MAC problem! I'm a pc guy and just got asked to administer a MAC network!! help!

xander5000

Member
Feb 3, 2002
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is it that different? how long should it take me to get a handle on it? all the network and hardware stuff is similar right?
i appreciate any help or links to helpful sites.


thanks,
x
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
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Like you, I know zip about macs, other than some some mac guys have a certain rabid enthusiasm. I think you'd do better to post in the networking forum here and at Ars Technica, they also have a mac forum.

Hope you didn't somehow give them the idea that you knew anything about macs....
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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depends on the network. all the hardware should be the same. but it's all in the protocols.
 

HappyPuppy

Lifer
Apr 5, 2001
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Don't the newer MACs use TCP/IP? You can tell how much I know about them.

Pick up a "MACs for Dummies" book, but don't let the boss see you referring to it.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,999
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Awww c'mon, I put a Mac on a LAN just by fiddling around with the system properties. Keep fiddling, you'll find the TCP/IP setting eventually. :)
 

Diable

Senior member
Sep 28, 2001
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If there older Mac they could use AppleTalk which is easy to use and setup.
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
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It depends on how you have your network configured and which MacOS you are talking about. For TCP/IP stuff, the Mac is basically identical to a PC. You can set static or DHCP IP addresses. They can use the same routers and switches and everything. Even wireless 802.11b ethernet is pretty much seamless.

Where they differ significantly is with platform-specific network services. Macs don't natively see Windows shares. They don't care about Windows workgroups or domains or WINS or the like. They can't generally use a printer that is only being shared through a Windows server or a Windows-specific print-spooler. All the above also goes for Novell networks.

That's not to say that you can't make a Mac work on a Windows or Novell network though. It just requires third-party software. DAVE for the Mac is an excellent Windows networking tool. It basically lets a Mac be a full member on a Windows network, alleviating pretty much all the above issues. The other route is to enable services for Macintosh on a Windows server, but that can make some admins get twitchy.

With Novell networking it's a little trickier. There is a Mac Novell client that you can buy, but I don't know how current it is. I'm pretty sure that if it is still available it only works with OS 9 and lower. To my knowledge, there is no Novell client for Mac OS X.

Then there is the inherent Mac networking. Just like Windows has its own platform-specific networking capabilities, so does the Mac. AppleTalk is the traditional method of Mac networking. It's just a protocol, just like TCP or NetBUI. Mac networking is inherently peer-to-peer, and AppleTalk is the communication. It runs on just about any network, even over IP, but some routers may need to be configured to handle AppleTalk packets. Segmenting an AppleTalk network to create "Zones" requires, obviously, a router or server that can define AppleTalk zones. It may sound confusing, but it's really pretty seamless.

Network printing is also usually peer-to-peer. Each computer on the network directly talks to a printer, no print servers. You can either use a printer with AppleTalk capability, or it can be pretty much any TCP/IP printer since modern Macs can do LPR. Just go to configure a new printer, type in the IP address, pick a specific or generic print driver, and you're good to go.

OS X is throwing a curve ball into traditional Mac networking. Because it is a unix-based OS, it features all the TCP/IP capabilities of a unix box, including ports that you need to be sure are closed. You can configure it for SAMBA sharing, just like a Linux box (though DAVE is still more full-featured). Apple is even trying to kill off AppleTalk and go strictly TCP/IP. That caused a major protest though because it kills backwards compatability with established Mac environments. AppleTalk is in OS X, and that's a good thing for now.

In general, the Mac is fine on an agnostic network. When you start trying to ask it to be a seamless Windows box, then you've got issues.
 

Nack

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
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LOL, welcome to the world of AppleTalk. :p

Just remember five things:

1. When you want to choose basic settings for your network, or view the users on the network (remember, it is an APPLE), try the "CHOOSER".

2. Newer MAC OSes CAN communicate over a TCP/IP network, and there is a special "picture" for it in the control panel (isn't that special).

3. The pretty little pictures are your friends. When in doubt, just observe them, and do what an idiot would do in your place (that is usually the path to the correct answer with MACs).

4. Remember, MACs are just "Fisher Price"-like versions of PCs. Think like a child, and you will be ok. Most importantly, don't take it too seriously.

5. Your worst nightmare when administering a MAC network is the end user who THINKS he/she has it all figured out. The scarry part is he/she probably DOES have 60% of it figured out since MACs are designed to be so idiot-proof, but the devil is in the details of the other 40%. Try explaining that to some computer neophyte that you sort-of report to, who "has this all figured out" and doesn't understand "why it is taking so long" to make their cute little MAC work with all of their IBM compatible printers and peripherals. Now THAT is fun. :D

Nack
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
3,536
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BTW, unless you want your Mac users to think you're an idiot it's "Mac", not "MAC". Short for Macintosh, obviously. MAC in all uppercase is an acronym for Media Access Control.
 

bluemax

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2000
7,182
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I'm doing some careful reading here! As a network-guy-in-training, this is stuff I'm likely to see as well.
If you're not using Appletalk, the Mac should be able to use TCP/IP when configured. Whether or not it can use TCP/IP to telnet, ping, etc, as well as browse... well, that'll take experience I guess. :)

Just a note, I'm sure you know... TCP/IP and Appletalk cannot see each other and would have to have a router (with conversion programmed if one is possible between the two) between the two different "languages". (What is the word I want to use... TCP/IP, IPX/SPX is a what?)
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
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<< I'm doing some careful reading here! As a network-guy-in-training, this is stuff I'm likely to see as well.
If you're not using Appletalk, the Mac should be able to use TCP/IP when configured. Whether or not it can use TCP/IP to telnet, ping, etc, as well as browse... well, that'll take experience I guess. :)

Just a note, I'm sure you know... TCP/IP and Appletalk cannot see each other and would have to have a router (with conversion programmed if one is possible between the two) between the two different "languages". (What is the word I want to use... TCP/IP, IPX/SPX is a what?)
>>



You might be saying one thing and meaning another here. You can use AppleTalk and TCP/IP on the same Mac simultaneously. And AppleTalk can do its own thing on a network or it can do it using IP. In fact, AppleTalk works quite nicely over a TCP/IP network. If I set up AppleShare/IP sharing on my work Mac, I can access it from a Mac at home over the Internet. It acts just like any AppleTalk shared drive, it just happens over IP.

And that's where I think you're getting a bit funny in your description. AppleTalk is a protocol, just like TCP is a protocol. Both can work over IP simultaneously, so you can have AppleShare/IP and TCP/IP. Configuring routers depends upon whether you are doing AppleTalk as its own deal or if you are doing it over IP.

It's all really pretty much plug and play, but picking up a good Mac networking book can be useful.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,142
1,791
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<< 4. Remember, MACs are just "Fisher Price"-like versions of PCs. Think like a child, and you will be ok. Most importantly, don't take it too seriously. >>

:confused: Eh? That's a bit of an odd statement. My Mac is my toy ;), but I wouldn't call a Fisher Price version of my XP PC, considering that my Mac laptop runs Unix (OS X Darwin) 24/7 and exists on a wireless TCP/IP network.

I'm posting on it now, since my XP box is fubared. My ROM drives all stopped working all of a sudden. :frown:
 

BigFatCow

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
3,373
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i want a Mac... only problem is they cost too much and i cant justify spending that kind of money on a Mac...
 

xander5000

Member
Feb 3, 2002
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Hey guys (and gals) thanks!
i don't think i need to worry about putting the stuff on a win network n stuff. the job is for a school district that uses all Macs (not MACS, hee).
i'm a little intimidated. i'm sure i could learn it for the job but the bigger question is do i want to take this job? i'm just doing this so i can put some more experience on my resume. is Mac experience worth it in a PC world? i know i don't want to work on Macs for ever.
i appreciate your advice.

x
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
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Well then, I'd say don't take the job. With a 4% marketshare, supporting the Mac well has to require a little passion, and it's apparent that you ain't got that Mac fire. Can't say as I blame you. I probably wouldn't take the job either and I know a little something about 'em.
 

xander5000

Member
Feb 3, 2002
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thanks for the advice kgraeme, that's kinda what i was thinkin. dang. it would be a sweet gig workin for a school district. all those benefits and days off. . . . . . .. . ..

 

bluemax

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2000
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talk to them and be straight-up about it. Tell them what you told us- you're a PC guy, you'd like the experience, you'll have to study a bit more about the Mac networking, etc.... let them decide whether they still want you. They might also have a different job. ;)