Macedonia and Greece: Clashes in Athens over neighbour's name change

[UglyCasanova]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46938371

Protesters have clashed with police in the Greek capital Athens at a big rally to oppose the government's deal with Macedonia on changing its name.​

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Police fired tear gas at some of those attending a protest which attracted tens of thousands to the city.​

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The deal, which is yet to be approved, designates Greece's northern neighbour as Republic of North Macedonia.​

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The name Macedonia is sensitive for many Greeks who say it implies a claim on the Greek province of the same name.​

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Years of wrangling finally brought an agreement last June between Greece's left-wing Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and his Macedonian counterpart.​

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A vote on the deal, which aims to end a 28-year row between the nations, is set to take place in the Greek parliament this week.​

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What’s y’alls opinion on this? Very important to the Greeks it seems but cmon. The current official name is Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia but they want to change to Republic of North Macedonia. That should be fine imo. The area is in what used to be Macedonia, even if the Greeks argue that it’s part of their history. Hell the Greece now isn’t Ancient Greece so the arguement seems..I dunno silly. Anybody know more about this issue that has any insight?

 

[Moonbeam]

I like Massadonkeysville.

 

[Meghan54]

Let's see.....I don't live there, don't want to visit......don't have much concern about it, unlike the OP.....again.

 

[pmv]

The Greeks are a bit weird about Macedonia. I don't really understand it either. Perhaps it goes back to Alexander the Great? I mean, he was Macedonian but was at one point quite happy to elide the difference for political purposes. And contemporary nationalistic Greeks - including Greek-Americans apparently - are very keen to claim him as one of their own, even though he clearly wasn't Greek.

I don't know how attitudes to the Macedonian issue relate to other political divisions in Greece. Wouldn't surprise me if left and right alike were equally touchy about it.

But to be fair, loads of countries have sensitivities with regard to anything that stirs up anxiety about a bit of them breaking away. Spain with Catalonia, for example. Turkey and the Kurds. The US itself doesn't seem terribly keen on the concept of secession. And our Brexit-supporting 'Unionists' seem to have made a rod for their own back with their historical determination to hang on to a corner of Ireland.

Alex the G doesn't seem like someone I'd want in my gang anyway - as far as I can see, all he was Great at was waging war. He massacred populations of cities that refused to surrender - surely a war-crime by today's standards - his own soldiers may have poisoned him because he refused to ever stop fighting and let them go home, and his 'empire' collapsed almost instantly after his death. All he achieved was to smash up the previously stable and richly multi-cultural empire of the Persians and replace it with a patchwork mess. Fortunately today the West no longer fights wars in that region without any clear idea of what to put in place afterwards.

 

[K1052]

The Greeks are a bit weird about Macedonia. I don't really understand it either.

Yes, they are. The nationalists get very aggravated about the use of the name for something that isn't part of Greece is the limit of my understanding of the problem.

 

[K1052]

Let's see.....I don't live there, don't want to visit......don't have much concern about it, unlike the OP.....again.

Greece is actually a pretty amazing place to visit.

 

[brycejones]

Yes, they are. The nationalists get very aggravated about the use of the name for something that isn't part of Greece is the limit of my understanding of the problem.

Reason #1038392 why nationalism is not a good thing.

 

[Greenman]

Let's see.....I don't live there, don't want to visit......don't have much concern about it, unlike the OP.....again.

So you figured that since you had nothing to say you'd just be an asshole. I get that.

I find the Greeks interesting. They had it going on for a very long time, and now it seems like they're just costing along looking for the easy money.

 

[Jaskalas]

The Greeks are a bit weird about Macedonia. I don't really understand it either. Perhaps it goes back to Alexander the Great? I mean, he was Macedonian...

Well that makes sense. It's a !@#$ waving contest and the Greeks want to have the biggest !@#$s.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Let's see.....I don't live there, don't want to visit......don't have much concern about it, unlike the OP.....again.

You should be concerned, considering that the region is the historical battleground of numerous clashes between the Christian and Muslim worlds, WW1 started in the Balkans over similar sentiments, the Balkans saw the rise of fascism and genocide during the civil war there and the Russians are actively promoting this particular clash to further undermine Merkel and the EU.

Yes, they are. The nationalists get very aggravated about the use of the name for something that isn't part of Greece is the limit of my understanding of the problem.

It’s not nationalism, its more a question of ethnic or cultural identity. The numerous wars of the Balkans have created a situation where the national boundaries are largely arbitrary, with different ethnic factions all maneuvering to restore the map of a world that no longer exists.

Reason #1038392 why nationalism is not a good thing.

During the Kosovo peacekeeping operations, we had to refer to Macedonia as FYROM so as not to offend the Greek soldiers who manned the checkpoints from Skopje to Pristina, and the Greeks had more sympathy with the Serbs than the Muslim Albanian minority seeking independence. Mujadeen fighters were present in the conflict, yet American and NATO forced were actively protecting them from Serbian Christians. This goes well beyond nationalism.

 

[Jhhnn]

You should be concerned, considering that the region is the historical battleground of numerous clashes between the Christian and Muslim worlds, WW1 started in the Balkans over similar sentiments, the Balkans saw the rise of fascism and genocide during the civil war there and the Russians are actively promoting this particular clash to further undermine Merkel and the EU.

It’s not nationalism, its more a question of ethnic or cultural identity. The numerous wars of the Balkans have created a situation where the national boundaries are largely arbitrary, with different ethnic factions all maneuvering to restore the map of a world that no longer exists.

During the Kosovo peacekeeping operations, we had to refer to Macedonia as FYROM so as not to offend the Greek soldiers who manned the checkpoints from Skopje to Pristina, and the Greeks had more sympathy with the Serbs than the Muslim Albanian minority seeking independence. Mujadeen fighters were present in the conflict, yet American and NATO forced were actively protecting them from Serbian Christians. This goes well beyond nationalism.

Maybe that's because because good Christian Serbians were massacring their Muslim neighbors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

 

[Starbuck1975]

Maybe that's because because good Christian Serbians were massacring their Muslim neighbors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

Indeed they did, although the Muslims and Croats did some pretty horrific things as well, with Russia in the shadows. The rise of Putin goes straight through the Balkans. I refer you to the Pristina airfield incident.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes, they are. The nationalists get very aggravated about the use of the name for something that isn't part of Greece is the limit of my understanding of the problem.

I met one Greek dude several years ago that went bonkers as soon as someone just mentioned Macedonia. First time I had met the guy. I still don't get it.

 

[K1052]

I met one Greek dude several years ago that went bonkers as soon as someone just mentioned Macedonia. First time I had met the guy. I still don't get it.

I'm familiar with that kind of reaction. Usually it was in response to anything having to do with the Turks, like at all.