Macbook vs Thinkpad T61 - Which would you buy TODAY?

[WackyDan]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: slugg
<--- proud owner of a t61

I though these Thinkpads are made by Lenovo now, by slave labor in communist China, not IBM... just like everything else.

How can you be proud of that? Do they have better slave laborers?

Do you have a Lenovo Thinkpad or the real thing? Just curious...

Maybe you should know a bit more what you are talking about before you spout off.

FACT: Lenovo employees were the first private property owners in China after Lenovo lobbied the Chinese gov't to allow their employee to be able to own their apartments/housing near where they work. Hmmm... I guess that really makes them slave laborers eh? I guess Lenovo is doing nothing to affect change culturally and socially in CHina....

Where do you think IBM made ThinkPads before Lenovo bought them? Not in the US.... Guess where? Same place Dell, Apple, etc make them... Mostly China.... some Korea, some Taiwan.

Fact: With a large base of operations in China, Lenovo's world wide corporate HQ is in..... Morrisville, NC... go figure... It's an American company..... sorta. It is publicly traded stock on the chinese market.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: WackyDan
Maybe you should know a bit more what you are talking about before you spout off.

FACT: Lenovo employees were the first private property owners in China after Lenovo lobbied the Chinese gov't to allow their employee to be able to own their apartments/housing near where they work. Hmmm... I guess that really makes them slave laborers eh? yada, yada, yada...

Sorry for parsing your declaration, but I suppose it all depends on the term 'slave laborers'...

These companies employ almost entirely rural farm girls, 'cause they're easier to control than men (a direct quote from a manager - when asked by a reporter why all they hire is women). They stick these factories in the middle of huge industrial areas, and house their women in 'female dorms' - miles away from any sort of recreational activity or interaction with friends and family.

For all intensive purposes, they're in Lenovo jail - 'labor slaves' if you will.

Workers have 18 seconds to add components before the assembly line moves on - producing more than 400 laptops per hour. The four assembly lines run 24 hours per day...

Who cares? They're all commies anyway, right? And, country hicks to boot?

Originally posted by: WackyDan
Where do you think IBM made ThinkPads before Lenovo bought them? Not in the US.... Guess where? Same place Dell, Apple, etc make them... Mostly China.... some Korea, some Taiwan.

IBM-branded computers were produced at the (former) IBM plant in Shenzhen, near Hong Kong!

The Lenovo production line is in the Pudong district of Shanghai...

Originally posted by: WackyDan
Fact: With a large base of operations in China, Lenovo's world wide corporate HQ is in..... Morrisville, NC... go figure... It's an American company..... sorta. It is publicly traded stock on the chinese market.

Um... Lenovo operates two corporate headquarters, one in Beijing for the Chinese market and one in North Carolina for the rest of the world.

Lenovo's chief, William Amelio (former Dell exec) is based in Singapore, and operates from there.

BTW... Globally, Lenovo's market share has fallen to 6.3% now, behind Taiwan's Acer...


Source: Gartner Dataquest, Q1, 2007

PC WORLD MARKET SHARE

* Hewlett Packard: 17.6%
* Dell: 13.6%
* Acer: 6.8%
* Lenovo/IBM: 6.3%
* Toshiba: 4.1%

Um...

Did I miss anything?

 

[WackyDan]

Yeah... You should have left out all the BS hyperbole about slave labor. It is an utter crock. I've met many Lenovo employees from China to know that isn't the case. Lenovo is one of the more progressive companies there and should be recognized for what they've done to affect change in their society. Search Amazon... There is a book written about it.

Little bit more history - Lenovo at one time did indeed manufacture ThinkPads under contract to IBM..... Go figure.

I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you... or have this thread turn from the original poster's intent. There is a lot of myth out in the wild about Lenovo. Having followed the industry quite closely for over ten years as part of my occupation, I can tell you that the myths are often completely made up or somewhat true in the rare case, but inflated to give the anti globalization folks something to grasp onto.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: WackyDan
I've met many Lenovo employees from China to know that isn't the case...

Sorry, but I don't believe you!

Have any proof? Otherwise I'm calling BS...

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: WackyDan
I've met many Lenovo employees from China to know that isn't the case...

Sorry, but I don't believe you!

Have any proof? Otherwise I'm calling BS...

you're the asshole who started it, why don't you show some proof of this "slave labor"? If you do, take it to P&N where people will want to argue with you. Otherwise shut the hell up and stay out of the thread.

 

[illusionm8]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan


you're the asshole who started it, why don't you show some proof of this "slave labor"? If you do, take it to P&N where people will want to argue with you. Otherwise shut the hell up and stay out of the thread.

truth

 

[VinDSL]

I guess 'we' got sidetracked...

The point is: Thinkpad's better days are behind it - basically 1992-2004.

Now, they're just the same 'Chinese Junk' everybody else is running made in one or two massive and highly integrated factories in China.

What's to be proud of? Seriously...

 

[rxblitzrx]

My Thinkpad T61 came in a day early . Amazingly fast "expedited" shipping from China. Anyways, I managed to get Windows XP installed with all my usual stuff in under 3 hours. That included new drivers, installing 1GB of RAM and some more stuff.

First Impressions:
1. The keyboard feels a little different from my old R40. It's really slick and the key travel seems to be a little less than before. I'm sure I'll get used to it in about a week. For now, I'm mis-keying a little because my hands want to go faster than my brain is registering.

2. The screen is pretty bright in my opinion. I keep looking back at my S-IPS desktop LCD and it looks "dim" compared to this thing. I was originally planning on getting the LCD repolarized and modded with Pixelbright technology so that it looks like Dell TruLife or Sony XBRITE. I might hold off on that now since the screen is already hurting my eyes.

3. The USB port on the right side is annoying. I plug my mouse into it (since I can't plug it in the back anymore) and my right hand keeps running into the receiver. I'll probably have to switch to the nano receiver from Logitech, but I really like my old Logitech wired mouse. It's not THAT big of a deal but occasionally my hand will run into it.

4. 14.1" widescreen..... well, it's my first widescreen. Must say it takes a second to get used to. Overall, I think I like widescreen. 1440x900 is a GREAT resolution. I've seen some pretty crappy 14.1" widescreen laptops with1280 x 800 and they look terrible. The original resolutoin is TOO small, so what I do is increase DPI to 120% in Firefox and also through Windows Display properties. Works out great.

5. Build quality has definitely suffered. I'm going to guess that this happened when they changed to "Lenovo". Lots of plastic parts!! I had to pull the palm rest off to install more ram. Plasticky, platicky, and more plasticky. I guess this is good for weight issues, but it feels cheap.

Will update again when I get to my coffee shop. I gotta have something to do while I'm sporting the new lappy.

 

[SexyK]

Why not plug the USB receiver into the port on the left hand side of the machine instead of the right hand side?

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: SexyK
Why not plug the USB receiver into the port on the left hand side of the machine instead of the right hand side?

My mouse isn't wireless and the cord won't reach from the left side of the laptop all the way to the right side. But again, it's not that big of an issue if your table is big enough.

 

[rxblitzrx]

Second Impressions:

1. Resolution. OK, this is really bugging me. The letters look a little blurry. Lower case R's are especially bad. The only thing I can compare it to is a gel pen that skips a lot. Lower case R's look like they're running out of ink on the stem of the letter. Lower case T's are just as bad.

Is this a limitation of the LCD?
Is it widescreen ratio?
Is it a poor LCD panel?


2. Viewing angles. My old R40 seems like it has better viewing angles than the T61. Colors are more vivid as well. The T61 LCD is brighter though... by far. I think I really need to try the Pixelbright mod because I really can't stand looking at this screen.


Overall, I'm not impressed with the T61. Hopefully after the pixelbright mod it will look better.


Any ideas??

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Second Impressions:

Overall, I'm not impressed with the T61. Hopefully after the pixelbright mod it will look better.

Any ideas??

No, but thank you for your honesty!!! :thumbsup:

 

[SexyK]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Second Impressions:

1. Resolution. OK, this is really bugging me. The letters look a little blurry. Lower case R's are especially bad. The only thing I can compare it to is a gel pen that skips a lot. Lower case R's look like they're running out of ink on the stem of the letter. Lower case T's are just as bad.

Is this a limitation of the LCD?
Is it widescreen ratio?
Is it a poor LCD panel?


2. Viewing angles. My old R40 seems like it has better viewing angles than the T61. Colors are more vivid as well. The T61 LCD is brighter though... by far. I think I really need to try the Pixelbright mod because I really can't stand looking at this screen.


Overall, I'm not impressed with the T61. Hopefully after the pixelbright mod it will look better.


Any ideas??

Lenovo ships their machines with ClearType off which is probably why you're experiencing issue #1 based on your description. Go into display properties and turn on ClearType then report back.

EDIT: In case you can't find the setting in Vista go to Personalize->Window Color and Appearance->Open classic appearance properties for more color options->Effects

Once you're in the effects dialog be sure "use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts" is checked and ClearType is selected from the drop down menu.

 

[VinDSL]

Another thought...

I run W2K Pro on most of my machines - and ClearType is NOT an option.

Display vendors have been involved in a brightness/contrast war for some time.

That's fine & great, and all, but extreme brightness/contrast does nothing for the QUALITY of text - au contraire, it makes it worse!

I'm using a Dell 1907FP right now. At the factory default setting, text is a LOT blurry! The lettering is actually comprised of a series of non-connected dots - almost like a dot matrix print-out, rather than an TFT-LCD display.

The cure, with this monitor, was to turn the brightness down to 13%...

Soooo, that would be my recommendation. Turn the brightness on your Lenovo WAY down and see if that makes a difference...

 

[rxblitzrx]

Cleartype is definitely on. (Windows XP: Display Properties | Appearance | Effects Button)

I think I'm just being really picky with the screen. I'm getting the Pixelbright mod done on Monday from Screentek so hopefully that will improve viewing angles, if not the grainy text.

 

[LongTimePCUser]

Not everyone's eyes are the same. Microsoft has a cleartype tuner web page that will let you tune the cleartype setting to match your eyesight.
Give it a try and let us know if it helps.
MS ClearType Tuner

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Cleartype is definitely on. (Windows XP: Display Properties | Appearance | Effects Button)

I think I'm just being really picky with the screen. I'm getting the Pixelbright mod done on Monday from Screentek so hopefully that will improve viewing angles, if not the grainy text.

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: LongTimePCUser
Not everyone's eyes are the same. Microsoft has a cleartype tuner web page that will let you tune the cleartype setting to match your eyesight.
Give it a try and let us know if it helps.
MS ClearType Tuner

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Cleartype is definitely on. (Windows XP: Display Properties | Appearance | Effects Button)

I think I'm just being really picky with the screen. I'm getting the Pixelbright mod done on Monday from Screentek so hopefully that will improve viewing angles, if not the grainy text.

OK, so I used the ClearType tuner and it might have helped a little bit. Overall, I'm still not impressed with the vertical viewing angles on this thing. After going to Best Buy today, I'm a little shaky on the idea of changing the LCD to "glossy" to get better contrast and viewing angles, because the light reflections were pretty annoying (in store).
However, I use my laptop 100% of the time in a classroom or at a coffee shop where the indoor lighting isn't "severe". Given this fact, I think I'll still opt for the "mod" to glossy. Then again, nothing in the store looked better than my Thinkpad. I may just be spoiled by S-IPS desktop LCDs and trying to find something that nice in a laptop LCD is going to be impossible.

The brightness of this panel is actually MORE than enough for me.... or maybe it's the blurry text that's hurting my eyes and not the brightness.

Overall, I think I'm getting used to this laptop LCD. Now the keyboard is a different story. Does anyone know how to get the NMB for the T61?

 

[rxblitzrx]

After a little more tinkering, I think changing the default font in my web browser helped a lot too. I don't know if it's good or bad... but at least there are tons of fonts I can sift through to find one that shows up clearly on this LCD. For the most part, problem solved!

 

[VinDSL]

Maybe you ought to GIVE THIS a shot...

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Maybe you ought to GIVE THIS a shot...

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[VinDSL]

Everybody's eyes go bad, sooner or later - usually in your 40's - sooner if you have bad genes!

Nothing to be ashamed of... just means you're getting old and falling apart...

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: corkyg
Just the opposite - I love the trackpoint and hate touchpads. Besides, I have over 25 years of PC experience that would be wasted on a Mac.

I would not hesitate to pick the T61.

my 20 years of experiences with the PC is what made me try the mac, and what made me switch after i fell in love with os x.

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: corkyg
Just the opposite - I love the trackpoint and hate touchpads. Besides, I have over 25 years of PC experience that would be wasted on a Mac.

I would not hesitate to pick the T61.

my 20 years of experiences with the PC is what made me try the mac, and what made me switch after i fell in love with os x.

What are the Pros vs Cons of OSx?

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: corkyg
Just the opposite - I love the trackpoint and hate touchpads. Besides, I have over 25 years of PC experience that would be wasted on a Mac.

I would not hesitate to pick the T61.

my 20 years of experiences with the PC is what made me try the mac, and what made me switch after i fell in love with os x.

What are the Pros vs Cons of OSx?

That really is a trick question, it all depends on what you use your computer for, how willing you are to adapting to a different OS (it isn't totally different, just enough) and what not.

Qualifying pros and cons is tricky.

 

[rxblitzrx]

I just got my laptop back from screenTek. The glossy conversion is AMAZING!

Contrast is much improved and viewing angles are better. I can easily sacrifice the reflections for these two benefits.