Low Tech Guy w/ PSU Questions

[Medicius]

Hi Folks,

lopri helped me out with some Motherboard questions and then directed me here for assistance with picking out a good PSU and getting some possible questions answered. My end goal is to find a PSU that's rated well and that will have a less likely chance of failure. I also prefer a Modular Cable design. Aesthetically speaking, if it has a "glow", I'd prefer Blue.

I used the Antec Calculator to find out how much wattage I need to sort my search by. Next I used the 80 Plus list and searched first on Gold/Silver ratings then on 87-90% ratings. That being said, I need to find out more information about amperage and the rails. I did read the stickied posts here at the top of the post list. But I'm not quite sure how I go about determining what I need. Also, I'm not positive on cable connector types.

Connectors:
SATA - used for HDD and SSD? Anything else?
PCIe - Used for Graphics Cards? 6+2 Pin vs 6 Pin? What's the difference and where are the extra 2 pins used?
Molex - Used for?
12v ATS, EPS? Do these have specific uses in any motherboard or are they specifically called for in only certain motherboards, hardware, etc?

What I need now vs. may need in the future:
Calculated Needs (Present):
System Type: Single Processor
Motherboard: High End - Desktop
CPU: Intel Core i7 860 2800 MHz Lynnfield
CPU Utilization (TDP): 85% TDP
RAM: 2 Sticks DDR2 SDRAM
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 (700/1400)
Video Type: Single Card
IDE HDD 7200 rpm: 1 HDD
DRAM SSD: 1 Drive
DVD/CDRW Combo Drive: 1 Drive
PCI Network Interface Card: Yes
Sound Blaster - All Models: Yes
PCI-e x1 Card: 1 Card
PCI-e x16 Card: 1 Card
USB: 6 Devices
Keyboard and mouse: Yes
System Load: 90 %
Recommended Wattage: 456 Watts


Calcluated Needs (Future):
System Type: Single Processor
Motherboard: High End - Desktop
CPU: Intel Core i7 860 2800 MHz Lynnfield
CPU Utilization (TDP): 85% TDP
RAM: 4 Sticks DDR2 SDRAM
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 (700/1400)
Video Type: SLI
IDE HDD 7200 rpm: 2 HDDs
DRAM SSD: 1 Drive
Blu-Ray Internal Drive: 1 Drive
DVD-RW/DVD+RW Drive: 1 Drive
PCI Network Interface Card: Yes
Sound Blaster w/ Front Bay: Yes
Additional PCI Card (avg): 2 Cards
PCI-e x1 Card: 1 Card
PCI-e x8 Card: 2 Cards
PCI-e x16 Card: 1 Card
USB: 6 Devices
Fan Controller: Yes
Keyboard and mouse: Yes
System Load: 90 %
Recommended Wattage: 727 Watts

With that in mind I have started looking for 750W PSU's. Below are the following that I've looked at and like. But can you please comment on them, or add in any you feel would be a good choice? I really would appreciate the assistance.

PSU's I've Looked At:
Note: I'm currently using an Antec model that has served me well - and I may end up going with them based on that comfort level. But it was a non-researched purchase, so this time around I want to make sure I know what I'm getting.

Antec TP-750 Blue
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371022

Antec TruePower Quattro 850W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371009

Antec EarthWatts EA 750
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371026

OCZ Z Series 850W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817341026

Seasonic M12D-850
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817151067

Thermaltake Toughpower 750W W0131RU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817153043


Thank you in advance for any assistance,

Medicius

 

[HOOfan 1]

Of what you have already looked at I would suggest one of the following

the Antec Truepower New...with or without Blue fan
The Seasonic M12D...you can get it cheaper on ewiz.com or Amazon.com

The OCZ and Thermaltake are ok also.....but the above are better values. In fact the Thermaltake and OCZ are actually terrible values, although they are good power supplies. I don't think I would choose the Earathwatts 750W at all.

I would also extend your search to the Corsair HX750 and HX850, the XFX Black Edition 850W, the Antec Signature 850W, and the Seasonic X-750 (fully modular).
Check out places like ewiz and amazon for better prices...or check out pricegrabber.com

 

[Medicius]

Update on Researched PSU's.

I've looked at (original)
PSU's I've Looked At:
Note: I'm currently using an Antec model that has served me well - and I may end up going with them based on that comfort level. But it was a non-researched purchase, so this time around I want to make sure I know what I'm getting.

Antec TP-750 Blue
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371022
- A reviewer at Newegg said that they have the Antec 1200 case and the 4 and 8 pin cables aren't long enough to run behind the MB Tray. I think this one is out.

Antec TruePower Quattro 850W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371009
- Reviews stating clip strength is low. Possible loud fan, but what's loud to someone? My 900 case has all fans running at medium speed and I think it's quiet.

Antec EarthWatts EA 750
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371026
- Some complaints about 4 pin length in the 900 case. Also some concerns with fan noise. One review stated that there weren't enough connections to power all of the fans in the 900 too.

OCZ Z Series 850W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817341026
- I only saw the one review. I guess it is a little expensive, but if the connections are long enough to work in a full tower case...well, that combined with 90 Plus Gold rating keeps this in the running.

Seasonic M12D-850
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817151067
- Two reviews concerning power arcs and smoke, two reviews concerning high pitched whine, two reviews relating RMA's on first unit. I'm not familiar with SeaSonic, but this concerns me when it's only out of 12 total reviews.

Thermaltake Toughpower 750W W0131RU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817153043
Burning smell, quite a few RMA's in the three pages of reviews I read.


Recommended PSU's from HOOfan 1.

Corsair HX750/HX850:
- Reviews of the 8509 were very good. One review mentioned a Con as "it isn't megan fox". I can appreciate the sentimate. The 750 had good reviews too, but I did see one complaint about the 20+4 Pin cable being too short in a 902. That doesn't bode well for my 1200. The 850 is in the running.

XFX Black Edition 850W:
- It got a nice review from jG. Though I have to agree with him...that green is loud. Plus, I'm not sure it'll go well with my intended blue glow.

Antec Signature 850W:
- Nice! It's an Antec so I'm happy with that. However....see next review.

Antec CP-850:
- Since I already know I'm going to use an Antec 1200 for my case, I was extremely happy to find jonnyGURU's review of both (case and psu...together and separate). I actually laughed out loud while reading the review, in two places. My favorite bit of quoted-ness was:

...Seriously. This thing is so overbuilt, it's scary. Five 60A rated parts for a combined 12V rating of 64A. Read that sentence again, so it sinks in. 300A of capacity for a 64A combined 12V limit. Who do they have working at Delta anyway, Tim "The Toolman" Taylor? Doc Brown perhaps? No wonder ripple was so low - these parts weren't even breathing hard at full power. -jonnyGURU

All that being said, the review showed me that the cables are long enough, the psu is strong enough, and it's made to fit in the 1200 without using the additonal plate on the backside. I may end up with the cp-850 for these reasons alone.


Thanks again for the response HOOfan 1!

Medicius

 

[HOOfan 1]

If you have the Antec 1200 case then get the CP-850. It is a great PSU at a great price and the 1200 is one of the few cases it fits in


My best suggestion to you though is DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO NEWEGG REVIEWS. 90% of them are BS

 

[yh125d]

Why would you buy the CP-850 when it it a proprietary form factor that can only be used in (3?) cases total? You're screwing yourself on retail value and/or reuse in a different case. Get the Truepower New

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: yh125d
Why would you buy the CP-850 when it it a proprietary form factor that can only be used in (3?) cases total? You're screwing yourself on retail value and/or reuse in a different case. Get the Truepower New

If he is using one of the cases that it will fit in...it is pretty much a no brainer...anyone who has actually tested the unit with a load tester will tell you that.

Why does it matter if it won't fit in another case if he has already stated that he wants to use the 1200...which it fits in?

It is a $120 PSU that performs as well as some $200 PSUs....how exactly is that being screwed on retail value????

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1

Originally posted by: yh125d
Why would you buy the CP-850 when it it a proprietary form factor that can only be used in (3?) cases total? You're screwing yourself on retail value and/or reuse in a different case. Get the Truepower New

If he is using one of the cases that it will fit in...it is pretty much a no brainer...anyone who has actually tested the unit with a load tester will tell you that.

Why does it matter if it won't fit in another case if he has already stated that he wants to use the 1200...which it fits in?

It is a $120 PSU that performs as well as some $200 PSUs....how exactly is that being screwed on retail value????

Sorry, meant resale value, not retail. Imagine trying to sell one on FS/FT when only people with one of three cases can use it properly?


As I said before, get the truepower new. $15 cheaper @ egg for the 750, better stability, better efficiency, also modular, NOT proprietary.... THATS the no brainer

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: yh125d

Sorry, meant resale value, not retail. Imagine trying to sell one on FS/FT when only people with one of three cases can use it properly?

it isn't a car...why should he care about resale value...especially if he never has any intention of selling it. I would say resale value is the last thing I consider when buying a PSU...except I don't consider it AT ALL

better stability

WRONG

Using Oklahoma Wolf's numbers

CP-850
2.7% load regulation on 3.3V
1.4% load regulation on 5V
1% load rgulation on 12V

tops out at 21mV of ripple at full load on 3.3V
tops out at 12mV of ripple at full load on 5V
tops out at 11.2mV of ripple at full load

Antec TPN 750
2.4% load regulation on 3.3V
2.8% load regulation on 5V
2% load regulation on 12V

~10mV of rippl on 3.3V and 5V rails
tops out at 25mV ripple on 12V

as far as load regulation goes...on the 5V and 12V the CP-850 is twice as stable.
As far as ripple suppresion goes...the CP-850 is twice as good at it as the TPN

better efficiency

by less than 1% at full range of loads

also modular

The CP-850 is also modular and has the same number of hardwired connectors


Like I said...anyone who has tested it with a load tester would suggest the CP-850 hands down....in fact Oklahoma Wolf has done it on numerous occasions.

 

[yh125d]

Efficiency for the TPN across 6 tests

84.3% (1.5% more)
85.9% (.9% more)
86.6% (1.7% more)
84.7% (.9% more)
83.1% (1.1% more)
76.6% (5.8% more)
84.2% (.9% more)

in the hot box

84.3% (1.9% more)
85.5% (.9% more)
85.8% (.8% more)
84.6% (1.2% more)
82.6% (1.5% more)
77.3% (8.2% more)
83.5% (.7% more)



I don't know where you're getting those ripple numbers on the TPN, cause they sure aren't stated (only number we're given is "better than 25mv"), but compare the oscillo results

Either way you have two extremely good PSUs. One is $15 cheaper and 100w lighter with slightly better efficience, one has a bit more power and 12v regulation but is the size of my head and only works in three cases. I know which one I'd buy (In fact, I know which one I DID buy)

 

[HOOfan 1]

Well I guess if resale possibilities matter to him then the TPN is the way to go....or something else...like PC P&C since there are plenty of goobers out there that don't know that there are PSUs out there as good as or better than PC P&C.

I think he likes the peace of mind knowing that the CP-850 has cables long enough to read.

I got the ripple numbers by looking at the scope shots...the interval is given.

 

[yh125d]

Cable lengths aren't that different. TPN has longer PCI-e cables, CP has longer ATX/EPS cables

 

[Medicius]

I opted for the CP-850. I don't know a lot about PSU's. But I do know I like Antec's PSU's - so from that point of view, both would have been ok. But, I like the idea of the additional 100w's. My future build leaves little room to spare in the wattage department if I utilize the 750w. Not sure if that matters...but...

...I built my current computer by using what was available at local shops and local big box chains. So while I did some basic research I still wasn't able to get the part I had researched and instead opted for one that, while I was in the shop, looked similar with marketing numbers etc.

This time around, I'm trying to plan for every contigency without going overboard. In the case of the PSU, Cable Length, Wattage, and Build Quality are important to me (that being said - I'm not sure which cable lengths would be better to have in a longer format. I am going to use the EVGA P55 FTW or EVGA P55 FTW SLI - but the overall board design is similar...so...). I also like that the PSU is part of the 80Plus program. In regards to the CP-850 specifically, I like that it is made to fit in the 1200 case. Heck, to use a regular sized PSU in the 1200, you have to install a plate to decrease the size of the hole. Since the 1200 is the case that I want to use regardless of my other choices, that could be important.

As to resale, much to my shame...I don't sell anything. Give it away, sure...sell it....<shiver>


Medicius

 

[Medicius]

I just wanted to thank you guys for taking the time to respond with your insights and opnions. I appreciate the help. As of earlier this morning, my CP-850 and 1200 shipped out from newegg. On top the decent savings, I got another $40 off because these two items are going as a combo. Woohoo! $40 more dollars to spend on my GPU or SC...or a dremel kit to really screw my 1200 up with...


Thanks again guys,

Medicius