + ~300 passengers = ZERO EMISSION!

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
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The A2

A proposed hydrogen-powered hypersonic airliner could change all that. The plane is Reaction Engines's A2 concept, a Mach-5 (3,400mph) craft for 300 passengers funded in part by the European Union's Long-Term Advanced Propulsion Concepts and Technologies project (Lapcat). Lapcat wants an airliner that can fly from Brussels to Sydney in less than four hours. If built, the A2 will do just that?without producing a trace of carbon emissions.

Even though still a concept, but it's fast becoming a reality. The engine is ready.

Size comparison
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
we can't perfect a hydrogen car. lets do that first before we fly people thousands of miles 40000feet in the air.
 

tasmanian

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2006
3,811
1
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Any reason why the USA is no longer leading when it comes to things like these?

You cant make money off something that is virtually free. You can however on oil.
 

Bootprint

Diamond Member
Jan 11, 2002
9,847
0
0
Shouldn't that be Zero local emissions?

Still need to create and move that H2 and O2.

 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Any reason why the USA is no longer leading when it comes to things like these?

things like made up fake-never-going-to-exist things like these?
 

mordantmonkey

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2004
3,075
5
0
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
we can't perfect a hydrogen car. lets do that first before we fly people thousands of miles 40000feet in the air.

more to do with the delivery infrastructure. would be much easier to implement hydrogen refueling at a handful of international airports than it tens of thousands of gas stations sprinkled across the country.

it's not like they're reinventing the wing.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Still back to square one though:
The biggest challenge: manufacturing hydrogen fuel on a large scale without emitting carbon in the process. Indeed, Varvill is hesitant to pitch his plane as a truly green machine because he believes carbon-free hydrogen production is still a long way off. If a viable hydrogen economy comes to pass, though, the A2 could very well be the new airliner of choice.
Great, so we'll have 200 million devices ready to burn hydrogen, but still no way to produce it efficiently.

Still, it's good to do this research now, rather than when we really need it.


It says that the engine uses liquid helium to cool the incoming air - and there's a helium shortage right now. Hopefully there'll be some solution to that in the future.
There also seems like there's a lot that could go wrong in this engine. If something doesn't switch right, or if one coolant pump goes bad, you've got superheated air coming in and melting your engine. Keeping liquid helium onboard will also require really good insulation, or else there might be thick frost forming on the plane's exterior, like what you see on liquid-fueled launch vehicles.
 

PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
12,363
475
126
...Do they even have a single working engine? Their site doesn't seem to say very much except 'look at our 3D drawings of planes we could put our engines on'. Why do people always say 'zero emission' when the electricity used to get the hydrogen is probably generated from oil or coal fired plants?

What were the reasons for not having widespread supersonic transport? Was it that people diddn't want the sonic booms around or jumbo jets were way more economical?

 

NL5

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2003
3,286
12
81
Originally posted by: tasmanian
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Any reason why the USA is no longer leading when it comes to things like these?

You cant make money off something that is virtually free. You can however on oil.

Are you implying that Hydrogen is virtually free?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
i wouldnt ride that i would be scared of it breaking up due to heat from those high speeds.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,393
8,552
126
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Any reason why the USA is no longer leading when it comes to things like these?

you mean large SSTs? no one can figure out how to make money on them.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Great. Since we will all be flying in zero emission planes and driving zero emission hydrogen cars I can go on burning thru gasoline like there's like there's no tomorrow.

This message brought to you by George Bush and the American Oil Industry.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: PottedMeat
What were the reasons for not having widespread supersonic transport? Was it that people diddn't want the sonic booms around or jumbo jets were way more economical?
Both - I think the Concorde could only exceed Mach 1 while over the Atlantic. Maintenance and initial purchase price of 747's is probably much cheaper, too.



Originally posted by: Citrix
i wouldnt ride that i would be scared of it breaking up due to heat from those high speeds.
The SR-71 Blackbird can go past Mach 3, and it doesn't break up right away. :)
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
Originally posted by: PottedMeat
...Do they even have a single working engine? Their site doesn't seem to say very much except 'look at our 3D drawings of planes we could put our engines on'. Why do people always say 'zero emission' when the electricity used to get the hydrogen is probably generated from oil or coal fired plants?

What were the reasons for not having widespread supersonic transport? Was it that people diddn't want the sonic booms around or jumbo jets were way more economical?

They kinda explained how the engine works on page 2 of the article.

For takeoff, landing and subsonic flight, the A2's Scimitar engine sends intake air through a bypass duct [1] and into a turbine [2], like a standard jet engine. After reaching supersonic speed, though, the engine redirects air from the bypass duct through the engine core [3] for flight up to Mach 5. Like a ramjet, the Scimitar works by taking in air from the atmosphere at high speeds and funneling (or "ramming") it until it's intensely compressed. At this point, the extremely hot air mixes with fuel and causes ignition. But the Scimitar one-ups traditional ramjet design by adding a turbine [4] that compresses the incoming air even further. Ramjets usually can't use turbines because the incoming air is so hot that it will melt the turbine blades. The Scimitar solves that problem by first cooling the air in a heat exchanger [5] using gaseous helium.
The A2 runs on liquid hydrogen, which produces water vapor and a small amount of nitrous oxide as exhaust and is energy-dense enough to fly this plane all the way from Brussels to Sydney. To be truly green, however, the A2 must use hydrogen produced in a carbon-neutral process such as electrolysis powered by a nuclear, solar or biofueled power plant.

You'll have to look at the actual diagram to see the noted components.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,943
44,805
136
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Any reason why the USA is no longer leading when it comes to things like these?

you mean large SSTs? no one can figure out how to make money on them.

That's why the Boeing 2707 was scrapped.
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
3
71
Now where is a beast that size supposed to land and take off. The A380 is limited and this is bigger.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Any reason why the USA is no longer leading when it comes to things like these?

things like made up fake-never-going-to-exist things like these?

:roll: Gee, and all this time I thought that the Space Shuttle and countless other rockets ran on hydrogen. Little did I know that this is impossible.

Good thing we scrapped the X-plane projects...Hollywood was having more and more trouble faking the results, plus they were still demanding more money to keep the moon landing set secret.
 

OdiN

Banned
Mar 1, 2000
16,430
3
0
So with all this Hydrogen powered stuff...won't we just deplete the atmosphere of Hydrogen and kill ourselves? Just sayin.