Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez

[Arkaign]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._re_mi_ea/sanchez_iraq

"The U.S. mission in Iraq is a "nightmare with no end in sight" because of political misjudgments after the fall of Saddam Hussein that continue today, a former chief of U.S.-led forces said Friday."

"The American military finds itself in an intractable situation ... America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq,"

Well, it's nice to know that at least after they're released from the political theatre that has descended into pure lunacy, that these guys can speak their mind in plain language. Wonder what Petraeus will have to say when his time ends.

 

[ProfJohn]

He also said

"The American military finds itself in an intractable situation ... America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq," I'm sure you guys will ignore that part of his comments though...

 

[Narmer]

Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
He also said

"The American military finds itself in an intractable situation ... America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq," I'm sure you guys will ignore that part of his comments though...

Nope, noticed that in plain english. I agree to a point, though I don't believe it will do much good. We're going to be there, and stay there, indefinitely, until the war widens to regional/global proportions.

EDIT : I'll put that quote in the OP, so you can find something else to complain about

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

I think the only hope for peace is partitioning, with heavy walls, and an regionally managed oil-revenue-sharing authority.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

Except the same people that continually parrot this point also pointed out that it would be a cakewalk/slamdunk, that he had caches of WMDs and mobile weapons labs, etc. These people have no credibility and don't offer any substantial evidence to prove their new points about how leaving would be a disaster. And neither do you. Therefore, no one reasonable believes them.

 

[UberNeuman]

Why can't they be all nice and white and just get along....

 

[First]

Btw, how many retired generals now have come out openly against the war in Iraq? How many have come out for the war in Iraq? It's telling that our military leaders think, unanimously from what I've seen, that Iraq was/is a mistake/disaster. Puts much needed perspective into a situation that desperately requires it.

 

[Arkaign]

Another article on this, with even more severe comments : http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...b4CVNtwUIuK_E2G2oUewgF

"There has been a glaring, unfortunate display of incompetent strategic leadership within our national leaders," Sanchez told a group of military reporters, according to a copy of his remarks."

"America has not been fully committed to win this war," he said. "Partisan politics have hindered this war effort."

Sanchez said military commanders on the ground would continue to make progress in Iraq, providing time in which a "grand strategy" could be developed. But he predicted the effort would be wasted and in the meantime U.S. troops "will continue to die."

He urged that the U.S. force presence be quickly reduced "given the lack of a grand strategy." But the United States had no choice but to stay in Iraq, given the prospects of regional instability if it withdrew suddenly, he said.

"There is nothing going on today in Washington that would give us hope," he said.

Hmm, I wonder what would happen in a joint interview with this guy and Patraeus. I'm looking forward to Petraeus's comments when he's able to speak freely, without his career on the line.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

I think the only hope for peace is partitioning, with heavy walls, and an regionally managed oil-revenue-sharing authority.

Heh, the good ole Divide and Conquer eh? That should keep the natives calm...

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

I think the only hope for peace is partitioning, with heavy walls, and an regionally managed oil-revenue-sharing authority.

Heh, the good ole Divide and Conquer eh? That should keep the natives calm...

Not really, the British empire drew the lines of Iraq somewhat arbitrarily. The Sunni, Shia, and Kurdish tribes all need their own space/government/economy/security, as they will never be satisfied sharing it. I view this as a fix, giving them 3 countries as opposed to 1 inferno.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Btw, how many retired generals now have come out openly against the war in Iraq? How many have come out for the war in Iraq? It's telling that our military leaders think, unanimously from what I've seen, that Iraq was/is a mistake/disaster. Puts much needed perspective into a situation that desperately requires it.

The ?perspective? you are talking about is for history books.

Whether Iraq was a mistake or not is irrelevant to the choices that face us today.

Too many people on the left are more interested in settling scores ?See!!! We told you it was as mistake.? Than dealing with the situation as it exists today.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

He urged that the U.S. force presence be quickly reduced "given the lack of a grand strategy." But the United States had no choice but to stay in Iraq, given the prospects of regional instability if it withdrew suddenly, he said.

"There is nothing going on today in Washington that would give us hope," he said.

And this is exactly what the anti-war people are talking about. You now have another general essentially mirroring most anti-war talking points (and I mean that in a positive way). That the war IS lost because Washington refuses to change their strategy/tactics, actually change them, drastically. It's not that people are invested in defeat; it's that they know the war is lost the way it is being fought right now, and so we don't have any choice but to expect a lost cause in Iraq. I also agree that immediate withdrawal, thanks to the utter incompetance of Rumsfeld, is not an option as it used to be in 04, 05, and 06, because it has gotten so bad. But withdrawal is, indeed, in order. As all the retired Iraqi generals who have spoken publicly will tell you.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Btw, how many retired generals now have come out openly against the war in Iraq? How many have come out for the war in Iraq? It's telling that our military leaders think, unanimously from what I've seen, that Iraq was/is a mistake/disaster. Puts much needed perspective into a situation that desperately requires it.

The ?perspective? you are talking about is for history books.

Whether Iraq was a mistake or not is irrelevant to the choices that face us today.

Too many people on the left are more interested in settling scores ?See!!! We told you it was as mistake.? Than dealing with the situation as it exists today.

The situation that exists today is related to the situation that existed in 2003. The two situations are not mutually exclusive because, in the end, what has changed? Exactly, nothing; same country, same strategy, same leaders with no credibility. And therefore, same result.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Btw, how many retired generals now have come out openly against the war in Iraq? How many have come out for the war in Iraq? It's telling that our military leaders think, unanimously from what I've seen, that Iraq was/is a mistake/disaster. Puts much needed perspective into a situation that desperately requires it.

The ?perspective? you are talking about is for history books.

Whether Iraq was a mistake or not is irrelevant to the choices that face us today.

Too many people on the left are more interested in settling scores ?See!!! We told you it was as mistake.? Than dealing with the situation as it exists today.

The situation that exists today is related to the situation that existed in 2003. The two situations are not mutually exclusive because, in the end, what has changed? Exactly, nothing; same country, same strategy, same leaders with no credibility. And therefore, same result.

And despite that assertion most of these Generals all say we must stay? why is that?

Why are you so quick to accept his ?we screwed up? assertion, but so quick to dismiss the ?we need to stay? assertion?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

Your fantasy Non prof John is in ignoring the fact that Sanchez stated that the war was lost before he even started due to the political blunders of GWB&co.

Why do we look to GWB&co to fix what GWB&co. broke with total cluelessness?

I agree with you that simply withdrawing would create greater problems, but we also have to realize progress is impossible while GWB&co. is in charge. And that Non Prof John is simply what you cannot come to grips with or admit.

Iraq is now a political and not a military problem. Its will only be fixed through the diplomacy GWB&co. is not willing to even start.

 

[tomywishbone]

I strongly disagree with the Lt. General. Perhaps his 33 years of military experience is clouding his judgement. It is my opinion, as an expert, that the invasion & occupation is going great. Thank you.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I strongly disagree with the Lt. General. Perhaps his 33 years of military experience is clouding his judgement. It is my opinion, as an expert, that the stability our troops provide needs to end NOW. Thank you.

Fixed.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

I wonder if any of our politicians were smart enough to realize that before we started this War of Agression and Pre-Emptive Killings?

 

[First]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

And despite that assertion most of these Generals all say we must stay? why is that?

Because it has gotten worse this year than in 04, 05, and 06? That's what these generals are saying; that it's gotten so bad that we have to stay a little longer. Not 5 years, but months, be it 12 or 18 months or what have you. Which I agree with; except that Bush doesn't and neither do most neoconservatives. For them, it's stay, for a long time, with no significant withdrawal in sight. That isn't what the generals are saying at all, though Wesley Clark would still prefer to withdraw more quickly than most from everything I've heard him say.

Fact is, nothing these 4-star generals have said would support the administration position. They're not as extreme as the fringe left-wing anti-war guys, but they're also more anti-war than pretty much any neoconservative or Republican in Congress.

Why are you so quick to accept his ?we screwed up? assertion, but so quick to dismiss the ?we need to stay? assertion?

I'm not. It's pretty clear none of these generals support the administration position of long-term Iraqi occupation of major forces with no withdrawal date specified. And weren't you saying the exact opposite of these generals last year? What happened?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
He also said

"The American military finds itself in an intractable situation ... America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq," I'm sure you guys will ignore that part of his comments though...

Wow. You can't tell the difference between a military mans description of a military situation and when he decides to give a political opinion.
Guess which one he is qualified to give?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

So why is it that so many Republicans still think it was the right thing to do? SO MANY.

Whether Iraq was a mistake or not is irrelevant to the choices that face us today.

Of course it's not, because currently the people who are leading this effort are at least publically stating that it was not a mistake. If those of reasonable mind think it was and the others do not, how are they equipped with the rationality and intelligence to deal with it? They are not.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

So why is it that so many Republicans still think it was the right thing to do? SO MANY.

Whether Iraq was a mistake or not is irrelevant to the choices that face us today.

Of course it's not, because currently the people who are leading this effort are at least publically stating that it was not a mistake. If those of reasonable mind think it was and the others do not, how are they equipped with the rationality and intelligence to deal with it? They are not.

That and the fact that someone set the house on fire and it needs to be put out does NOT mean the one that lit it shouldn't be held accountable.

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
Only the soldiers, taxpayers, and those with moral fortitude have a problem with this war. But there are others that simply love it. Worms gotta eat. Vultures gotta eat. Gravediggers gotta work, right?

ummm I don't think anyone likes this war, but someone of us realize that ending it would creater even more problems.

So why is it that so many Republicans still think it was the right thing to do? SO MANY.

Whether Iraq was a mistake or not is irrelevant to the choices that face us today.

Of course it's not, because currently the people who are leading this effort are at least publically stating that it was not a mistake. If those of reasonable mind think it was and the others do not, how are they equipped with the rationality and intelligence to deal with it? They are not.

That and the fact that someone set the house on fire and it needs to be put out does NOT mean the one that lit it shouldn't be held accountable.

Janurary 1st 2009 can't come early enough....