Lutz: GM building Hybrids for good press

[MikeMike]

Lutz: GM building hybrids for good press


General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said in an interview this week that GM doubts the benefits of hybrids, but must build them to improve its public image. "Hybrids are technologically of doubtful benefit, and expensive, but necessary from a political and public relations point of view," Lutz told Just-Auto. "Toyota has said, economically, hybrids make no sense. The reduction in fuel [consumption] does not pay for the technological content and cost of the vehicle so therefore economically it remains fairly nonsensical, so that's the left-brain analytical argument."

"The right brain is it's the popular thing to do, many people believe that if we all drove hybrids the world would suddenly get cooler again and then it's the patriotic thing to do because if you drive a hybrid you will no longer be funding the Arab terrorists, and so forth."

"So, with all those beliefs out there, you have to do a hybrid for public policy reasons."

"I don't care how much money you get out but when you've got two drivetrains, the sophisticated electronics and a big lithium-ion battery, you've got cost."

Lutz says diesels are also problematic. "The modern diesel is becoming more and more expensive as we have to have to gear up to meet Euro 5, which is very difficult."

"Let's not forget, a diesel engine is always going to be more expensive than a conventional petrol engine, that's the laws of physics."

In March, Lutz said GM is most enthusiastic about ethanol. "We think running the nation on E85 makes more sense than all the hybrids in the world," he said.

 

[CrackRabbit]

"The reduction in fuel [consumption] does not pay for the technological content and cost of the vehicle so therefore economically it remains fairly nonsensical..."

That is why I won't buy a hybrid.

I have to disagree with him on diesel though. The europeans seem to have no problems making a durable, fairly clean burning and efficent diesel engine. I feel that diesel and biodiesel are the way things should be heading, not e85 or other corn based ethanol fuels.

 

[Fenixgoon]

diesel >>> gas:|

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
"The reduction in fuel [consumption] does not pay for the technological content and cost of the vehicle so therefore economically it remains fairly nonsensical..."

That is why I won't buy a hybrid.

I have to disagree with him on diesel though. The europeans seem to have no problems making a durable, fairly clean burning and efficent diesel engine. I feel that diesel and biodiesel are the way things should be heading, not e85 or other corn based ethanol fuels.

The cost is in developing the engine. The europeans have had these same diesel designs for YEARS...

Of course, GM should technically have these already, because they own Vauxhall, and they have both a 1.3L and a 1.9L. Vauxhall may not have the plant capacity to build the damn things for North America, though - that may be where they're having issues. GM's part suppliers won't play ball, and they can't retool an engine plant on their shoestring budget. Of course, I have no idea what the REAL problem is, I'm just taking a few guesses.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
"The reduction in fuel [consumption] does not pay for the technological content and cost of the vehicle so therefore economically it remains fairly nonsensical..."

That is why I won't buy a hybrid.

I have to disagree with him on diesel though. The europeans seem to have no problems making a durable, fairly clean burning and efficent diesel engine. I feel that diesel and biodiesel are the way things should be heading, not e85 or other corn based ethanol fuels.

The cost is in developing the engine. The europeans have had these same diesel designs for YEARS...

Of course, GM should technically have these already, because they own Vauxhall, and they have both a 1.3L and a 1.9L. Vauxhall may not have the plant capacity to build the damn things for North America, though - that may be where they're having issues. GM's part suppliers won't play ball, and they can't retool an engine plant on their shoestring budget. Of course, I have no idea what the REAL problem is, I'm just taking a few guesses.

I think the real problems ultimately lies in the American car buyer.
Most american car buyers think of the noisy, smoky and unreliable diesels that GM and Ford and made in the past (the early 80s were the last hard push towards diesel here IIRC). Thats why most are regulated to heavy hualing jobs in full size trucks or big rigs.
They tend to ignore the small, fairly quiet and very torquey turbo-diesels that Volkswagen puts in their cars.

Personaly I want a light truck with a four cylinder diesel engine, I think such a thing would be wonderful. Plenty of torque for towing and hualing and excelent gas milage on top of it.

 

[ElFenix]

i don't think E85 is the answer. that is just a giant subsidy to corn farmers. like ADM needs my help.

 

[NTB]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i don't think E85 is the answer. that is just a giant subsidy to corn farmers. like ADM needs my help.

E85 in and of itself may be a very good solution - *making* it from corn is the problem. From what I've read and heard, stuff like switchgrass and sugarcane are much more productive starting materials.

Nate

 

[Pepsi90919]

bob lutz is the smart

 

[catnap1972]

Why can't Lutz just admit that he just wants to build more and more Hummers (since that's what "everybody" 'wants' and makes them the most profit) and couldn't give two sh!+s about fuel economy?

 

[thomsbrain]

E85 isn't even remotely viable as a fuel for our nation's needs, as has been shown again and again. it's like biodiesel: it's great for the 2 dozen cars in the nation that run it, but you could never make enough of it (nor create it effeciently enough) to use it for more cars than that.

biodiesel really blows my mind. imagine how much energy is expended and polution is made by the time that McDonald's oil is put in the garbage containers... and this is supposed to be the future of transportation?

 

[nater]

biodiesel really blows my mind. imagine how much energy is expended and polution is made by the time that McDonald's oil is put in the garbage containers... and this is supposed to be the future of transportation?

biodiesel is not and could not be a widespread or long-term solution, but right now the stuff is just sitting in the trash...might at well be put to use. It's not like people are frying potatoes at home just to fuel their cars

 

[nater]

So many oil/car companies are doing the eco-friendly PR thing, which solves nothing and only prolongs the problem. That BP commercial where at the end it displays "Beyond Petroleum" is just ridiculous. As profit-seeking companies, they will do whatever makes the most profit in the present and short-term future.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Its also to easily meet goverment requirements.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
E85 isn't even remotely viable as a fuel for our nation's needs, as has been shown again and again. it's like biodiesel: it's great for the 2 dozen cars in the nation that run it, but you could never make enough of it (nor create it effeciently enough) to use it for more cars than that.

biodiesel really blows my mind. imagine how much energy is expended and polution is made by the time that McDonald's oil is put in the garbage containers... and this is supposed to be the future of transportation?

Yes. It's called recycling.

 

[desy]

Bio diesel is the future.
Turbo diesels are more efficient than gasoline or E85 and soon as they make it from algae the energy crisis is over.

 

[Blazin Trav]

E85 for the win. More hybrids is a start, but we need even better tech than that.

 

[Strk]

A diesel engine isn't that much more expensive -- maybe around $1k. It can go higher with a more complicated diesel engine (BMW's bi-turbo comes to mind). But with hybrids, you will probably only average around a 5-10% increase in fuel economy, perhaps higher if you drive very carefully. Yet a hybrid comes with a huge premium. The Honda Civic Hybrid is basically an upgraded Civic LX. The hybrid has at least a $6-7k premium. A diesel, on the other hand, will manage at least a 30% increase in fuel economy, but only have a $1k premium.

Bob Lutz is just pushing E85. In its current form (or source, rather), ethanol is a waste of time.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
"The reduction in fuel [consumption] does not pay for the technological content and cost of the vehicle so therefore economically it remains fairly nonsensical..."

That is why I won't buy a hybrid.

Yeah, but with government welfare, you may still come out on top

Otherwise, it definitely makes sense...GM'll probably lose $X million on hybrids but get enough good advertising to make up for the difference

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: Strk
A diesel engine isn't that much more expensive -- maybe around $1k. It can go higher with a more complicated diesel engine (BMW's bi-turbo comes to mind). But with hybrids, you will probably only average around a 5-10% increase in fuel economy, perhaps higher if you drive very carefully. Yet a hybrid comes with a huge premium. The Honda Civic Hybrid is basically an upgraded Civic LX. The hybrid has at least a $6-7k premium. A diesel, on the other hand, will manage at least a 30% increase in fuel economy, but only have a $1k premium.

Bob Lutz is just pushing E85. In its current form (or source, rather), ethanol is a waste of time.

yes, corn based ethanol is not viable.

but there are numerous other viable ways to produce E-85.

 

[Indolent]

As hybrid technology matures they will become cheaper. Saying that it is a waste of time just because it is expensive now just sounds dumb. And, why aren't there any hybrid E-85 cars?

 

[RU482]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i don't think E85 is the answer. that is just a giant subsidy to corn farmers. like ADM needs my help.

they're going to get the subsudy whether the corn is used to make ethanol + cattle feed or if it is used to just make cattle feed

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: Indolent
As hybrid technology matures they will become cheaper. Saying that it is a waste of time just because it is expensive now just sounds dumb. And, why aren't there any hybrid E-85 cars?

the only ppl pumping out hybrids right now, dont have E-85 cars available.

 

[sandorski]

It's shocking he still has a Job. His comments are exactly why GM is on life support and could join the mighty extinct dinosaurs he's so fond of using as fuel.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sandorski
It's shocking he still has a Job. His comments are exactly why GM is on life support and could join the mighty extinct dinosaurs he's so fond of using as fuel.

After all you've been told here, you STILL believe that hybrids don't run solely on fossil fuels??

The truth is that what he said is completely true. Your sad response just goes to show that some uninformed people still can't break their brainwashing and continue to insist that consumption is conservation.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Excuse my neffing self, however I think the answer to all these issues is teleportation via the internet.