Mac Mini versus homebrew PC versus AMD PIC

[halfadder]

There are lots of interesting threads about Apple's new Mac Mini, and there are many comparisons that I wanted to comment on. Rather than hijack some of the other threads, I am starting this new one.

Mac Mini versus Home Brew PC. Below are prices from NewEgg. You can probably find these parts a little cheaper via Froogle, but I think NewEgg is quite reputable. There is about $10 - $18 shipping though, but you might have a coupon for free shipping.

$61 1.53 GHz AMD Sempron 2300+ w/ HSF
$44 ASRock K7Upgrade-880 KT880 motherboard
$31 Wintec 256 MB PC2700
$36 Apollo ATI Radeon 9200SE 64MB
$46 Maxtor 40GB 7200 RPM
$31 Rosewell 32x CD-RW 16x DVD-ROM combo
$23 Linkworld ATX case w/ 300W PSU
-----------
$272, and that gives you some extra PCI slots, a faster hard drive, and twice the gfx card memory.

If you don't already have a legal cost of Windows XP Home, that willl add $92 at NewEgg, bringing the total up to $364. If you want to add the cost of MS Works ($31), Quicken 2005 ($35) and Ulead DVD MovieFactory ($50) you're up to $480. Which is one dollar more than my Mac Mini cost me, and Apple's shipping is free.

Obviously the Mac Mini is no huge bargain, but it's not too far from a similar PC. There are pros and cons to each, of course, plus the huge matter of variety and personal preference.

 

[halfadder]

A lot of people are talking about the AMD PIC:
http://www.amdboard.com/pic.html
http://pair.offshore.ai/pic/

I think the PIC is neat and I might buy the next version of it, or some other small form factor AMD PC. After all, I'm a complete computer geek and loving it! And asthetically speaking, I think the PIC looks almost as good as the Mac Mini.

But there are some things to point out about the PIC. The most obvious is the lack of any optical drive. True, most people email files these days or use USB thumb drives, but most new software comes on DVD-ROM. Most of us probably have an external USB optical drive, but it's just one more thing to confuse new users.

Also, it only has a VGA port, not DVI. This means analog video and also harder to connect to a modern HDTV. It also means no composite or svideo. Apple sells a $19 adapter to conver the Mac Mini's DVI port into composite and svideo. The Mac Mini also ships with a DVI to VGA adapter.

Software is a slight issue. The PIC runs Windows CE 5.0. But then again, the Mac Mini runs Mac OS X 10.3.7. So it's a wash. But don't expect grandpa to be able to buy some software at Walmart and hope to easily install it on his PIC. (Or his Mac Mini for that matter).

And finally, the 366 MHz Geode processor. It's slow. It's not G4 slow, it's VIA slooooow. AMD likes to compare it to the VIA Centaur line of C3/C5 processors. Yikes! Here they compare a 533 MHz AMD Geode with a 533 MHz VIA:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Conne...44,00.html?redir=CSG07
Do a google search to see just how slow the VIA C3 / C5 based EPIA boards are. They're great little SFF systems, but they're just much slower than even a 1 GHz iBook.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Since you mentioned software (which most people don't) you have to include all of bunlded software (iLife, iCal, mail, etc.,.). And you have to keep in mind that part of the Mini's selling point is it's size (which plays a part in its cost). Specing out similar hardware, but putting it in a significantly bigger case, isn't a really fair comparison.

I'm not saying tha the Mini is the deal to end all deals, but comparing apples to apples (no pun intended) I think the Mini is priced competitively for what it is.


Lethal

 

[Cerb]

PC: where's the SFF case?
Also, if you want to include software, spending $90 on XP will get you less good software than a Free OS would.

 

[halfadder]

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe
I'm not saying tha the Mini is the deal to end all deals, but comparing apples to apples (no pun intended) I think the Mini is priced competitively for what it is.

And that's why I ordered one last week! But I did want to point out the pros and cons of the alternatives. After all, I'm a both a PC user and a Mac user.

 

[halfadder]

Originally posted by: Cerb
PC: where's the SFF case?
Also, if you want to include software, spending $90 on XP will get you less good software than a Free OS would.

Good call, I should create a comparison using Linux and free software (OpenOffice, gimp, dvdauthor, etc).

 

[Cerb]

MSI: $150 case, PSU, mobo, but only IEG graphics and 2 PCI slots. Idle 31dbA. Such a PC should barely be that loud under load, assuming this basic dBA@1m.
Soltek and Biostar offer 1x PCI + 1x AGP options under $200, but similarly sized to Shuttle XPCs.

No software, I can get a basic Sempron + Shuttle SFF build for just under $400 w/ video card. Replace the read fan with something quiet (it's made to be able to handle much beefier components), and you've got a nice POS desktop for under $400. Software cost is not included, as it seems silly to me to make a simple desktop box and install Windows.

However, it is still several times the size of the Mac Mini. A AMD solution similar to MSI's would be ideal, as it could be made sufficiently quiet, and with NF2 IGP, the video wouldn't suck, either.

 

[halfadder]

My next PC will almost certainly be SFF. Not micro, but probably Shuttle XPC sized. A64 + NF4 + 6600GT would be nice.

 

[OoTLink]

The PIC and Mac Mini have absolutely nothing to do with each other -- geez, TOTALLY different purposes, the PIC is supposed to be built to be cheap for people who can't afford a computer.

The Mac mini is made for people who can afford a $500 computer.

A homebrew machine, at $272, with a generic ATX case and cheap components, would still have no OS, a SFF box at $400 would have no OS, and what are your suggestions?

The Mac Mini comes with OS X, ilife, and all sorts of other things.. so you compare it to a $100 cheaper machine with no OS and call that fair?

The problem with the homebrew machine (no offense) is that it's a piece of crap:


$61 1.53 GHz AMD Sempron 2300+ w/ HSF <-- okay
$44 ASRock K7Upgrade-880 KT880 motherboard <-- cheap, but whatever
$31 Wintec 256 MB PC2700 <- No. Use a crucial-quality stick like apple would.
$36 Apollo ATI Radeon 9200SE 64MB <-- Slow Edition. No.
$46 Maxtor 40GB 7200 RPM <-- but the mini uses a laptop HD *shrug*
$31 Rosewell 32x CD-RW 16x DVD-ROM combo <- Cheap ass drive. Try using a panasonic or pioneer
$23 Linkworld ATX case w/ 300W PSU <-- Cheap cheap...

You forgot to mention the prices for shipping those parts, and what you'd charge to assemble them. Soooooo, I'm guessing about $100 (shipping runs $40 for all that stuff, easily). Another $100 for the OS?

And it'd still be a cheap ATX case with generic power supply (possibly unreliable), vs an entirely custom engineered case with OS, app suite, etc....

*sigh*

 

[hopejr]

I don't think that comparing the Mac mini to a Linux SFF is fair either. Linux is not really an OS for people that the Mac mini is aimed at IMHO - assuming that it's also aimed at ppl sick of problems in windows and having to call a troubleshooter all the time to fix it because they're noobs.
And comparing the Mac Mini to an AMD PIC is really ridiculous. The PIC is almost a Pocket PC in a big box because of it's processor and Windows CE. Absolutely stupid.

 

[mrgoblin]

Originally posted by: hopejr
I don't think that comparing the Mac mini to a Linux SFF is fair either. Linux is not really an OS for people that the Mac mini is aimed at IMHO - assuming that it's also aimed at ppl sick of problems in windows and having to call a troubleshooter all the time to fix it because they're noobs.
And comparing the Mac Mini to an AMD PIC is really ridiculous. The PIC is almost a Pocket PC in a big box because of it's processor and Windows CE. Absolutely stupid.

You are stupid thinking that the AMD PIC is a pocket pc in a big box.

 

[Cerb]

A Linux SFF is a lot closer to the Mac Mini than a Windows-based one is. a desktop Linux distro will go on, and just work. No BS. Not as fancy as OS X, but a lot better for such simple use than Windows.

 

[hopejr]

I mainly meant the price of Linux (being free).

 

[halfadder]

Originally posted by: mrgoblin
You are stupid thinking that the AMD PIC is a pocket pc in a big box.

The Geode processor is on par with Via C3/C5 CPU, so it's faster than most Pocket PC CPUs. Plus it has all of the normal desktop PC ports (VGA, USB, audio in/out, etc). Just because it runs WinCE 5.0 doesn't make it a PocketPC.

 

[Cerb]

Yeah, but for normal use, you've also got exceptional quality, and many useful included apps. I can't comment on how they compare w/ what a typical Mac or the Mac Mini come with, but they sure beat Windows basic options .

 

[piasabird]

The Geode PIC is not even a true Windows XP, but a Windows CE which is designed for limited use devices like Palm Computers. It is more like a souped up palm top without the interface.

 

[thirdlegstump]

Which one will LOOK better? No contest here. Apple wins hands down.

 

[sparks]

I think we are underestimating the premium of the form factor. The Mac Mini is smaller then a Mini-ITX computer. I don't think anyone can build a Mini-ITX PC with the same features for anywhre close to the price of a Mac Mini - period.

 

[bupkus]

I like the look and sound of the Mac Mini but I would like to know what the PIC is actually capable of. First, and I don't know if this is valid, but I don't like the idea of another Microsoft OS to buy, learn, configure and support. Whatever I recommend to someone I end up supporting. I wish I could try the PIC just for poor folks here in the US. Hmm... has Anandtech ever done a review of the PIC? Has anyone created a linux distribution for the PIC? I suppose you must buy Window CE when you buy the PIC. I need to google a lot more on this.