Info LPDDR6 @ Q3-2024: Mother of All CPU Upgrades

Tigerick

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DDR6.png

SamsungCost.jpg

LPDDR6 @ Q3-2024 ?

According to Samsung:
Next up is the LPDDR6, the next-generation JEDEC standard low-power DRAM, and it is no surprise that Samsung is leading the industry in defining the specification.
It seems JEDEC has approved the LPDDR6 standard (Update: Q3 2024) then Hynix and Samsung are going to mass produce LPDDR6. Micron is surprisingly not listing LPDDR6 in their roadmap...

Memory TypesSpeed64-Bit128-Bit192-Bit256-Bit384-Bit512-Bit
LPDDR5640051 GB/s102 GB/s154 GB/s205 GB/s360 GB/s410 GB/s
LPDDR5X853368 GB/s136 GB/s205 GB/s273 GB/s410 GB/s546 GB/s

LPDDR6 Speed24-Bit Base48-Bit72-Bit96-Bit120-Bit ?192-Bit288-Bit384-Bit
10.667 Gbps28.4 GBps57 GB/s85 GB/s114 GB/s142 GB/s228 GB/s
12 Gbps ?32 GBps64 GB/s96 GB/s128 GB/s160 GB/s256 GB/s
14.4 Gbps38.4 GBps77 GB/s115 GB/s154 GB/s192 GB/s307 GB/s

  • 48/72-bit LPDDR6 most likely going to be used on future smartphone. Based on timing, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 8G4 which is manufactured by N3E going to become first OEMs to employ LPDDR6. Of course, Mediatek should follow closely...
  • 96-bit and 120-bit (?) LPDDR6 are going to become defacto choice of mainstream notebook computer.
  • When Apple announced M3 Pro with 192-bit LPDDR5 support, I wonder what is Tim cooking? I think 192-bit LPDDR6 going to become next generation higher performance tier. Due to wider bandwidth gap, Apple will likely use 192-bit LPDDR6 for future M4 Pro while reserving 288-bit and 384-bit LPDDR6 for flagship model, namely M4 Max/Ultra.



DDR6-9600 @ FY2028 ?

Unfortunately, there may be some delays on DDR6 DIMM/SO-DIMM according to Samsung:

The roadmap calls for yearly DDR5 speed upgrades of up to 8800Mbps by the year 2027 with 9600Mbps DDR6 projected to be available by the year of 2028 with even higher speed rates.

Luckily, CPUs are not memory bound atm. That's mean even with doubling core counts,128-bit DDR5-8800 should have enough memory bandwidth, we shall see...

Memory TypesSpeed64-Bit128-Bit
DDR4 (16-core Zen 3)320026 GB/s51 GB/s
DDR5 (16-core Zen 4)520042 GB/s83 GB/s
DDR5 (Arrow Lake-S)640051 GB/s102 GB/s
DDR5720058 GB/s115 GB/s
DDR5 (Nova Lake-S)800064 GB/s128 GB/s
DDR5880070 GB/s141 GB/s



LPDDR5/DDR5 Announcement's Timeline
  1. At an online event on October 18, 2021, Apple announced their first MacBook Pro14/16 with M1 Pro/Max supporting latest LPDDR5-6400.
  2. Few days later, Intel announced Alder Lake which can support both DDR4/DDR5 memory.
  3. At CES 2022, AMD announced the Ryzen 6000 mobile series supporting DDR5/LPDDR5 only.
Apple, Intel and AMD are launching all their latest generation of CPU/APU within same timeframe. Based on timings, they should be working on the design three years ago, ie FY2019.That is the year JEDEC officially announced LPDDR5-6400 standard.

DDR5-6400 standard was announced in July 2020; one and half years later. That's mean Intel and AMD are working on DDR5 before official standard being announced.



Upcoming SoC with 72-bit LPDDR6: Redefine Value PC Segment

MacBook Air 13ARM 72-bit MCSurface Go 3Inspiron 14
Launch Price$999$730$499
EOL Price$699$600$280
NodeTSMC N5Intel 3 / TSMC N3EIntel 14nmTSMC N7
CPUM1i3-10100Y8cx Gen2
Core Counts4P + 4E2P + 6E / 4P + 4E2P / 4T4P + 4E
GB6 1T235412111093
GB6 MT840415223777
Memory8GB LPDDR4x12GB LPDDR68GB LPDDR38GB LPDDR4x
Memory BW68 GB/sGB/s33.3 GB/s68 GB/s
GPU8 coresUHD 615 24EUAdreno 690
FP322.6 TF~ 4 TF0.4 TF~ 2 TF
AIE11 TOPS~ 40 TOPS ?NA9 TOPS
FeaturesUnibody
Retina 2560x1600
15-Hour Wireless Web
LTE
3:2 Multi-Touch
5G Option
 
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Tigerick

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AMD: ~2025 for Sarlak6

Memory TypesSpeed64-Bit128-Bit192-Bit256-Bit
LPDDR5(X)5500-8533MendocinoHawk PointSarlakSarlak
Sonoma ValleyKraken Point
Strix Point



YearSarlak's CPUSarlak's GPUMemoryMemory BWEstimated CPU's BWGPU BWRX 7600M (RDNA3, N6)
202516 x Zen 5RDNA3+ 40CU256-bit LPDDR5X-8533273 GB/s42 GB/s231 GB/s256 GB/s
2 X N4PN3E24 - 32 GB28 CU @ 2.41GHz



CPUModelCoresNodetCPUL3 CacheTDPGB6 SinglePoints Per WattCB 2024 SinglePoints Per WattGB6 MultiPoints Per WattCB 2024 MultiPoints Per Watt
Zen 2Ryzen 9 3950X16N7264 MB105 W170516.2740.7010691101.8132512.6
Zen 3Ryzen 9 5950X16N7264 MB105 W218520.8950.9012246116.6149414.2
Zen 4Ryzen 9 7950X16N5264 MB170 W293617.31250.7419293113.5214212.6
Zen 5Ryzen 9 9950X16N4P264 MB170 W
Zen 6?16N3P132 MB ??
Zen 6C?32N2164 MB ??
 
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Tigerick

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Qualcomm: ~Q4 2025 for X Elite G2

X Elite G1X Elite G2Hawk PointStrix Point
NodeN4PN3PN4N4P
SoCMonolithicsMonolithicsMonolithicsMonolithics
Memory TypesLPDDR5X-8533LPDDR5X-7500LPDDR5X-8533
Memory Bus128-bit128-bit128-bit
Memory BW136 GB/s120 GB/s136 GB/s
CPU12P OryonPegasus ?8P Zen44 x Zen5 + 8 x Zen5c
GPUAdrenoAdrenoRDNA3RDNA3+
RTNAY ??Y
SM/CU12 CU16 CU
FP324.6 TF?4.3 TF~ 6.1 TF
AIE (TOPS)45?1650
 
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Tigerick

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Apple: Q4-2024 for M4 series ?

Memory Density 16Gb (2GB)M3M3 ProM3 MaxM3 Max
LPDDR5 Memory Bus128-bit192-bit384-bit512-bit
Memory BW100 GB/s150 GB/s308 GB/s410 GB/s
Memory Chips2 pcs3 pcs3 pcs4 pcs
x2 = 4GB (S: 32-Gb)8 GB
x3 = 6GB (M: 48-Gb)18 GB
x4 = 8GB (S: 64-Gb)16 GB
x6 = 12GB (S: 96-Gb)24 GB36 GB36 GB48 GB
x8 = 16GB (S: 128-Gb)64 GB
x16 = 32GB (256-Gb)96 GB128 GB



Memory Density 32Gb (4GB)M4+M4 ProM4 MaxM4 Max
LPDDR6 Memory Bus96-bit192-bit288-bit384-bit
Memory BWGB/sGB/sGB/sGB/s
BW+
Memory Chips1 pc2 pcs3 pcs4 pcs
x3 = 12GB12 GB24 GB36 GB48 GB
x5 = 20GB20 GB40 GB80 GB
x7 = 28GB28 GB56 GB
x8 = 32GB96 GB128 GB
x12 = 48GB192 GB
x16 = 64GB256 GB



Apple SiliconDateNodeTransistorsSLCMemoryCPUGPU
M3Q4 2023N3B25 B8 MB8GB 128-bit LPDDR54P + 4E10 RT
M4+2025 ?N3B12 MB ?12GB 96-bit LPDDR6??
M3 ProQ4 2023N3B37 B12 MB18GB 192-bit LPDDR56P + 6E18 RT
M4 Pro2025 ?N3B24 MB ?24GB 192-bit LPDDR6??
M3 MaxQ4 2023N3B92 B48 MB36GB 384-bit LPDDR510P + 4E30 RT
M4 Max2025 ?N3B36 MB ?36GB 288-bit LPDDR6??
M3 MaxQ4 2023N3B92 B64 MB48GB 512-bit LPDDR512P + 4E40 RT
M4 Max2025 ?N3B48 MB ?48GB 384-bit LPDDR6??


Clock SpeedGB6 1TPoints Per ClockGB6 MTGPU coresMetalPoints Per Core
M13.2 GHz235473684048321044013
M23.49 GHz2634754975310456564566
M34.06 GHz30847601156410473724737

MemoryMemory BWGPU coresMetalPoints Per Core
M1 Pro256-bit200 GB/s16662584141
M2 Pro256-bit200 GB/s19815514292
M3 Pro192-bit150 GB/s18782184345
M4 Pro192-bit LPDDR6GB/s???


CPU coresClock SpeedGB6 1TPoints Per ClockGB6 MTGPU coresMetalPoints Per Core
M1 Max8P + 2E3.2 GHz238174412233321133883543
M2 Max8P + 4E3.66 GHz273874814518381376773623
M3 Max 384-Bit10P + 4E4.06 GHz312376919001301236184121
M3 Max12P + 4E4.06 GHz312577020984401542453856
 
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Tigerick

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Intel: ~Q4 2026 for Nova Lake-H

Desktop CPU
  1. Arrow Lake-S 8P+16E (N3B): Q4 2024
  2. Arrow Lake-S 8P+32E (N3B): Q4 2025
  3. Nova Lake-S 16P+32E (18A-P/N2): Q4 2026 comes with 128-bit DDR5-8000
Mobile APU:
  • Nova Lake-H 8P+16E (Intel 18A-P ?) + Celestial (N3P ?): Q4 2026
Lunar LakeMeteor Lake
ICU7-164U

Alder Lake-N i3-N300
Panther Lake-HNova Lake-S / HX
DateQ4 2024Q4 2023Q1 2023Q4 2025Q4 2026
NodeN3B + N6Intel 4 + N5 + N6 + N6Intel 718A + N3EN2 + Intel 3
TDP17 - 30 W9 - 30 W7 W
Memory128-bit LPDDR5X-8533128-bit LPDDR5X-640064-bit LPDDR5-4800128-bit LPDDR5X-8533128-bit DDR5-8000
Memory BW136 GB/s102 GB/s38.4 GB/s136 GB/s128 GB/s
CPU4P + 4E2P + 8E8E / 8T4P + 8E16P + 32E ?
GPUARC 8 XE4 XEUHD 32EUARC 12 XE4 XE
Clock Speed1.85 GHz1.8 GHz1.25 GHz2.5 GHz?
FP323.8 TF1.8 TF0.6 TF7.7 TF?
 
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DDR5 not going beyond 8800 MT/s is disappointing.

DDR6, whenever it gets released, is going to have terrible CAS latency compared to DDR5 and the same old crap will ensue where you have to wait a year or two for the newer RAM standard to get fast enough to leave the older standard behind. This, in my opinion, is the great RAM speed scam.

Why do they even release a new generation of memory when the previous more mature standard already beats it at its fastest available speeds? DDR5-4800 vs. DDR4-4000 was a sick joke.

Why don't these "brilliant" engineers actually try to bring the latencies down to an acceptable level before proudly touting their new technologies? It's actually not their fault. They would never release something half baked into the world if it were up to them. It's the profit craving executives/bean counters calling the shots at these big companies. The bane of every techie's existence.

/rant
 

itsmydamnation

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DDR5 not going beyond 8800 MT/s is disappointing.

DDR6, whenever it gets released, is going to have terrible CAS latency compared to DDR5 and the same old crap will ensue where you have to wait a year or two for the newer RAM standard to get fast enough to leave the older standard behind. This, in my opinion, is the great RAM speed scam.

Why do they even release a new generation of memory when the previous more mature standard already beats it at its fastest available speeds? DDR5-4800 vs. DDR4-4000 was a sick joke.

Why don't these "brilliant" engineers actually try to bring the latencies down to an acceptable level before proudly touting their new technologies? It's actually not their fault. They would never release something half baked into the world if it were up to them. It's the profit craving executives/bean counters calling the shots at these big companies. The bane of every techie's existence.

/rant
Because DRAM cells haven't improved in like 30 years. What your asking for will result in 0 investment in creating memory that delivers higher performance because the upfront investment before any type of return just exploded. Tech is diminishing return curves and the next curve always starts bellow the end of the last one.

Get over it.
 
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What your asking for will result in 0 investment in creating memory that delivers higher performance
Problem is, they are creating higher bandwidth memory to feed more cores which is mostly a server sector problem.

Consumers don't really need that much bandwidth coz most of them don't have that many cores to feed.

Consumers need the lowest possible latency.

It's insulting to have to eat food cooked for "servers" when consumer CPUs far outnumber server CPUs.

One should never back down from speaking against injustice.
 

SarahKerrigan

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Problem is, they are creating higher bandwidth memory to feed more cores which is mostly a server sector problem.

Consumers don't really need that much bandwidth coz most of them don't have that many cores to feed.

Consumers need the lowest possible latency.

It's insulting to have to eat food cooked for "servers" when consumer CPUs far outnumber server CPUs.

One should never back down from speaking against injustice.

Injustice! How dramatic.
 

poke01

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sigh but LPDDR6/X needs to be an option on desktop. PC handhelds and Win laptops/tabs are going to be even more great for gaming.
 

itsmydamnation

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Problem is, they are creating higher bandwidth memory to feed more cores which is mostly a server sector problem.

Consumers don't really need that much bandwidth coz most of them don't have that many cores to feed.

Consumers need the lowest possible latency.

It's insulting to have to eat food cooked for "servers" when consumer CPUs far outnumber server CPUs.

One should never back down from speaking against injustice.
put your money where your mouth is then and invest in a dram replacement company then.

edit: your also ignoring the improvements that come from more concurrency at the same latency
 

SarahKerrigan

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Easy for you to make fun of the common man from your high horse.

The majority of tech consumers do not have access to fancy server hardware.

Hardly making fun of the common man or anyone else. If anything, I'm glad someone appreciates the hard work of the architects of several generations of RLDRAM and QDR SRAM.

The pricing, of course, is the less appealing part.
 

FlameTail

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Qualcomm: ~Q2 2026 for X Elite G2

X Elite G1X Elite G2nVidiaPanther LakeAMDStrix Point
NodeN4PN3PN3P18A + 3+N3PN4P
SoCMonolithicsMonolithicsMonolithics2 TilesMonolithicsMonolithics
Memory TypesLPDDR5X-8533LPDDR6-12800LPDDR6-12800LPDDR5X-8533LPDDR6-12800LPDDR5X-8533
Memory Bus128-bit128-bit128-bit128-bit128-bit128-bit
Memory BW136 GB/s205 GB/s205 GB/s136 GB/s205 GB/s136 GB/s
CPU12P OryonPegasus ??4P+8E?4 x Zen5 + 8 x Zen5c
GPUAdrenoAdrenoBlackwell ?ArcRDNA3+RDNA3+
RTNAY ?YYYY
FP324.6 TF??7.7 TF?~ 6.1 TF
AIE (TOPS)45??50 ??50
Hey where did you get the X Elite G2 launch date from?
 

FlameTail

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Estimated
X Elite G2 coming in Q2 2026?

That is crazy. 2.5 years from X Elite announcement and 2 years from X Elite release?

That makes no sense. Bad estimate imo.

Intel and AMD will kill Qualcomm's renewed WoA effort, if Qualcomm releases the X Elite successor so long after.
 

FlameTail

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Dec 15, 2021
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Here's what I think:

2023Q4 : X Elite announced
2024Q2 : X Elite released
2025Q4: X2 Elite announced/released (estimate)
2026Q4 : X3 Elite announced/released (estimate)

Q4 is when Qualcomm holds their annual Snapdragon Summits. If X2 Elite is announced/released at 2025Q4 SS, that is 2 years after X Elite announcement, and 1.5 years after X Elite release. That sounds much more reasonable.
 

Glo.

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Apr 25, 2015
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Problem is, they are creating higher bandwidth memory to feed more cores which is mostly a server sector problem.

Consumers don't really need that much bandwidth coz most of them don't have that many cores to feed.

Consumers need the lowest possible latency.

It's insulting to have to eat food cooked for "servers" when consumer CPUs far outnumber server CPUs.

One should never back down from speaking against injustice.
For latency you will have to have large system level caches.

Thats the reality of future, even consumer products.
 

FlameTail

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@Tigerick

The chart says 2026-LPDDR6, but you know what?

Assuming the Snapdragon X2 Elite launches in 2026-Q2 (or any other PC SoC for that matter), it's doubtful it will have LPDDR6, let alone the top spec LPDDR6-12800.

The reason is that initially LPDDR6 will be very expensive, limited in volume and won't reach the max speed of 12800.

2020 was the maiden year for LPDDR5, being shipped widely in flagship Android smartphones. But these LPDDR5-5500, and it was not until 2021 that the full spec LPDDR5-6400 shipped widely.

LPDDR6 will follow a similar path. If 2026 is the maiden year for LPDDR6, in that year it will be limited to mostly flagship Android phones (which are low volume), and will probably be LPDDR6-11000 or something.

Large volume of LPDDR6 and full speed 12800 will come in 2027.
 
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Tigerick

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Even though the article is dated two days ago, the content is actually translated from Germany website pcwelt.de about Tech Day 2021. Some errors are to be expected: -

  • DDR6-12800 is actually meant LPDDR6-12800 as stated in my front page. Samsung actually said DDR6 DIMM is delayed beyond 2028. Therefore, what the article claimed: "The new DDR6 memory will celebrate its debut in the professional enterprise segment and is expected to be used for the first time with the server CPUs of the 2025 vintage" could be wrong. That might explain the expansion of 12-channel DDR5 to 16-channel in upcoming AMD EPYC server platform.
  • My estimated LPDDR6X is rated at 16000 MT/s derived from Samsung roadmap. According to Samsung, they need advanced EUV (High-NA?) to hit the speed of 8Gbps, therefore don't expect LPDDR6X to hit the market soon.
  • Calculations of memory bandwidth are wrong on DDR6/LPDDR6, you guys can check my table to find out each corresponding memory bandwidth with different memory bus.
Some worthy information below:
  • Samsung has already announced that it is currently working on finalizing the DDR6 memory standard together with the other JEDEC members from the circle of DRAM and SoC manufacturers. According to the manufacturer, this is expected in the course of 2024, but no later than 2025.
  • The chief engineer of the South Korean semiconductor manufacturer SK Hynix, on the other hand, expects a somewhat longer development phase and does not anticipate a broad market launch before the end of 2025.
  • As with the switch from DDR4 to DDR5, the feature set of the new memory generation will once again be significantly expanded. All relevant DRAM chip manufacturers, such as Samsung, Micron, Nanya, and SK Hynix, have already revealed this.
While Samsung might be preparing to launch LPDDR6 in 2025, Hynix expected broad market launch of LPDDR6 by end of 2025 is aligned with what Samsung roadmap revealed. Of course, delay could happen but Q4 2025 is the projected launch windows of SoC with LPDDR6-12800...
 
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Tigerick

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Large volume of LPDDR6 and full speed 12800 will come in 2027.
Do you still think about 2027? How about I show you the leaks below:

SD Gen5.png

Last time you shown me the slide, I thought SD 8 Gen 5 should use N3P, but what if the Korean guy is correct? Then the slide below might explain the LPDDR6 version of SD coming in 2025 which means Q4....

SD-N3E.png
 
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Tigerick

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MicronRoadmap.png

As I learned more about Samsung roadmap, I think I know why Micron might not be able to produce LPDDR6 memory. LPDDR6 needs to hit 6.4Gbps speed in order to arrive at 12800. They need EUV machine to make it. Currently only Samsung and Hynix have enough EUV machines to mass produce it.

If you are familar with Micron, they are producing current memory with DUV (older generation of machinery), thus they are only able to hit 4.8Gbps with LPDDR5X. Unless Micron is migrating to EUV, they won't be able to make LPDDR6. Yeah, that's mean Micron has dropped out of race.

As for people wondering about the BOM, they should at least learn about EUV advantage. Yeah, the machine is expensive so does the wafer, but the advantages are smaller die size with bigger capacity and higher clock speed. Especially bundle with standard 64-bit memory bus, the PCB would be cheaper too...
 
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