Macbook: Anybody Else Have *SERIOUS* Reliability Problems?

[artemicion]

I made the jump to Mac last July. Since then, the hard drive has failed three times and throughout I've experienced intermittent BSODs on Windows (via Bootcamp, both Beta and "official", with Leopard). Increasingly frustrated with the AppleCare support because all they do is replace the hard drive, despite the fact that there must be some sort of underlying problem with the thing (or I'm just an extremely unlucky guy).

First hard drive I ran with OSX 10.4 and XP through the bootcamp beta. Hard drive failed.

Second hard drive I ran with OSX 10.5 and Vista Ultimate. Vista would randomly blue screen, but not often enough to make it unusable. Maybe 2-3 times in a week. I attributed this to Vista being buggy, or possibly Apple's half-assed support of Windows drivers. I suspect it was issues with the wireless driver. Hard drive failed soon thereafter.

Third hard drive I also ran with OSX 10.5 and Vista Ultimate. Same thing happened.

Anyway, I suspect they're just going to give me a new hard drive, and I'm very tempted to just dump this blight onto someone on craigslist. It could be an issue with Vista compatibility but I need Windows for school (and I think if they advertise Bootcamp as a "feature" it should work, at any rate . . .).

I was just curious - is anybody else having hard drive issues with their Macbook? Anybody else out there run Leopard/Vista Ultimate? Suggestions? Anybody else feel a burning hatred swell up in their heart whenever those Mac vs. PC commercials are on TV? Anybody else dream at night about being in a room with no windows with a baseball bat and the Mac Guy and Comcast Lady tied to chairs?

 

[PhoKingGuy]

My GF's macbook has had the HD replaced 3 times, battery once, a 1 inch square of the palmwrest cracked off, and now the thing freezes intermittently and the "mac genius" said that it is normal for people for haven't upgraded to Leopard yet and offered to install it for some ridiculous charge.

 

[TheStu]

Mine has had no major problems after 1.5 years of use. Honestly, with stuff like what both of you have had (and no, freezing is not attributable to Tiger, the genius is an idiot) I would take it to an Apple Store and stand there until the problem was resolved satisfactorily. Both of you sound like you need new Logic Boards, which should be covered by AppleCare assuming you still have coverage (default is 1 year)

For a while I was running Vista Business (pretty much identical to Ultimate) on my MacBook alongside Leopard, and Tiger, and had no driver issues (once drivers were released) and Vista ran just like it did on my buddy's dell laptop. Like I said, I think you need a new logic board, which is a free replacement if you are still under warranty.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

How could I convince them of that? It seems to happen randomly and never happens whenever she or I take it there. The genius ran a "diagnostic" and claimed the system is fine. It seems like almost all of the techs there say that upgrading to leopard would solve the problem. Ive hinted at the probability that the logic board is failing, but Ive been brushed off, one even suggested that only windows based laptops need replacements and that macbook logic board failure rates were "far far far lower".

Im just about ready to throw it at them and tell them to shove it

 

[TheStu]

Tell you what, run your own diagnostic. Turn the machine off, and when you turn it back on, hold D. This will put it into a hardware diagnostics mode. Have it run the gamut of tests and see what it returns. Also, if the hard drive has been replaced 3 times, you might be able to invoke a lemon law I think that is the required number of issues, and if that happens;

Walk into store
Invoke Lemon Law
????
Profit!!! (read: new laptop)

 

[artemicion]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try running the diagnostic when I get home (you know, seeing as how I can't access the internet since I don't have a laptop that works . . .). Is this something that can be done without OSX installed? OSX refuses to install now that the hard drive is on the fritz again . . . or more accurately it'll install but on bootup it just hangs at the apple logo with the spinny thing below it . . .

Not sure what the Lemon Law is in Michigan, and I think fed lemon law only applies to autos. Good advice though, hopefully the threat is enough. I live in Michigan now, but I bought the laptop when I lived in Pennsylvania, and Apple's based in California, so hopefully one of those states has strong Lemon Laws (and favorable choice of law rules . . .).

I'm kinda worried though, because I only have the wimpy 1 year "complementary" warranty at this point - AppleCare is only 90 days after purchase for free. This is so freakin' frustrating because it seems like Apple just throws you new hard drives instead of fixing the problem until the freakin' AppleCare runs out and now I probably have to pay for it - so whack!

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: artemicion
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try running the diagnostic when I get home (you know, seeing as how I can't access the internet since I don't have a laptop that works . . .). Is this something that can be done without OSX installed? OSX refuses to install now that the hard drive is on the fritz again . . . or more accurately it'll install but on bootup it just hangs at the apple logo with the spinny thing below it . . .

Not sure what the Lemon Law is in Michigan, and I think fed lemon law only applies to autos. Good advice though, hopefully the threat is enough. I live in Michigan now, but I bought the laptop when I lived in Pennsylvania, and Apple's based in California, so hopefully one of those states has strong Lemon Laws (and favorable choice of law rules . . .).

I'm kinda worried though, because I only have the wimpy 1 year "complementary" warranty at this point - AppleCare is only 90 days after purchase for free. This is so freakin' frustrating because it seems like Apple just throws you new hard drives instead of fixing the problem until the freakin' AppleCare runs out and now I probably have to pay for it - so whack!

The AppleCare hardware warranty is for 1 year, the phone support is the 90 day bit. So long as you have had it for less than a year, it is still covered.

The Diagnostics should work even if the OS isn't there. In fact, I think you can boot the diagnostics from the install DVD that came with your Mac. I have only ever done it once just cuz, but everything on mine was working fine at the time.

After some more research it does appear that Lemon Laws do only pertain to cars, but I know that the state of New Jersey was looking into a consumer electronics lemon law, if that ever went through state legislature and got signed, you now have precedent. And although Apple is based in California, they pretty much have stores in every state, and IANAL but they probably have to follow any applicable federal laws. I have heard that so long as you keep persisting, but stay calm and polite, you can get the whole problem taken care of.

Some will say that Apple's Quality Care has gone down in recent years, and I am sure that you would agree, and if I was in your position, I would be inclined to as well. However, consider this; Apple has never been as popular as it is now (well, not since before Jobs left and then came back). So that means that they are selling more computers, and even if they maintain the same percentage of failed systems, lets say, 1%, then the overall number of failed systems will increase. And since the internet is prevalent in this day and age, you can expect that people will havea larger audience for their complaints. You rarely hear anyone (save for VinDSL perhaps ) coming into forums to talk about how perfect their laptops are. They come to the forums because they have problems and want to see what the others there have to say about them.

Honestly, get to an Apple Store, see a Genius, and explain the problem to them. Tell them that this is the third hard drive and it is having problems too. And this, to you at least, seems to be indicative of a larger, more serious problem. If he continues to blow you off, ask POLITELY (I cannot stress this enough) to see the manager. Explain the to teh manager the situation, tell them that you have been incredibly unsatisfied the with the level of service that you have received thus far, and would appreciate if something more than the absolute minimum can be done to rectify the matter.

 

[ubercaffeinated]

never had a problem once in the two years i've own this macbook. it's served me well through grad school. very well. i'm sorry you guys have had problems and i hope apple will solve your problems satisfactorily.

 

[artemicion]

Think I found out what the problem was:

http://www.informationweek.com...VN?articleID=204203468

looked into my macbook and found out that I in fact did have the same hard drive. Others with Macbooks might want to check theirs out too.

I am still a little irate about the three hard drive failures, especially since they replaced the last one with a known defective Seagate. I had last gone in to the Apple Store for a replacement HDD I think in early December and that article came out in November I think. But to put a positive light on my Apple experience, I had an appointment earlier today and they gave me a brand new Macbook, even with the most recent chipset update and pre-installed Leopard and iLife '08.

So given the latest Genius Bar experience, I'd say my overall experience is still slightly negative - my Apple outlook was TOTALLY in the dump before today, but I'm still not sure I'd ever buy a Macbook again.

 

[Parasitic]

My MB has a Toshiba drive in there stock I think.

 

[TheStu]

My 100GB drive is a Toshiba, by my friend's sister's 60GB was a Seagate. Hers died, and I popped that sucker open... the platter was scratched.