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Mac pro deteriorating

Carlis

Senior member
I know that this has been up for debate before, but I'm a bit troubled by how apple handles the mac pro line.

As I recall, the gen 1 machine was 2500 USD with two competitive processors and 8 memory slots. The next gen also offered two fast processors for about this price.

The current line however, offers for 2500 USD a single processor machine with 4 memory slots. Performance wise it offers nothing more than a fairly good desktop from dell or whatever. The processor is old, etc. Also, the number of graphics cards is not 4 as it used to be. The number of graphics options is also smaller. One can of course get high end cards elsewhere, but then they are not compatible with the current displays.

What is the purpose of this slaughtering of the mac pro? Some people actually still need workstations for their work... Comparing previous models and prices for a two processor system with 8 ram-slots, I conclude that apple decided to add a premium of 1000 USD or so to their MP line. I don't like the look of this.

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Carlis
 
You're right, it's been debated a lot.

I think the MacPro line isn't understood by a lot of people because they simply don't have the need for one. These simply aren't consumer machines so much as prosumer and high end.

So for the average consumer, yes, paying $2500 for a tower to surf the web, write emails and do the occasional Photoshop just for themselves or Aunt Martha, it seems like a rip off.

But for a creative professional that needs a pro-quality Mac to do gigs that EACH time pay back the cost of the MacPro, it's a steal.

The real sweet spot for a studio is the $5k 12 core MacPro. Even at 5K it's actually a giveaway- the processors alone are nearly 4grand by themselves. If you're running a production and you need Final Cut Studio or Logic Pro,or whatever, then there's simply NO OTHER WAY you're getting it done. And as big of a Hackintosh fan as I am, the reality is a legit production can't go that route- big companies have to keep things totally on the up-and-up. (Though I've done a number of Hack builds for small productions and it worked out amazingly, but I digress).

So to say there's no other way, is not hyperbole- it's true. There's no pro-level FCS solution from Dell, or anyone else, there is only Apple. Given this fact, it's actually a wonder they don't charge MORE for the higher end MacPros, because they have a total monopoly on them.

Therein lies the problem for the consumer though- because the MacPro line is a monopoly, there's no way in hell Apple is going to break their own lock on it to offer the much sought after mid-range Mac.

For me, it's something of a love/hate. I totally understand Apple's position. I currently use the latest single quad MacPro at work just about every day. (As I've had at work just about every single model of Mac tower dating back to the beige PowerMac 8500 era in the mid 90's.) So I love these machines.

On the other hand, I hate that Apple is such a monopoly in some ways, because if there was a legit Apple competitor also making Macs, it'd drive the pace of Mac progress much faster. Apple and their fanbois totally re-wrote the real history of the clones back in the 1990's- I was there and know the re-write is total bullshit. The clone makers took off and were producing specs of Macs WAY WAY WAY beyond anything Apple had to offer. Take a look at DayStar for example- their machines kicked Apple's machines down the block and stole their lunch money to boot. They made quad-CPU Macs at a time when Apple was still pretending that was impossible.

Just when Apple pulled the plug, the cloners like Daystar and Umax were making faster/better/cheaper G3 designs, they were working on removing the wall of bullshit between 'PC' hardware and 'Mac' hardware (think what a boon that would be if one could simply get ANY decent graphic card they wanted for their Mac, instead of this ridiculous 'Mac compatible fairly tale bullshit that we STILL have in that arena!) while Apple was still being stingy as ever with newer gen hardware- and they were about to unleash CHRP Macs that would have blown the barn doors off everything.

Apple pulled the plug and labeled the whole thing a failure- because the reality was they didn't like the competition. The reality was, the pace of Mac progress absolutely EXPLODED with the cloners- but Apple would rather dilly-dally, release a new update to models, oh, once every... now and then ho-hum, and they know the fanbois will eat it up anyway. So there you have it, they can sit on their thumbs with the MacPro for as long as they want and milk the profits out of the carcass until it's old and moldy, and it'll still be the only game in town.

If someone like Daystar still made Macs, you can bet Apple would have to get up off their ass in order to compete. The old 'update every once in a blue moon' wouldn't cut it, and their product profit cycles would shrink like everyone else's. So it's easy to see why they'll never allow that again- why would they want to create their own competition and shrinking bottom line?
 
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Yes, the argument that these machines are for professionals is of course valid in many cases, though I do think there are a lot of power users or just enthusiasts who would want these machines as well.

I am a grad student in physics, and mac is a very nice platform for science because its unix, yet at the same time allows you to run all this design stuff. So it is much more convenient than linux for publishing.

Unlike the professionals in this famous creative industry, I don't have a large budget for computers (though I managed to get a mbp). In fact, given how important the mac platform has become in science over the last five years or so, I think there is a large and growing group of users who have budget limitations yet at the same time need very capable computers. For them, apple workstations have become very hard to justify...
 
buy used.

I am still running a 1st gen macpro and it feels good still. Works every day and it pays for itself over and over and over and over.
 
new mac pro can rock 16gb and 8gb dimms. 8gb dimms cost the same as good 4gb dimms(*2) these days.
lion supports several AMD video cards with PC bios in developer preview. these drivers can be ported to snow leopard now.

so what's the biggie?
 
For them, apple workstations have become very hard to justify...

iMac. I use one 8hrs a day. Its just near the same performance of the Mac Pro Quad, with a built in IPS. If you need the extra drives, video cards.. you're going to have to pay to get it. But if you need all of the extras you're probably going to have the money in the first place.

I look at it this way.. When you buy into Apple you're making a 5yr purchase (probably more). We're still using a couple G5 servers. When I look at other computers, I see 2-3yr usage.

Also if you were following probably a bit more closely to Apple.. You'd see what looks like a massive number of PC desktop cards were just added to supported list. And at the same note the Mac Pro is a bit dated right now, but Intel has yet to release a 2CPU model of the current Sandy Bridge architecture.. which leads to no new Mac Pro.. yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Server_processors
Q1 2012, Q4 2011.

With that being said I'll probably finance a Sandy Bridge Mac Pro when they release.
 
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new mac pro can rock 16gb and 8gb dimms. 8gb dimms cost the same as good 4gb dimms(*2) these days.
lion supports several AMD video cards with PC bios in developer preview. these drivers can be ported to snow leopard now.

so what's the biggie?

nobody makes 8gb sticks yet unless there's some weird brand I don't know about, when they are out who knows how much they'll cost. Knowing how computer components are, they won't be priced the same as 4x2, probably considerably more. And years down the road when 16gb sticks come out they'll no doubt be pricey.
 
nobody makes 8gb sticks yet unless there's some weird brand I don't know about, when they are out who knows how much they'll cost. Knowing how computer components are, they won't be priced the same as 4x2, probably considerably more. And years down the road when 16gb sticks come out they'll no doubt be pricey.
Eh?
Even 16GB DIMMS exist now. They're expensive- $700-$1000 each.
 
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